Possibly changing from Pacey to MM
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  1. #1
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    Default Possibly changing from Pacey to MM

    I've been childminding for nearly a year now and my NCMA membership/insurance is up for renewal. When I started to re-new online I was asked to tick a box to say I commit to 15 hours of training over the coming year - it's not alot & probably I will do 15 hours of training over the coming year but I'm not sure I'm happy to sign something saying I'm definately going to do that.... there doesn't seem to be an option to renew and not make that commitment. Also MM seems quite a bit cheaper.

    The thing is I've heard that if you use MM you need to use their contracts, is that true? I just bought a new pack from Pacey!

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    I did the whole 'should I change' when my insurance was up for renewal in May...I ended up sticking with PACEY however I think it's because I'm just comfortable with them as I've been with them for so long! There is a thread on here going over the different insurances and which one would be right for you...may be worth a look if you're considering changing...
    Membership & insurance options

    Sarah x
    Sarah, Bumble Beez x x

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    Oh and I don't know about the contract issue...sorry x

    Sarah x
    Sarah, Bumble Beez x x

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    If you swap from pacey to mm. Mm will still cover you if you carry on using pacey contracts.

    Im not sure pacey can say you have to do 15 hours training - this is something usually associated with networks. I have never heard of pacey requiring it :-D
    When someone tells you nothing is impossible, tell them to go slam a revolving door

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    You can use any contracts with MM as long as they are "legally worded". You can even write your own.

    I am insured with MM and use NCMA/Pacey contracts and when I rang MM they said it was fine. There is a 3 month period where contracts signed before you join MM cannot be claimed against (just to ensure that there isn't any problems before you move over IYSWIM)

    Pacey/NCMA want you to use their contracts to be able to use the full insurance against non payment cover otherwise they just advise.

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    The 15 hours that pacey require is CPD (continuous Professional Development)

    examples of CPD are:-
    •gaining a new qualification
    •workshop attendance
    •online learning
    •webinar training
    •conference attendance, including Regional Policy Forums
    •reading articles in trade magazines and the press
    •reviewing websites
    •professional discussions with peers, either in person or through on-line forums such as PACEY Local
    •talking to other professionals
    •peer observation
    •being an active member of a local group or committee (including PACEY Local and Regional Committees)
    •reading and reviewing books
    •voluntary work
    •preparing for your inspection.

    So even time spent on the forum is CPD

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    Quote Originally Posted by tulip0803 View Post
    The 15 hours that pacey require is CPD (continuous Professional Development)

    So even time spent on the forum is CPD
    What fantastic news...I've fulfilled my quota for the next few years then

    Sarah x
    Sarah, Bumble Beez x x

  9. #8
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    Thanks everyone for your replies & info

    I think I might have to stay with Pacey as I don't want to not be covered for 3 months, maybe I'll change over next year but start the MM insurance 3 months early & work towards changing to MM contract next year.

    I think you're right that it's CPD but still although CPD is something I do all the time I'd rather not be held to proving it by my insurance provider/childminding support group!! Seems a bit odd.

    If I don't document my CPD will my insurance be invalid?

    Thanks again everyone xx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anacrusis View Post
    Thanks everyone for your replies & info

    I think I might have to stay with Pacey as I don't want to not be covered for 3 months, maybe I'll change over next year but start the MM insurance 3 months early & work towards changing to MM contract next year.

    I think you're right that it's CPD but still although CPD is something I do all the time I'd rather not be held to proving it by my insurance provider/childminding support group!! Seems a bit odd.

    If I don't document my CPD will my insurance be invalid?

    Thanks again everyone xx
    You will be covered for PLI. It is purely the claims against unpaid childcare and if you are not having problems with a parent before you join MM then you would be fine. Another option is to renew all contracts when you change over, they should be renewed at least every 12 months any way.

    Not sure about Pacey CPD and insurance you would need to ask them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anacrusis View Post
    Thanks everyone for your replies & info

    I think I might have to stay with Pacey as I don't want to not be covered for 3 months, maybe I'll change over next year but start the MM insurance 3 months early & work towards changing to MM contract next year.

    I think you're right that it's CPD but still although CPD is something I do all the time I'd rather not be held to proving it by my insurance provider/childminding support group!! Seems a bit odd.

    If I don't document my CPD will my insurance be invalid?

    Thanks again everyone xx
    Have a read of this. It should explain why the CPD question is asked.

  12. #11
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    Thanks Tulip & Manjay. Manjay, the link isn't working for me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anacrusis View Post
    Thanks Tulip & Manjay. Manjay, the link isn't working for me...
    Sorry, forgot we like to star out links. Check out the professional standards information on Pacey's website and it will confirm why you are being asked the CPD question.

