'Time outs' are hurting children

Simona · 24-09-2014, 09:18 AM

I like the idea of 'time in' in this article.... many practitioners already use this technique rather than the isolation of 'time out'
What do you think?

Discipline and Parenting: Time-Out Needs a Time-Out

**mum67** · 24-09-2014, 10:27 AM

Umm another interesting thread.
From a parent's point of view the one thing it does forget is it is easy to say time in or time out is best for the child but a lot of the time the parent/carer may be under a lot of stress from everyday life or simply don't know what to do for the best.

I went on a parent course a few years ago and it was such an eye opener. I hadn't realised how much time I was giving to others and not my own children until then. I would visit this friend and that friend and take them shopping or whatever they needed to do during the day only to be racing home for pick from school and then rushing with making the tea. During this time my children would be trying to tell me about their day and ask me to do things with them or go park for a bit and I would be saying "one minute, one minute or not even really listening (how sad is that) while I cook away.

I would get really stressed with one of my son's he always seemed to be naughty and defiant, looking back I think he just wanted a bit of mum time and I couldn't see it and wasn't giving it to him like I should have.

Anyway this course showed you how to get back that quality time and bond with the children. I realised when I asked my son to do his bedroom how I would do it how frightening and over whelming that would be to him and just be thankful and praise him for whatever effort he made. We got stickers for good answers and joining in role play

me and another woman must have been in competition for who got the most stickers that day

I couldn't wait until home time to show my kids my stickers for 'good work' etc

yet before the course when they used to show me theirs and say it was for good work I would say "and so you should do good work anyway" only for their little faces to drop (What a ***** I must've seemed to my own kids) because that's what I thought I was meant to say as a parent (so misguided by my peers).

Anyway that course gave me and my kids back our 'family' I stopped being available for everyone else, tea was made before they got home and we could go to the park for an hour if we wanted after school or anywhere they wanted or do anything they wanted because I had taken back control of MY TIME and MY LIFE for my own kids and not somebody else and their unorganised and lazy life.

I know I've rambled again, but my point is although I see their point in the article there is other foundations that need addressing most times and I truly believe every parent should go on that course and I guarantee each and every one of them will get something positive from it.

I learned that most of us do with our children what our parents did with us or what other professionals suggest we should do with them regards control, punishment and/or behaviour issues instead of what's best for us and our own family and what suits and works for us.

We have been a very very happy family since then, we discuss things that are worrying us and talk about each others feelings. We have FUN together again.
Don't get me wrong we have had life issues that have tripped us up sometimes along the way but we get back up and work through it. I mentioned in another post once about one of my son's behaviour due to a very bad family incident and how the school helped me with him through it, no time out or such things but letting him express his feelings in the way they felt best suited him. It worked he is a happy confident lad again.

So to cut a long story short

and yes back to the post Time in may be a good thing but most times it needs a little bit more foundation work from the parent.

I know I strayed from the main issue but just wanted to put my view across.

**gwm** · 24-09-2014, 02:26 PM

Interesting take on 'Time out' but I think it is blown out of proportion. When I am unwell or upset....I like to be alone, with my own thoughts. The idea of somebody wittering on and trying to 'comfort' me would do my head in. I have found that my own children , if they get cross or annoyed about something, prefer to be left alone and then they reappear (when they are ready) and apologise or explain whatever is bugging them.
If a child behaves inappropriately here in my setting, I say 'I think you need to sit and think about what you have done'. They sit with me in the kitchen or wherever I am....after a few minutes, I ask them what they thought of their behaviour...whether it was a good or not a good choice and what they thought they should do about it. I don't believe this has any negative impact on the children's development. If the adult's approach is calm, age appropriate and consistant every child will learn how to behave appropriately.

