Finally - the feedback from meeting with DfE on revised EYFS

Penny1959 · 18-10-2011, 04:58 PM

Sorry for delay - only just hit my inbox

The feedback provided by DfE on the meeting that Playmate and I went to discuss the revised EYFS

We have been told when the governments response is out - and of course will let you all know - as soon as we know

Penny

**blue bear** · 18-10-2011, 05:25 PM

Thank you penny, that is really useful, so glad you are onside watching our backs.

**sarah707** · 18-10-2011, 05:54 PM

That is great Penny thank you for sharing.

It is good to see quite a few of the points that we raised are in there

**miffy** · 18-10-2011, 08:24 PM

Thanks Penny - I'll have a look later

Miffy xx

**The Juggler** · 18-10-2011, 09:07 PM

thanks Penny. let's hope these concerns get recognised in the revised EYFS

**Toothfairy** · 19-10-2011, 06:48 AM

Thanks, will have a good look later

**tashaleee** · 19-10-2011, 07:01 AM

Thanks Penny - made very interesting reading and I look forward to seeing what happens next

**PixiePetal** · 19-10-2011, 07:15 AM

Thanks Penny - had a quick read and there have been some great points put across. We will see what happens next

**babs** · 19-10-2011, 10:40 AM

thanks penny..

**lesley** · 19-10-2011, 12:34 PM

thanks interesting reading.

Lesley

**peppa Pig** · 19-10-2011, 01:16 PM

thank you Penny

**king** · 19-10-2011, 07:27 PM

Thank you Penny. Very interesting x

**mandy moo** · 20-10-2011, 07:49 AM

Intresting reading, thank you

**rickysmiths** · 20-10-2011, 08:55 AM

Thank you Penny.

Very dissappointed to see the recommendations about two teirs of Childminders and a strong emphasis on Networks. I was hoping all Networks would be abolished because in my experience in our area they are definately a post code lottery and bear no relationship to the quality of the local childminders. My nearest Network of this nature is over 20 miles away and I would not be allowed to join it. This has meant that it has been impossible to even consider becoming accredited for instance. We would have to have a gurantee that all cms would have access to a Network if they wanted to.

Also the agreement that all cms should have an NVQ Level 3 (lets get it right, an 'A' Level).
It has, I think already been proven that this is not realist because the final dates have been pushed back and back. I seem to remember the FIRST DEADLINE was 2010

Until the authorities plan to fully fund all existing cms as well. Why would a cm with 10-15yrs experience and one who has taken part in training regularly pay upward of £2000 for a qualification that doesn't mean they can increase their fees to absorb the cost or regognise the training. Such childminders are often always full and having a level 3 would not influence this at all. Far better to perhaps assess such cms and give them an acceditation for their years of experience and training if they warrent it. Isn't this what Ofsted do in our inspections anyway?

Yes make it a requirement for all new cms so they have a good base training if they have no acedemic qualfications, but I think there has to be recognition for all other 'A' Levels and higher qualifications that a propective cm has. After all how many people with a Degree in a subject go into the workplace not using specifically the subject of their degree? It does not in anyway mean they do a bad job because of it. I don't think this is recognised for cms.

I have far higher qualifications than 'A' Levels and I have 5 of those! I have 40 years work experience, 17 childminding and am always and have always been able to fill my vacancies I have never had less then Good in my inspections but I have no formal Child care qualifications apart from raising my own children. Does that make me a worse cm than one with an 'A' Level in childcare, are the potential outcomes for the children in my care less because of the lack of an 'A' Level? Ofsted don't think this is the case and never have.

I really think it would be a dangerous move to say ALL cms have to have this 'A' Level by 2015 it means people will have to get on a course really by Sept 2013 to achieve this and I don't see this happening so if a cm doesn't have the NVQ by 2015 will they be de-registered and be told they can no longer work? How will this work if like me they have always ahd good and outstandings on inspection? Won't it make Ofsted look like Prats to one day say someone is a good cm and then de register them for the lack of an 'A' level? Sorry but I can't see it happening.

By the way I am currently doing the new Level 3 Diploma. Only because at the beginning of the year my LA got government funding for £1500 of the £2000 and split the £500 so I have only had to pay £250 to do the course. It is a joke though, I got level 3 in my English competency test and Level 2 in Maths, but in addition to the 'A' Level course I have to do Edexcel GCSE in Maths and English. My children think it is hilarious and so do my parents. My parents as professionas would never be expected to go through this kind of process in their workplace and are amazed that the government are doing this to cms.

Sorry I'll get off my soap box now!!

Penny1959 · 20-10-2011, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by rickysmiths

Thank you Penny.

Please note comments in blue are my personal thoughts and nothing to do with feedback from DfE

Very dissappointed to see the recommendations about two teirs of Childminders and a strong emphasis on Networks. I was hoping all Networks would be abolished because in my experience in our area they are definately a post code lottery and bear no relationship to the quality of the local childminders. My nearest Network of this nature is over 20 miles away and I would not be allowed to join it. This has meant that it has been impossible to even consider becoming accredited for instance. We would have to have a gurantee that all cms would have access to a Network if they wanted to.

