Inspection costs for agencies and ICMs estimated by OFSTED

[Simona]

Sir Michael Wilshaw has replied to Lucy Powell MP and estimated the costs of inspections for Independent CMs and what it could be for an agency

£708 for ICMs
£ 6,975 fro an agency with 75 cms as members

http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedP...y_17_03_14.pdf

[christine e]

Let's hope they don't start thinking of passing the inspection cost on to independent childminders then - if they do then I can see that driving childminders to join agencies.

[Mouse]

Let's hope they don't start thinking of passing the inspection cost on to independent childminders then - if they do then I can see that driving childminders to join agencies.

Assuming that's the cost per inspection (not the annual cost), there's every chance an agency would end up costing a cm more than that over the same period of time, even if they did pass the full cost on to us.

I'd be interested to see how much it costs to inspect a nursery and what percentage of that cost is covered by their annual fee. I don't see how they'd be able to charge childminders a greater percentage than that paid by other types of provider.

[Simona]

More info here from the Alliance
Total rubbish that Ofsted inspects a CM every time she has a new child...Wilshaw is not giving out the truth...where does he get that idea from?

It is obvious that agencies are a cost cutting exercise and who will trust Truss that they will not be compulsory when Ofsted can save a packet which Wilshaw made very clear in July 2012
The inspectorate should not be allowed to manipulate the truth...agencies will not lower costs to parents and increase quality which is the reason for their introduction...savings is what it is about


https://www.pre-school.org.uk/sector...n-cost-savings

[MessybutHappy]

Sorry, but to me, as an ICM it basically says nothing at all! It's all estimated or based on things that have changed, so tells us, as ICMs the square root of nothing!!! If they do pass the cost on, we still don't know how much! Another example of a cleverly worded waste of paper.

Woops, that sounds awful, what a moaning mini I've become!

Sorry!

[SYLVIA]

What rubbish! Mr man supposedly in charge doesn't even know the facts about what he's in charge of. It very worrying I have said all along that all this change is just money saving for the government ad absolutely no good will come of it for anybody. Best start saving for my inspection then!

[Simona]

Assuming that's the cost per inspection (not the annual cost), there's every chance an agency would end up costing a cm more than that over the same period of time, even if they did pass the full cost on to us.

I'd be interested to see how much it costs to inspect a nursery and what percentage of that cost is covered by their annual fee. I don't see how they'd be able to charge childminders a greater percentage than that paid by other types of provider.

The cost of inspecting a nursery is £1400...quoted by Ofsted at the workshop I attended at the Alliance conference in June 2013 which I feedback here
She also said CMs cost around £800...which is the figure Truss gave me in August 2012 when I met her...so she was not far off
CMs pay £35...Cms on the EY register and nannies pay £104...nurseries much more....£35 is not sustainable for us

The important thing is to find out if we can remain individually inspected and pay that sum over 4 years...£800 is £200 per year which is £16.66 per month

I think the best way is to wait and see if the 4 associations meeting truss next week will come out with answers
In the end it is obvious this is to do with saving money to Ofsted but we must argue if we are prepared to stay independent

[dawn100]

Preschool and nurseries pay between £35 per year up to I believe £220 max depending on what year they were registered how many weeks per year they are open and how many days a week. So I don't see how they can charge icm more than nurseries or even the same yearly fee as nurseries when they cost almost double to inspect. Surely if they are going to renew our fees they need to look at preschool fees some of whom are paying the same yearly fee as us even though it costs more to inspect them as us.

The cost of inspecting a nursery is £1400...quoted by Ofsted at the workshop I attended at the Alliance conference in June 2013 which I feedback here
She also said CMs cost around £800...which is the figure Truss gave me in August 2012 when I met her...so she was not far off
CMs pay £35...Cms on the EY register and nannies pay £104...nurseries much more....£35 is not sustainable for us

The important thing is to find out if we can remain individually inspected and pay that sum over 4 years...£800 is £200 per year which is £16.66 per month

I think the best way is to wait and see if the 4 associations meeting truss next week will come out with answers
In the end it is obvious this is to do with saving money to Ofsted but we must argue if we are prepared to stay independent

[Kiddleywinks]

Surely if they are going to renew our fees they need to look at preschool fees some of whom are paying the same yearly fee as us even though it costs more to inspect them as us.

I would think the whole sector of childcare providers would need to be reviewed not just one area, otherwise it is (surprise surprise) unfair/unbalanced.

Can't wait for the actual figures - should be very interesting!

[Amandak28]

It's a joke! £93 each for agency childminders if they get 75.
How can that be justified? Surely the cost is the same to do an inspection on either one? Or am I missing the point? Lol agencies suck!

[Mouse]

It's a joke! £93 each for agency childminders if they get 75.
How can that be justified? Surely the cost is the same to do an inspection on either one? Or am I missing the point? Lol agencies suck!

Ofsted won't inspect agencies childminders. They are saying that is the amount it will cost to inspect the agency as a whole. Each childminder will then be inspected by the agency themselves (so no cost to Ofsted).

[hectors house]

Ofsted won't inspect agencies childminders. They are saying that is the amount it will cost to inspect the agency as a whole. Each childminder will then be inspected by the agency themselves (so no cost to Ofsted).