**mum67** · 24-09-2014, 03:35 PM

gwm I was just putting my point of how a situation can be more than a simple time in and time out option. It's not always a simple matter of a child reflecting on what they have or not done but the article seems to point to that being the case.
I see your point on things as my nephew is like that he likes to be left alone if he is upset and gets really irritated if mum/dad don't leave him alone until he is ready or feels better.

**gwm** · 24-09-2014, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by mum67

gwm I was just putting my point of how a situation can be more than a simple time in and time out option. It's not always a simple matter of a child reflecting on what they have or not done but the article seems to point to that being the case.
I see your point on things as my nephew is like that he likes to be left alone if he is upset and gets really irritated if mum/dad don't leave him alone until he is ready or feels better.

Sorry, Mum67, was referring to Simona's link not your comment!

**mum67** · 24-09-2014, 08:07 PM

gwm I thought you meant because I'd waffled on

so I was just trying to explain why.
We'll leave it at they then

Simona · 24-09-2014, 08:41 PM

Again we differ in approach

I do not use time out by isolating a child or putting him on a step alone...it has never worked for me or the children
I do 'time in' because I feel some situations require we sit with a child and let them cool off before asking what the matter is and how I can help...
In the end the child has to understand that unacceptable behaviour will not be tolerated

With our own children I suppose it is ok to let them go away and be by themselves...there are no pressures there and plenty of time for them to reflect...a bit more difficult when something happens with our cared for children... time is short and the situation has to be diffused pretty quickly for peace to return!

**bunyip** · 25-09-2014, 08:43 AM

Well, surprise surprise.

Don't look now, but here comes the latest 'golden ticket' for all your behavioural woes.

Following the well-trodden way of these things, the last great cure-all (time out) is suddenly declared to be not only flawed but harmful, and is swept aside in a paean of praise for the latest fashionable craze from some know-all 'expert'.

It only remains to be seen how long it will be before the same happens to 'time in' ("ooh, it harms children cos it rewards unwanted behaviour, etc." or raises their expectations, or doesn't prepare them for Mr Wilshaw's love of detention without trial at school, etc.) Then 'time in' will fall by the wayside to be replaced by 'time on', 'time off', 'time up', time down', time over' or time-whatever the self-appointed 'experts' think of next.

Simona · 25-09-2014, 10:53 AM

Time out as been a method of guiding behaviour for many many years...as is the 'naughty step'...so not new...does it cure the problem?
Some use it ...others use other ways of dealing with the matter....that nanny on TV uses various methods... some questionable

If adults did something wrong would they like being given 'time out' rather than explain their feelings in a different way? so why apply it to children?

Experts can say what their opinion is but we have to put in practice what suits us best

The aim of sharing the link was to invite comments and share practice and our way of doing things

**gwm** · 25-09-2014, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by mum67

gwm I thought you meant because I'd waffled on

so I was just trying to explain why.
We'll leave it at they then

No problem. Waffle away. I enjoy reading it!

**jadavi** · 25-09-2014, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Simona

I like the idea of 'time in' in this article.... many practitioners already use this technique rather than the isolation of 'time out'
What do you think?

Discipline and Parenting: Time-Out Needs a Time-Out

I totally agree with this
Isolating a child should be outlawed imo.
We have a quiet chair where we sit with the child and talk about what happened.

**gwm** · 25-09-2014, 01:08 PM

As bunyip says, does it matter what we call it? The child is being removed from the situation and is been given the opportunity to think about their behaviour. It is, for a matter of minutes. Children have to take responsibility for their own behaviour and appreciate how their behaviour affects others. They have to figure it out for themselves. How else are they going to learn? If a toddler bites or hits another child, we remove them from the situation. Does removing them make them feel different? Humiliated? Isolated? Alone? Or, is it a prompt that says 'If I behave in that way...the fun stops!'

