DM or EYO?...the choice is yours

[Simona]

It has been confirmed that DM is to stay alongside Early Years Outcomes...neither are statutory so you can choose to use both or neither.

The confusion has not been very welcome at a time we are preparing for a new inspection framework but now we know EYO has not replaced DM

Please read this to be updated and if necessary print it and show the inspector in case she should tell you otherwise...inspector have had different instructions for inspections so they now consult EYO but this does not mean they will tell any cm or provider they are wrong by using DM

Hope this helps
Development Matters still current | Early Education

[Rick]

It has been confirmed that DM is to stay alongside Early Years Outcomes...neither are statutory so you can choose to use both or neither.

The confusion has not been very welcome at a time we are preparing for a new inspection framework but now we know EYO has not replaced DM

Please read this to be updated and if necessary print it and show the inspector in case she should tell you otherwise...inspector have had different instructions for inspections so they now consult EYO but this does not mean they will tell any cm or provider they are wrong by using DM

Hope this helps
Development Matters still current | Early Education

Thanks Simona.....am I to glean from this that should we continue to use DM statements in our observations we SHOULD not be criticised by inspectors?

[Simona]

Thanks Simona.....am I to glean from this that should we continue to use DM statements in our observations we SHOULD not be criticised by inspectors?

Inspectors cannot criticise how we observe and plan or what document we use to assess the Outcomes we want children to achieve....their new inspection instructions is to check the EYO to see how children are getting to the outcomes...that is what I understand from reading experts' views.

Both documents can be used or not...as you see fit
Inspectors can only judge that we are being effective in getting children to achieve.
The message about DM or EYO is now being spread to the sector so providers can continue to use whichever they find more useful but without DM it maybe a bit difficult to those with little knowledge of development to be effective planners!

[tas]

Thank you! I'll be printing it out

[sarah707]

I am getting thoroughly fed up of this.

Early Education are desperately clinging on to what they have written - and I honestly don't blame them - it is excellent guidance material. And that blog you are linking to has had more updates and changes to it than I have ever seen!!!!

However, childminders need to know what to use and Nursery World are clear that DfE have made an informed decision to reduce the paperwork burden by providing us all with the Early Years Outcomes.

So are Early Education now saying that DfE, Ofsted and Nursery World are ALL wrong?

Ridiculous! And something we do not need at this time with everything else that is going on

Our advice remains as it always has been - EYO is a slimmed down version of Development Matters. It is guidance. It is what Ofsted inspectors are currently asking for!!!

Development Matters is full of good practice. Continue using it alongside EYO ....

Now can we move on to the more important things worrying childminders? This is deflecting from the main issues - threats to us from all sides and the need to offer support and help to everyone as agencies try to convince us we cannot do our jobs without them taking a chunk of our hard earned money

Thank you.

[Simona]

I am getting thoroughly fed up of this.

Early Education are desperately clinging on to what they have written - and I honestly don't blame them - it is excellent guidance material. And that blog you are linking to has had more updates and changes to it than I have ever seen!!!!

However, childminders need to know what to use and Nursery World are clear that DfE have made an informed decision to reduce the paperwork burden by providing us all with the Early Years Outcomes.

So are Early Education now saying that DfE, Ofsted and Nursery World are ALL wrong?

Ridiculous! And something we do not need at this time with everything else that is going on

Our advice remains as it always has been - EYO is a slimmed down version of Development Matters. It is guidance. It is what Ofsted inspectors are currently asking for!!!

Development Matters is full of good practice. Continue using it alongside EYO ....

Now can we move on to the more important things worrying childminders? This is deflecting from the main issues - threats to us from all sides and the need to offer support and help to everyone as agencies try to convince us we cannot do our jobs without them taking a chunk of our hard earned money

Thank you.

I agree Sarah...Cms need to know what to use and the message is now clear ...use DM or EYO or both ...or neither.
It is an individual choice based on our personal judgement and that has been a clear message from the start: use it alongside EYO

I fail to understand why anyone should be confused...inspectors use EYO and we can use both to observe, plan and assess
EYO is the Unique Child without EE and PR...without boasting about my knowledge/experience I would find it difficult to use just that document and, in my view, it would not reduce 'paperwork' but increase it as I would have to evidence how I get to assess progress without referring to DM?

CMs need to look at both documents and decide what is best for them
Nursery World did not write the article...Engel did and it is a shame we cannot ALL access it to discuss unless we subscribe to their forum.
I have posted this in LinkedIn and many well known experts have now read the article but their message is clear: EYO has not replaced the DM.