I think they were talking about just inspecting a couple of childminders from the agency at random - a bit like when you do a course the external moderators want to see a couple of pieces of work (the moderators choose) to double check that the course tutor is marking the course work properly.

[Simona]

Ofsted won't inspect agencies childminders. They are saying that is the amount it will cost to inspect the agency as a whole. Each childminder will then be inspected by the agency themselves (so no cost to Ofsted).

A 'sample' of cms will be inspected by Ofsted alongside the agency...that is what we are told and have to wait for confirmation
Unfortunately their grade will not matter because they will get the agency grade in the end...lower or higher
The agency duty is to ensure their cms are high quality etc etc

If this has changed then I stand corrected

On another matter...nurseries do not pay £35...their fee is around £220 as quoted by Dawn100...you are correct

I just checked the Ofsted website to link the fee factsheet...it is not available anymore
What I have found is a lot of amendments to the 2008 fee...if there is someone better than me at navigating through their website please do as I am total rubbish

Although nothing is confirmed ...at least we have 'estimated' figures which is what we have been waiting for 2 years...it is a small step...lets wait for the giant leap when we know what we will be charged in the end

Why oh why do Ofsted, DfE and Truss always release this type of news on a Friday?

[MAWI]

Ofsted won't inspect agencies childminders. They are saying that is the amount it will cost to inspect the agency as a whole. Each childminder will then be inspected by the agency themselves (so no cost to Ofsted).

So do we know what type of Inspection experience these agencies would have? I'm really confused by all this.

So if Ofsted inspect an agency and there is a mixture of gradings from 70 different childminders, how does that work? Do we get all get the same grading, I.e could be satisfactory if that is the overall average? Can someone explain to me please. I'm in no way interested in joining an agency btw. Independent al the way. I'll just pay whatever the fee may be.

[moggy]

So do we know what type of Inspection experience these agencies would have? I'm really confused by all this.

So if Ofsted inspect an agency and there is a mixture of gradings from 70 different childminders, how does that work? Do we get all get the same grading, I.e could be satisfactory if that is the overall average? Can someone explain to me please. I'm in no way interested in joining an agency btw. Independent al the way. I'll just pay whatever the fee may be.

No one really knows- my understanding of it:

-The agency will check standards of its CMers as part of its agency service.
-The agency will be graded by Ofsted.
-At an agency's inspection, Ofsted will check a sample of an agency's CMers and see if they think the agency are checking their standards correctly. So if an agency CMers is deemed inadequate in a sample by Ofsted the Agency will get a poor report.

How Agencies will grade agency CMers, or if they will actually 'grade' them, is not specified as far as I can see. This is one of the big problems. The idea seems to be 'trust the agency to provide you a good agency CMer' rather than parents looking at individual CM ofsted reports/gradings.

[Simona]

So do we know what type of Inspection experience these agencies would have? I'm really confused by all this.

So if Ofsted inspect an agency and there is a mixture of gradings from 70 different childminders, how does that work? Do we get all get the same grading, I.e could be satisfactory if that is the overall average? Can someone explain to me please. I'm in no way interested in joining an agency btw. Independent al the way. I'll just pay whatever the fee may be.

The trials end 31 March...then the independent evaluator comes in and results out in May
In the meantime Ofsted is consulting on an agency inspection framework...at this stage no one knows...no need to be confused as we are all unaware of facts

The gist is.... a sample of cms get inspected as well as the agency...whatever grade the agency gets the cms will reflect as cms in an agency are inspected but not graded by Ofsted because those cms will lose their Unique Reference Number...in other words they are 'deregulated'

more will become clear soon...I know it is frustrating but we are nearly there

[JCrakers]

So if the Agency gets an inadequate........all the childminder's under it do?

Sounds fantastic, where do I sign

[rickysmiths]

Let's hope they don't start thinking of passing the inspection cost on to independent childminders then - if they do then I can see that driving childminders to join agencies.

Of course they will!! I still would not join an agency though.

If you have 5 weeks holiday it works out at just under £5 per working week over 3 years.

I was expecting anything up to £1000 per Ofsted inspection to be honest because it is an expensive process which is why they want to get rid of it.

What scares me is that when Childminders done run to join Agencies and the Agencies aren't cost effective that they will make it compulsory to join. I hope I will have retired by then!

[rickysmiths]

It's a joke! £93 each for agency childminders if they get 75.
How can that be justified? Surely the cost is the same to do an inspection on either one? Or am I missing the point? Lol agencies suck!

No the fee is for the whole inspection and what it will cost the Agency. However as we know the Agencies have to be self funding so that Inspection fee along with any other running costs will be passed to the parents and childminders to pay. The fee for childminders will be a lot higher than £93 it is predicted to be between £600 and £1000 per year which is much more than the £5 per week it is likely to cost to remain Independently inspected and have our own grade.

[Simona]

So if the Agency gets an inadequate........all the childminder's under it do?

Sounds fantastic, where do I sign

Spot on!!!...and if you take funded children? what then...hand them back? I can see the LAs will love this arrangement