Variation to 3 under 5s rule

**Twinmadhouse** · 10-08-2010, 02:34 PM

Hi

My childminder cares for one under 5 on a Monday. My Son who is one will be going to her from 8.45 to 2.30pm. She hoped to be allowed to collect my 3 year old twins from school at 11.45 and care for them until 2.30pm.

That means less than 3 hours with 4 under 5s per week. Ofsted have refused her the variation.

We're trying to get to the bottom of it with them but I feel that we may need to lodge a complaint to get it resolved.

Does anyone have such a variation? The more examples I can demonstrate I feel sure the stronger my case. I thought siblings was one of the reasons to make such an exception.

Daniel will be asleep for 2 of those hours anyway!!!! AAAARRRGGGHHHH!! I bet you can imagine how difficult it is to get a childminder to take 3 children in a small village anyway.

HELP! I really don't want to lose my job

**beccas** · 10-08-2010, 02:53 PM

hey are very reluctant to do this variation unless the a sibling has been in the care of the childminder before the sibling cam along iyswim..

**Bushpig** · 10-08-2010, 02:57 PM

I have a variation due to siblings, but the older child was in my care already, and the variation was granted for continuity of care for the younger child.

OFSTED don't allow a variation for new business as far as I am aware. This doesn't stop you from investigating it more fully though. Good luck

**snufflepuff** · 10-08-2010, 02:58 PM

I've not been through it myslef so dont know, but my understanding of it is that you could have her care for your twins (plus the one she already has which is still within her numbers) and then apply for a variation for her to begin caring for your son. Therefore its continuity of care to allow all 3 siblings to be cared for together. BUT if she has already been refused im not sure that going about it in a different way would work. And even if it did, you would be without childcare for your son until her amended certificate arrived.

**carol cameron** · 10-08-2010, 03:00 PM

not sure if i have read your post correctly but has your youngest one already started to attend the childminders setting ? if not that could be why the variation has been refused as it is usually only available to offer continuity of care for children already attending and not those due to start. if that is the case it may help to start your little one with the childminder and then apply for the variation. you would then meet the criteria regarding siblings, i think. Worth checking out though.i have had several variations for 4 under 5's over the years when circumstances have changed for children i was already caring for eg change in mums working hours/days. however , i also know of childminders who have been turned down when they have requested a similiar variation for a new child to start attending.good luck

**sillysausage** · 10-08-2010, 03:16 PM

As mentioned variation requests are normally only granted for the following reasons
- to provide continuity of care for existing mindees (when for instance a parent changes job or shifts so the timing of the provided care changes, or often in Sept, whilst reception age children are attending school part-time and can't yet be counted in the older age group for ratios).
- to allow the minder to care for the sibling of an existing mindee.

I would, in your circumstances, be prepared to contest their decision if you can show that-
a) you have no alternative choice of childcare (this could be due to lack of childcare places locally that are prepared to collect your twins from school and offer what is a relatively short period of care)
b) you do not wish to split your family up.
c) illustrate how it might cause you financial hardship (here I'm thinking that private day nurseries will sometimes collect from state nurseries but they usually charge a lot for the privilege and would charge for full sessions too)

I would really play on the breaking up a family issue as it is extremely difficult to find childcare for 3 siblings under 5yrs.

**MAWI** · 10-08-2010, 03:30 PM

I have a varaiation for four, but I had her elder siblings on roll for several months and they saw this as continiuty of care.

**Mouse** · 10-08-2010, 03:53 PM

This is what it says on the Ofsted information sheet:

It is only in certain time-limited arrangements for particular children that we may agree that you may care for more than three children in the early years age group. We will only consider such requests for time-limited arrangements involving:
 siblings where one child from a family is already with you
 continuity of care for children already with you.

We will not allow this type of request:
 at the point of registration or before a first inspection
 for siblings that are not already with you where you do not have sufficient spaces to take them on. In very exceptional circumstances we may consider this if we judge that you are suitable and the local authority can confirm that there are no other available local places with another childminder.

The bit I highlighted might be useful if you can show that there is no other suitable childcare available.

**cuffleygirl** · 10-08-2010, 04:17 PM

Could your childminder 'nanny' out of your house whilst this is contested? If she already cares for one sibling surely it can be continuity of care? and has already been said if childcare options are limited in your area and she already has a relationship with your children, it would be in the best interest of your children (and you) for this to be built on - you need a well worded letter of contest to Ofsted - if you write on, we on this forum would happily comment or suggest options that may help you.

I can't understand why it hasn't been granted, could be someone at Ofsted didn't understand what was asked for or it didn't have accompanying risk assessments etc - or simply they were having a bad hair day!

**jaja** · 10-08-2010, 04:19 PM

why dont you start the 3 year old twins and then wait a couple of weeks (settlin in period) then apply and say that the other childcare has been let down and now you need the cover to start immediatley... worth a try... i know its a bit sneeky but it would keep all your children together......

or do you need the childcare to start for all three now?

not sure if i have helped with this or not

xxxxx

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 10-08-2010, 04:40 PM

I think the childminder needs to go back to Ofsted and ask to speak to an area supervisor and explain that she lives in a small village and to find a childminder for all 3 is hard. Play on the twins as you don't want to split the family up.

**Twinmadhouse** · 10-08-2010, 08:02 PM

Thanks for all your advice. Really helpful.

We spent the afternoon on the phone and laid it on thick about lack of childcare and me losing my job (all of which was true) and thankfully spoke to a human being there. He chased it all through with the right people for us, was great at phoning back and keeping us updated and it has...phew....been agreed to!