conflicing advice. Can anyone help me???

[jadylasa]

Hi, sorry in advance...this may be a long one

Right...I currently have 2 of my own children in the under 5's and 1 part time mindee, who also falls in my under 1's catagory.

In september my dd, age 3, starts full time nursery, at school. I have asked a few people, (childminders, ofsted and ncma workers) where this leaves me with spaces. I have been told that:
a) a space opens up as soon as she's in full time nursery (sept '10).
or
b) a space opens up as soon as she turns 4 (march '11)
or
c) a spaces opens up as soon a she's in full time reception (sept '11)

I heard option a) from 2 people so took this one and have started advertising for a full time space available in Sept this year, today I have been told that it's option c), which scuppers all my plans.

I understand about it being term time only. but nursery or reception, she's not going to be here, what difference does it make?



any advice gratefuly recieved, thank you.

[sweets]

im afraid it is option c, she is not classed as an over 5 till in full time reception class. i suppose it make s the difference is that if she was ill or nursery was closed then she would be with you and therefore you would be over your numbers.

[PRINCESSDAISYFLOWER]

agree with sweets,

Will not count as your over 5's untill she is in full time education at the age of four as she will then be classed as a rising 5

[jadylasa]

I understand what you are saying about school closure (although it has never happened in the 6 years my other children have attended) but illness...if she wasn't well enough to be in school, then I wouldn't be working, what do other parents do when their child is sick or school closes?! They call in work to say their child is ill or school is closed.

I just seems such a waste of a space when 12 months down the line my situation wont have changed, I will still have a child away from me between 9 and 3:30, but I am suddenly able to have another child.

[Carol M]

Yes C.
Ring Ofsted to clarify for you and they will answer your queries.
carol xx

[huggableshelly]

why not request for a variation with ofsted to care for 4 under 5's at any one time. You will have to fill out a form stating how you can meet each child's needs so here you would state own child will bein f/t nursery between the hours of blah and blah, if child is off nursery due to illness or bad weather you will beable to provide the same are to all children and will still be able to get out for fresh air/outdoor play throughout the day.

[jadylasa]

Thats great advice thanks I will do this, but I thought they only gave variations for continuity of care, i.e. new sibling or change in hours etc? I haven't filled my daughters space yet! It's all so confusing

[huggableshelly]

it is always worth trying, providing you can prove that you can provide the care for the children which you can.
variations for 5-8's are easier to gain than under 5's but give it a go

[jadylasa]

just had confirmation via a phone call from Ofsted. it's option b) once they are 4 and have the full 10 sessions a week (mon - fri am and pm sessions) so looks like I have to change all my adverts to say full time space available from March at least i don't have to wait till sept

[sarah707]

just had confirmation via a phone call from Ofsted. it's option b) once they are 4 and have the full 10 sessions a week (mon - fri am and pm sessions) so looks like I have to change all my adverts to say full time space available from March at least i don't have to wait till sept

Please get that in writing from Ofsted.

My understanding has always been a child must be in full time school... not pre-school or nursery... actual reception class at school.

Hth

[jadylasa]

Yes I'm going to, I need a variation anyway as my other dd has now turned 9 freeing up an after school space, so I need to write to them for this so I'll ask for confirmation on this too. the lady I spoke to on the phone is the same one I spoke to this morning who thought it was reception too, she phoned me to let me know that she'd spoke to someone at ofsted dealing with variations/spaces etc and told me she said it was when they were 4, even in nursery as long as it's full time. xx

[mama2three]

I agree with sarah , you need that in writing to cover yourself - as Im sure other inspectors would say C , you dont want to end up over your numbers through their inconsistency should you be inspected etc...

[jadylasa]

yes I will get in writing also. thanks. xx

[CHUNKY MONKEY]

Good luck, I hope it's option b. Keep us informed

[coffee-time]

hi i had my pre reg in january, my son is 4 and was in full time nursery at the time, i was told that as soon as he started full time reception (still age 4 but a rising age 5)i could give them a call to let them know and they would up my numbers for under 5s. think that makes sense! trouble is things seem to change without anyone knowing so this might not still apply?
hope it helps anyway

[Mouse]

Please get that in writing from Ofsted.

My understanding has always been a child must be in full time school... not pre-school or nursery... actual reception class at school.

Hth

The Ofsted info says about 4 and 5 year olds "in full time education", but doesn't say that it has to be reception class.

I suppose you could have a child who is 4 in August starting school in Sept. They'd count as a rising 5 even though they were only just 4.
Then you've got a child who is 4 in March & attending full time nursery, they'd be only just 4 (ie. the same as the one going to school) & attending for the same number of sessions, so should count the same. Does that make sense?

[jadylasa]

Yes mouse, it does and it's my point too. the eldest child in nursery may only be 1 day younger than the youngest child in reception, and the eldest child in nursery could be a full 12 months older than the youngest child in his class. At ages 3,4 and 5, thats a big difference! Then you have to concider the stage of the child too, you get some 5 year olds who HAVE to be in full time education, but are not easy to settle/still quite immature/still having toilet trouble etc, and you can get some 3 year olds that are more than ready for full time school, the home environment is no longer enough for them/always been sociable/have a drive to learn more/be like older siblings! (My dd 3 yr old falls into the latter catagory!)

I will keep you posted! xx

[hectors house]

I think they have to be attending 10 sessions a week in full time education - this means School not Nursery - I once had a complaint issued against me for taking on a child at short notice who was still only doing the morning and afternoon settling in, while I still had on somedays (due to changing shift patterns) 3 under 5's. I got the complaint dropped but that is another story!

How long are your part time sessions - ours in Somerset are only until after Oct half term - so not too bad, waiting back for my variation for this year. I have pleaded that it is continuaty of care as otherwise I will have to give notice to the rising five in order to take on a new baby -

The rising 5 is the past (as I don't do school pick ups and will only have him in the holidays) the new baby is the future - and no I'm not a heartless b---h i'm just letting Ofsted think I am!

Good luck with filling your space, not sure you can apply for a variation unless you have an enquiry as they ask for child's name and date of birth on the ratio grid.

[aly]

My daughter just turned 3..{aug}
she started nursery am yesterday.
next year she will turn 4 in aug, sept she will be full time and classed as 5 as she is full time 10 sessions so then she is in my upper age.