ratios for over 8s and after school

**mantz** · 19-12-2015, 09:53 AM

i am new here and I joined because I have a few questions. Ive been childminding for 2 years but only one child during the day. I recently expanded a little and have 2 afterschoolers 2 days and 2 before school 2 days in addition. I am getting overwhelmed with after school requests some of which are not practical but I wondered what the legalities are.

I have been searching teh site and there is loads of information on ratios for rising fives, under fives, under 8s which I understand I need to understand about over 8s really. Potentially though next september I could have my8 yo plus 2 x 8 year old mindees, 2 reception children (one mine) and 1 x year one and 1 x 2 year 2 plus the two children <5 I look after (sibling joining). Technically Id have 6 under 8 but Id be walking home with 9 children and at home I'd have my two secondary school kids so 11 for tea. this would be for about 2 hours two nights a week. My school run is 5 minutes with no roads but a couple of minor hazards so relatively easy to risk assess.

I need to check my insurance but can someone more experienced tell me if I'm insane considering this number? My gut feeling is to take 2 more on and say no to two. which gives me 7 walking home (including 2 in double buggy) and potentially 9 for tea. I have just trained my current aftershoolers to walk rather than run on - this is a work in progress. With 5 walkers I feel ok but 7 walking seems more unmanageable. Also how do your children deal with the chaos of afterschoolers in their space? Ive kept it to 2 days so my kids can have downtime.

**Rick** · 19-12-2015, 06:42 PM

Basically, you are allowed a max of 6 under 8. Out of those 6 a max of 3 under 5 and out of those a max of 1 under 1.

If a four or five year old is in full time education they count in your 5-8 age range.

There is no limit on over 8's only that required by your insurance.

Bear in mind some local authorities require planning permission if you exceed 6 children in total. See here Planning permission rules - ENGLAND

**BallyH** · 19-12-2015, 07:54 PM

My insurance allows me to have 12 children. 3days a week I walk home with 8 children. 6 under 8s and 1x8yr old and 1x9yr old. I make them walk in 2s. I don't have any in buggies. I am very strict as I feel we stick out like a sore thumb. I find it manageable and am getting enquiries for more children but have declined. I continually get comments about the number of children I have etc etc but they are a credit to me as they are very well behaved.
Once indoors, house rules, still apply and it works. It's exhausting as I'm always on guard incase something kicks off. But it's very rewarding and the children all get on, most of the time.

**chris goodyear** · 19-12-2015, 09:42 PM

As my daughter is my assistant we are allowed for insurance purposes 18! this sounds horrendous but sometimes (maybe once or twice a week) we do have maybe 14 but then a couple have football after school so by the time they are here some others have gone home. It is extremely busy but we love it and yes the kids all learn the rules inside the house and for walking home and they are all good, if not they get a severe reprimand (and not always from me but the other children) and you have to be really firm and not worry what other parents think when you are really strict while waiting to cross the cross the road for example, but I think it shows that the children are really safe with you even though you may have a large number. Let's be honest how many parents or other people when you are out with 3 or 4 and they say 'oh you have your hands full today' and you reply 'today is a quiet day'!!

**natlou82** · 19-12-2015, 10:10 PM

I'm pretty similar to moh, I personally feel that 8 is the max I feel happy with although I've had 10 here to help a parent out (manager needing additional days) I am a walking childminder and have a buddy system (older with younger) and I cook dinner for all. Yes it's hectic but only for a couple of hours - then collapse lol! Not for the faint hearted but it is doable :-)

**mantz** · 20-12-2015, 12:06 PM

Thanks very much for your replies. That's exactly what I'm looking for. Rick I'll check out that planning permission stuff and also my insurance allowance thanks for the pointer.

Moh, chris and natlou, thanks for sharing your experiences and ideas. My current afterschoolers used to run ahead but I'm getting better at controlling them and have explained why it's different with me than their parents because I have more children and need to keep them safe. This is working. I also have a system at home for controlling the chaos and now I have food preprepared am even finding time to do activities with them that ensure they don't get bored and start the fighting games which end in tears. I have decided that one evening will be a cooking class and the other one is only for 1.5 hours so those that want to can draw whilst the older boys love lego. It all seems to be a system of management and is really enjoyable at teh moment, I was a bit nervous if i could keep it up with more children.

I was also thinking of a buddy system as the boys will be one year older by then and will each have a younger sibling to look after. I was considering luminous vests or hats but I'm not sure that smacks of 'home care' and I doubt they'll wear them. Also I was wondering about one of those things they hold on to but given that we only walk up one road, over a bridge and down my road without any crossings so I think that's overkill. I personally think giving them responsibility will be better for their development than holding a weird bus thing. So glad to hear that it is working for you with a buddy system.

I'm tempted to take the extra two as I need to earn more and they will be for an hour so only the walk home really but the walk itself has been concerning me, I'm also worried it will creep to more time if mum needs more time at work. Its not till next school year so I think I'll check the legal issues then probably go up to 8 on walk home and turn the extras down. i feel similar to you natlou that 8 is probably the max for me as well. Hats off to you chris!! Any tips you have for keeping control would be great - most of these kids have been on playdates here so are used to a relaxed regime, it has been a bit of a transition to move to a more formal set up for afterschool care, now Ive done it once I guess I need to spell it out at the beginning and having a routine will help me do that. Thanks again for taking the trouble to reply.

**chris goodyear** · 20-12-2015, 07:28 PM

I think once you start it won't be as daunting as you imagine. Kids do learn pretty quick and because we are not their parents they usually are better behaved as shows when it's pick up time and they play the parents up big time! I 've found we are more strict with everything just because they are not our own children and they can't do the puppy dog eyes

When we are out and away from the school road where if they go in front of you, you lose them so that's one rule, then they can go ahead to the next lampost which then turns into a race and they must wait for me or my daughter to get there before they go again, and it goes without saying they do not go round the corner. If they ever forget the rules they get one warning and then it's hold my hand time or the buggy regardless of age. I had a challenging 8 year old who would frequently decide he wanted to run further than was allowed so for a whole week I had him hold the buggy with my hand over his until we got to my front door. He wasn't happy but learnt his lesson! I think if you are really strict with your rules from the word go then you can relax a bit as they all know what is expected of them and what happens if they don't!!

**natlou82** · 20-12-2015, 07:48 PM

Completely agree with Chris. All children know my rules and are actually really well behaved. Then on special occasions (like last Friday, Christmas break up) I treated them all to a party, cause they all deserved it :-)

**mantz** · 21-12-2015, 05:11 PM

Great this is all really reassuring. I do the lamp post/next bin thing with my own kids so do it with mindees but was worried I didn't look in control enough and wasn't sure if Id be too screechy doing it with 8! I need to explain the rules in a quiet moment rather than assume they know them. Am having a good time at the moment and don't want to spoil it. We had a party too on our last day, Im going to make it an end of term 'thing'.

**BallyH** · 21-12-2015, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by mantz

Great this is all really reassuring. I do the lamp post/next bin thing with my own kids so do it with mindees but was worried I didn't look in control enough and wasn't sure if Id be too screechy doing it with 8! I need to explain the rules in a quiet moment rather than assume they know them. Am having a good time at the moment and don't want to spoil it. We had a party too on our last day, Im going to make it an end of term 'thing'.

As Chris has already said I also tend to use one of my mindees as 'an example' if they misbehave. The others are always watching to see how I deal with it. So I've also held hands with a much older child but it is a perfect example of 'no nonsense and I mean business!'. This hasn't happened often. Now I just have to raise my eyebrow and everything falls into place.