**tess1981** · 25-09-2014, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by gwm

As bunyip says, does it matter what we call it? The child is being removed from the situation and is been given the opportunity to think about their behaviour. It is, for a matter of minutes. Children have to take responsibility for their own behaviour and appreciate how their behaviour affects others. They have to figure it out for themselves. How else are they going to learn? If a toddler bites or hits another child, we remove them from the situation. Does removing them make them feel different? Humiliated? Isolated? Alone? Or, is it a prompt that says 'If I behave in that way...the fun stops!'

A voice of reason. Children are being set up for a great big fall in the real world. If a child displayed unwanted behaviour in my setting it's time out.. I either use a chair in the kitchen it a spot out in the hall. I tell them why they are there and tell them I will allow them off when time up and they then have to say sorry. As you say it gives them tine to reflect on what they did

**bunyip** · 25-09-2014, 05:30 PM

There are different children. There are different methods. Part of the problem is that the world seems to be looking for a single method that has to work for all children. I don't see any reason to write off any particular method so easily. How ridiculous.

What people find acceptable is extremely variable over time: from hanging a child for sheep-stealing, through physical punishment, to time-whatever-it-is-until-the-next-one.

A part of me worries that, in 20 years time, we'll all be in court for 'emotional abuse': for telling a child they've done something wrong when they've, er.....well........ done something wrong.

I find much of the 'behaviour' thing baffling. We are made to feel like it's child abuse to 'isolate' or use words like "naughty".

And yet I was horrified this morning's TV (I was only watching it for Carol the weather-girl

) to see Wilshaw's piece on behaviour in schools. Leave aside for the moment the fact that his latest dodgy document of a report is clearly intended to make schools in general look bad, so he can show how he's "achieved improvement" in a few months' time. He and others were praising schools who force children to parade the corridors in absolute silence, and give long detentions (up to 6pm, which suggests 2.5 hours on the average school day) for a child who dares to speak when they aren't spoken to. This resembles Stalinism/Hitlerian totalitarian states more than civil liberties and children's rights.

As Simona suggests, it's well worth making comparisons between how we treat adults and how we treat children. If adults were subject to detention without trial, or any sort of sanction for speaking in their workplace, there'd be a civil liberties outcry.

Simona · 26-09-2014, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by gwm

As bunyip says, does it matter what we call it? The child is being removed from the situation and is been given the opportunity to think about their behaviour. It is, for a matter of minutes. Children have to take responsibility for their own behaviour and appreciate how their behaviour affects others. They have to figure it out for themselves. How else are they going to learn? If a toddler bites or hits another child, we remove them from the situation. Does removing them make them feel different? Humiliated? Isolated? Alone? Or, is it a prompt that says 'If I behave in that way...the fun stops!'

I agree with you gwm...there is a call at the moment to change 'managing children's behaviour' to 'guiding behaviour'...starting with the EYFS
Children must understand why certain behaviour is unacceptable and that requires emotional intelligence....my view is that this cannot apply to a non verbal child so other methods can be used....especially older children who are able to reason.

What we call the method does not matter...the method does have an impact though and without looking at the ABC of behaviour many assumptions can be made

This a true story going back years and years and not related to CMs at all
There was boy in his teens who was regularly sent outside of the classroom for being disruptive to sit on a chair by himself...many people passed by but no one ever asked 'what is the matter...would you like to talk about it?'

One day the teacher asked the classroom: 'what is wrong with him'?
The boy's friend said: 'he has lost his mother'
if only the teacher had bothered to sit for one minute and ask the result would have been totally different and isolation and humiliation avoided

**ziggy** · 26-09-2014, 11:12 AM

I read an interesting article on Narcissistic Personality Disorder this week. apparently all the praise we heap on children these days is causing an increase of this disorder lol. We just cant win.

After a childhood of constant criticism I was always telling my daughter who beautiful she was. One day (aged about 6) she came home to tell me she had fallen out with her best friend. In her words "I am never speaking to that girl again, she said she is the most beautiful girl in the world but I told her she cant be because I am"

I think it is time all these tv 'experts' were ignored and we just used our common sense