  14. #13
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    The CPD required by pacey is not to do with your insurance ...it is to access different levels of m'ship:
    Member, Affiliate, Fellow and Ambassador.

    The higher the level the more CPD hours you have to input...for Ambassador I think it is 25 per year which amounts to 1/2 hour per week...as you say there are many ways to clock up your CPD

    This is part of the Professional Occupational Standards introduced by pacey which replaced the previous ncma standards

    I recalled being told you need to show evidence of CPD to inspectors but I am not sure this is what they look for...anyone can correct me.

    Just in case they do want to see it I started a simple table logging the hours of CPD....often I can clock up 25 hours in just a month by reading publications, updating to new reforms, talking to other cms, support on the forum, reading all DfE stuff and Ofsted's too...and any info sharing from the LA
    I also print the form and put it in the parents' info pack so they are aware how I keep up with all the changes

    A log of CPD is a reflection exercise: what did you do, when or why and the outcome from the action...Mrs O should be pacified!

    Both PLA and MM do not require you to have their own contract ...you can use anyone or your own if preferred

  15. #14
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    i'm just in the process of changing to MM as i feel you don't get anything different with Pacey apart from it £30 more a yr

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    I just renewed with pacey as didn't have time to look at others I think more people are changing to mm as they are cheaper not sure who are better though as I've heard pro' s and cons with both xx

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    I love the Professional Development - no more Ofsted SEF for one and tick boxes in the basic level for another

    Yes overall the cost is more expensive but the insurance is cheaper and it is different cover, so compare both before you change.
    Debbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaz26 View Post
    I just renewed with pacey as didn't have time to look at others I think more people are changing to mm as they are cheaper not sure who are better though as I've heard pro' s and cons with both xx
    I hate this. Pacey are half the price of MM for Public Liability Insurance. It is just that you have to be a member of Pacey to take advantage of the cheaper insurance and in order to do that you have to pay a fee.

    They can not be compared as it is like comparing Apple and Pears.

    Pacey is a membership organization that works for the benefit of Childminders and offers discounts for things like Insurance and paperwork to its members.

    Morton Michel is an Insurance Broker who have no interest whatever in Childminders other than to sell them Insurance. They offer 'sweetners' to attract customers like paperwork (more expensive then Pacey for members), free online mags etc. However they do not represent or work for the good of childminders in any way.

    I love the Professional Development and do way more than 15 hours over the year. % hours is your First Aid and Child Protection. Remember if you have a meeting with other childminders that counts, going to a Forum meeting or a Conference, Reading a new book or the newest childcare mag all count towards the 15 hours. We all have to show CPD all the time now anyway.
    Last edited by rickysmiths; 14-05-2014 at 05:49 PM.

  20. #18
    Simona Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anacrusis View Post
    I've been childminding for nearly a year now and my NCMA membership/insurance is up for renewal. When I started to re-new online I was asked to tick a box to say I commit to 15 hours of training over the coming year - it's not alot & probably I will do 15 hours of training over the coming year but I'm not sure I'm happy to sign something saying I'm definately going to do that.... there doesn't seem to be an option to renew and not make that commitment. Also MM seems quite a bit cheaper.

    The thing is I've heard that if you use MM you need to use their contracts, is that true? I just bought a new pack from Pacey!
    Reading from the various replies it is clear we have no competition when it comes to PLI and each CM will speak up for her/his own association

    RSA offer PLI to 3 of the CMs associations...2 of those represent the whole sector Pacey and the Alliance...the other is a trade association and not for profit
    UKCMA is for profit and just for CMs ...little known about them or their membership and the only one using MM

    What we have is lack of competition...hence the reason why MM is so so expensive not just for PLI but for car and h/hold insurance

    With regards to the Pacey Professional Standards...this a tool for clocking CPD and training and to climb the hierarchy ladder within the association and gaining a different level of m'ship
    Easy to fill in but in my personal view not the same as the SEF

    Ofsted cannot access the Professional Standards like they do their own SEF which they read in advance and get a good feel of the setting and the CM
    Without the SEF the inspector would have to ask a lot of questions at inspection making the inspection a bit longer maybe?

    If I ever chose to do an alternative SEF I would still fill in the Ofsted one very simply and direct the inspector to my alternative which she can view at inspection
    I personally have a separate CPD alongside the SEF...the 2 are not the same

    One last thing is that many cms confuse training with CPD...as explained by Rickysmiths CPD is a vary wide umbrella that covers lots of things we do daily...if we recorded them all we would probably clock up thousands of hours yearly!

  21. #19
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    I have recently renewed my membership with PSLA and because they now offer childminders insurance too, I have got both and the total package is cheaper than Pacey and also includes several free distance learning packages from Educare

 

 

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