I have not heard of any agency trying to convince us we cannot do our job...there has been no reporting of this, would you share where these discussions are taking place?
CMs have had invitations to attend agencies' meetings to give them an idea of what package they should be developing for us based on our suggestions?
That to me is a bit different...Cms must be confident to say they want to remain independent

At some point some may want to join an agency...that is their prerogative... while others will remain independent for as long as that is possible

[loocyloo]

so back to the intial statement ...

we can use either ... I use a printed out copy of just the unique child statements from DM to highlight/date/annotate etc. I was going to amend that to match EYO ... do I need to? or can I keep with it, as long as I have a copy of EYO as well?

I might just make the few amendments and be done with it!

[bunyip]

Sorry, am I missing the point (again) ?

2 different non-statutory documents which might provide a useful tool, depending on the individual's way of working. So why not use them if they help and use something else if they don't?

Like we all have to keep our settings clean and hygienic to fulfil a regulatory standard. But that doesn't require a debate about whether I use Cillit Bang, Flash, or Wilko's own brand.

[FussyElmo]

I agree Sarah...Cms need to know what to use and the message is now clear ...use DM or EYO or both ...or neither.
It is an individual choice based on our personal judgement and that has been a clear message from the start: use it alongside EYO

I fail to understand why anyone should be confused...inspectors use EYO and we can use both to observe, plan and assess
EYO is the Unique Child without EE and PR...without boasting about my knowledge/experience I would find it difficult to use just that document and, in my view, it would not reduce 'paperwork' but increase it as I would have to evidence how I get to assess progress without referring to DM?

CMs need to look at both documents and decide what is best for them
Nursery World did not write the article...Engel did and it is a shame we cannot ALL access it to discuss unless we subscribe to their forum.
I have posted this in LinkedIn and many well known experts have now read the article but their message is clear: EYO has not replaced the DM.

I have not heard of any agency trying to convince us we cannot do our job...there has been no reporting of this, would you share where these discussions are taking place?
CMs have had invitations to attend agencies' meetings to give them an idea of what package they should be developing for us based on our suggestions?
That to me is a bit different...Cms must be confident to say they want to remain independent

At some point some may want to join an agency...that is their prerogative... while others will remain independent for as long as that is possible

These experts are they from ofsted or the Dfe?

If not then their opinion doesn't matter really anymore than our opinions do on which one to use

[Simona]

These experts are they from ofsted or the Dfe?

If not then their opinion doesn't matter really anymore than our opinions do on which one to use

Fussy Elmo...they are well know experts, trainers, consultants and people from LAs...I have also emailed a few myself
Do join LinkedIn just to read their comments and take it up with them...no point in shooting the messenger!
And there are many out there who can be contacted to discuss this
I have done my best to get this clarified and shared it here....CMs can use what they like...that is the point...carry on with DM or use EYO or use both or neither if we have other sources to help us.
It is our decision in the end
I have decided to use both...start with DM and then check EYO when I come to assess but I will have both documents ready at inspection

Sorry Bunyip I am missing your point...yes it is rather strange that we have 2 non statutory documents...I'd like to know who came up with the bright idea but am not in the DfE's mind...the only thing I have noticed is different is the order of the 3 Prime Areas in EYO: CL is first then PD and then last PSED...maybe just coincidence?
I also understand Ofsted have been asked to clarify...we live in hope!

Loocyloo...whatever works for you and, in my view, whatever gives you the confidence to discuss your planning, obs and assessment with the inspector
If you use DM you can look at what a child could do and match it with your EE or PR...so the resources you would use and the support you would give that child...also link to CoEL

The only alteration I am making is in the SEF where I will state I will consult both documents...otherwise I feel no need to change anything...but that works for me not everyone else.

I am sorry this document has created so much confusion and even more cross that it could have been announced prior to 4 November when the new framework came in and we could have had time to discuss in advance.

[sarah707]

With respect to all the experts you have consulted Simona the 'Evaluation schedule for inspections of registered early years provision' - Ofsted document 120086 - does not mention Development Matters.

That is all I need to know.

If Ofsted inspectors are being told to use Early Years Outcomes to judge me and the quality of my provision then I am not risking my grade (and everything that goes with it) by having the wrong document in the children's files...

I am not advising other childminders to use a document that has been removed from the evaluation schedule either.

It has taken me a little bit of time and ink to print EYO for each child's file... it has taken me a little longer to check through and write starting points into the new EYO I have printed...

It has been a very worthwhile exercise because I have spotted a number of areas of learning I can focus on and chat to parents about over the coming weeks.

[Simona]

With respect to all the experts you have consulted Simona the 'Evaluation schedule for inspections of registered early years provision' - Ofsted document 120086 - does not mention Development Matters.

That is all I need to know.

If Ofsted inspectors are being told to use Early Years Outcomes to judge me and the quality of my provision then I am not risking my grade (and everything that goes with it) by having the wrong document in the children's files...

I am not advising other childminders to use a document that has been removed from the evaluation schedule either.

It has taken me a little bit of time and ink to print EYO for each child's file... it has taken me a little longer to check through and write starting points into the new EYO I have printed...

It has been a very worthwhile exercise because I have spotted a number of areas of learning I can focus on and chat to parents about over the coming weeks.

Sorry Sarah...I think we are talking cross purposes here and I give up
let cms decide what they want to do
No one ever said that DM is still in the Evaluation...we know inspectors do not use it any more but that does not mean we cannot use it ourselves for planning alongside EYO...that is what those people are suggesting

As you are on LinkedIn maybe you could ask them to clarify.

In addition I emailed Ofsted Principal Officer last week...posted her comment here on what she explained is happening about DM and EYO...
It was totally ignored but I think I can trust her to say what is right...my decision is to use both and I will answer on inspection day.

Just to clarify ...I have not advised anyone to do anything...I have said all along the choice rests with us...cms can make up their minds what they want to do.

[bunyip]

I don't think the documents have caused half as much confusion as this thread might have done.

I also think it doesn't help when CM's receive (as I have) a pdf of EYO from the local pacey office with a covering emailing stating that "Ofsted expects" to see us using it. Sorry, but I expect pacey to stand up to Ofsted (if they are indeed pushing non-statutory guidance as an "expectation") rather than serving as a mouthpiece for Ofsted.

So, the choice rests with us. I think we knew that prior to this thread. It's just a "clarification" that has risked making things far less clear. I'm mighty relieved that a lot of maybe new and impressionable CMs have not got involved and thereby avoided becoming utterly confused.

[Simona]

I don't think the documents have caused half as much confusion as this thread might have done.

I also think it doesn't help when CM's receive (as I have) a pdf of EYO from the local pacey office with a covering emailing stating that "Ofsted expects" to see us using it. Sorry, but I expect pacey to stand up to Ofsted (if they are indeed pushing non-statutory guidance as an "expectation") rather than serving as a mouthpiece for Ofsted.

So, the choice rests with us. I think we knew that prior to this thread. It's just a "clarification" that has risked making things far less clear. I'm mighty relieved that a lot of maybe new and impressionable CMs have not got involved and thereby avoided becoming utterly confused.

Thank you Bunyip for your comments...did you email Pacey for clarification? they appear to be selling a package with EYO (you pay for the document to be sent to you) included in the rest of the EYFS documents...make sure you check!
the confusion seems to be lodged in this forum not anywhere else where people are very clear what the next steps are and what our choice is....

You say 'the choice rests with us' ...I think my original thread is self explanatory: DM or EYO ...the choice is yours!
It would help if you would state what is you are not clear about?

This may help...created by one of the consultants who responded to my email about clarification on what to use
KEEP CALM AND LOVE Development Matters - KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON Image Generator - brought to you by the Ministry of Information!

[jax clinch]

I'm just concerned about all those childminders who aren't members of sites like this..... Who I keeping them up to date. We have no development officer to update us, I only know about the changes from following comments on here!!!! When was ofsted going to tell us about these changes...... Or have they and I've missed it !!!!!!!!!

[Mrs Scrubbit]

I'm just concerned about all those childminders who aren't members of sites like this..... Who I keeping them up to date. We have no development officer to update us, I only know about the changes from following comments on here!!!! When was ofsted going to tell us about these changes...... Or have they and I've missed it !!!!!!!!!

Likewise xx

[bunyip]

Thank you Bunyip for your comments...did you email Pacey for clarification? they appear to be selling a package with EYO (you pay for the document to be sent to you) included in the rest of the EYFS documents...make sure you check!
the confusion seems to be lodged in this forum not anywhere else where people are very clear what the next steps are and what our choice is....

You say 'the choice rests with us' ...I think my original thread is self explanatory: DM or EYO ...the choice is yours!
It would help if you would state what is you are not clear about?

This may help...created by one of the consultants who responded to my email about clarification on what to use
KEEP CALM AND LOVE Development Matters - KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON Image Generator - brought to you by the Ministry of Information!

I have already emailed pacey: not for clarification, but rather to express my profound disappointment. They should be challenging Ofsted's attempts to turn non-statutory material into "expectations" of CMs, but instead pacey choose to perpetuate this nasty habit that Ofsted have of setting requirements when they should stick to enforcing those properly set by the DofE.

What is it I'm not clear about? I'm not clear about the point of this thread. I'm not clear about the need to clarify something that is already clear. I'm not at all clear about how it helps to start with something we already know (or should know if we bother to keep an ear to the ground and not just hope to be spoon-fed by DO's et al) only to muddy the waters with a statement such as, "The confusion has not been very welcome..." In all honesty, I fail to see where the confusion was until the OP planted the seed in readers' minds. Additionally, I'm not clear about what these so-called 'experts' and LinkedIn lurkers have to do with the price of tomatoes.

[Simona]

I have already emailed pacey: not for clarification, but rather to express my profound disappointment. They should be challenging Ofsted's attempts to turn non-statutory material into "expectations" of CMs, but instead pacey choose to perpetuate this nasty habit that Ofsted have of setting requirements when they should stick to enforcing those properly set by the DofE.

What is it I'm not clear about? I'm not clear about the point of this thread. I'm not clear about the need to clarify something that is already clear. I'm not at all clear about how it helps to start with something we already know (or should know if we bother to keep an ear to the ground and not just hope to be spoon-fed by DO's et al) only to muddy the waters with a statement such as, "The confusion has not been very welcome..." In all honesty, I fail to see where the confusion was until the OP planted the seed in readers' minds. Additionally, I'm not clear about what these so-called 'experts' and LinkedIn lurkers have to do with the price of tomatoes.

Oh Bunyip...while I like your comments and always hope to carry on an adult conversation I find your cynicism off putting at times...you are quite negative and, if you say there is no confusion, why have you emailed pacey? to express your disappointment? or for guidance on what to do? you appear to have approached your DO as well...so you are not quite sure yet?

I have no permission to name those who I have approached for advise and who gave their time to reply...am I to assume that even the top officer in Ofsted does not satisfy you with her reply? maybe you should email her directly

those people are not lurkers and I find your comment very unhelpful for those fairly new as cms...however...as Sarah is able to read their comments on the Nursery World LinkedIn page...she will find some very useful additional comments this morning.

The confusion was that cms here were being guided towards the EYO when in fact that is not what they should do unless they want to.
There was confusion out there in the EY sector because many representatives asked Ofsted to clarify if DM had been replaced
Another clarification is that Ofsted do not set the 'requirements' ...the DfE sets the regulation and Ofsted simply inspect us.

I am sure you know what you are doing ...if not pacey will guide you...it is a shame that a simple gesture of info sharing and good practice on my part has turned into this where neither criticism nor cynicism were appropriate or welcome.
I hope cms will make an informed decision on what they choose to do....good luck!

[bunyip]

Oh Bunyip...while I like your comments and always hope to carry on an adult conversation I find your cynicism off putting at times...you are quite negative and, if you say there is no confusion, why have you emailed pacey? to express your disappointment? or for guidance on what to do? you appear to have approached your DO as well...so you are not quite sure yet?

I emailed pacey to express my disappointment, as stated. What I find "cynical" and "negative" is the fact that I write a factual statement about my actions and it is immediately disbelieved. So there is little point in me continuing in this discussion.

I have not approached my DO. Did I say that? No, I don't think I did. But then I never mentioned North and South until it was brought up as if I had.

I have no problem with criticism and debate. I only wish members would read and accept at least the factual elements of what I write instead of reading it and then doubting that I meant it - or putting words in my mouth.

As you seem determined to personalise this, I'm outta here.

[FloraDora]

I had my pre reg visit today and discussed this issue:

Inspectors have just had a round of training for the new inspection framework that came in on Nov 4th. The emphasis is that neither are statutory, but that her advice to me would be that if I continue to use DM ( and she likes it) then don't have the booklett out and make it a big part of your assessment planning process when talking to the Inspector as they were told that the main guidance now should come from the EYO. I pointed out the article from your link Simona and she said well currently she has not been told there is a change ....so any inspections she does until that information is changed officially to her will be looking at EYO.

So ....if you are inspected in the next few days..... Then either show you are using EYO or be prepared for a discussion so get some evidence of the change of heart to show.

Whilst I like the DM because of the suggestions it gives under enabling environments....I know from experience that some practitioners just use DM as a bible....and do everything it suggestd .and don't think out of the box for next steps or where to take the child/ how to challenge etc based on THE CHILD - I think this is the reasoning behind just presenting the Unique child bit as EYO and taking away the rest.