I agree RS - in fact I stated my case very strongly as of course I am not a network childminder - despite my previous job as network coordinator. I object to networks - because not available to all who want them and / or to be accredited because of LA funding and decisions about if want accredited cms. That there is NO standard now that LA can do their own networks - so in on area you could have a very good network, in another area a poor network and in yet another no network at all. Also for networks to work (in my opinion) you need to have regular visits including unannounced visits and an assessment process over several months so you get to know the childminder and their practice - and therefore know if everyday practice or 'show practice. So as we are unlikely to get funding or a decission for networks for EVERYONE and of a consistant standard - then I am against networks being the gauge as to if a 'better' childminder

Also the agreement that all cms should have an NVQ Level 3 (lets get it right, an 'A' Level).
It has, I think already been proven that this is not realist because the final dates have been pushed back and back. I seem to remember the FIRST DEADLINE was 2010

Until the authorities plan to fully fund all existing cms as well. Why would a cm with 10-15yrs experience and one who has taken part in training regularly pay upward of £2000 for a qualification that doesn't mean they can increase their fees to absorb the cost or regognise the training. Such childminders are often always full and having a level 3 would not influence this at all. Far better to perhaps assess such cms and give them an acceditation for their years of experience and training if they warrent it. Isn't this what Ofsted do in our inspections anyway?
Yes make it a requirement for all new cms so they have a good base training if they have no acedemic qualfications, but I think there has to be recognition for all other 'A' Levels and higher qualifications that a propective cm has. After all how many people with a Degree in a subject go into the workplace not using specifically the subject of their degree? It does not in anyway mean they do a bad job because of it. I don't think this is recognised for cms.

I think the idea was for a phasing in - a bit like they have done other things. The 2010 timeframe was a NCMA idea in what they wanted to happen and not a government adopted one

]I have far higher qualifications than 'A' Levels and I have 5 of those! I have 40 years work experience, 17 childminding and am always and have always been able to fill my vacancies I have never had less then Good in my inspections but I have no formal Child care qualifications apart from raising my own children. Does that make me a worse cm than one with an 'A' Level in childcare, are the potential outcomes for the children in my care less because of the lack of an 'A' Level? Ofsted don't think this is the case and never have.

And yes agree there should be a system to give credit for those with years of good practice and Ofsted grades etc to prove it - however as we all know there are a few who have years of experience who don't have a clue

I really think it would be a dangerous move to say ALL cms have to have this 'A' Level by 2015 it means people will have to get on a course really by Sept 2013 to achieve this and I don't see this happening so if a cm doesn't have the NVQ by 2015 will they be de-registered and be told they can no longer work? How will this work if like me they have always ahd good and outstandings on inspection? Won't it make Ofsted look like Prats to one day say someone is a good cm and then de register them for the lack of an 'A' level? Sorry but I can't see it happening.

By the way I am currently doing the new Level 3 Diploma. Only because at the beginning of the year my LA got government funding for £1500 of the £2000 and split the £500 so I have only had to pay £250 to do the course. It is a joke though, I got level 3 in my English competency test and Level 2 in Maths, but in addition to the 'A' Level course I have to do Edexcel GCSE in Maths and English. My children think it is hilarious and so do my parents. My parents as professionas would never be expected to go through this kind of process in their workplace and are amazed that the government are doing this to cms.

Sorry I'll get off my soap box now!!

As to soap box - I think on some points we are on the same one !

moogster1a · 20-10-2011, 03:19 PM

i agree wholeheartedly with Rickysmith.
very annoyed to see the 2 tiers being mooted for the reasons she states.
Also the level 3. I would have to find the money and time to do a qualification which wasn't needed to do my job when i registered. If I didn't do it what then? Would they ignore my 2 "good" inspections and the wishes of the children's parents and ruin their stability and continuity of care. Not to mention taking away my livelihood?
NCMA certainly don't represent my point of view there.
I can't think of any other profession where they have ever moved the goalposts in terms of qualifications needed and threatened to stop you doing your job without it.
We are already inspected on a regular basis. If we weren't up to the job, OFSTED would certainly pull us up on it.

I suggest an organised petition against the mandatory introduction of level 3.
Anyone with me?

Penny1959 · 20-10-2011, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by moogster1a

i agree wholeheartedly with Rickysmith.
very annoyed to see the 2 tiers being mooted for the reasons she states.
Also the level 3. I would have to find the money and time to do a qualification which wasn't needed to do my job when i registered. If I didn't do it what then? Would they ignore my 2 "good" inspections and the wishes of the children's parents and ruin their stability and continuity of care. Not to mention taking away my livelihood?
NCMA certainly don't represent my point of view there.
I can't think of any other profession where they have ever moved the goalposts in terms of qualifications needed and threatened to stop you doing your job without it.
We are already inspected on a regular basis. If we weren't up to the job, OFSTED would certainly pull us up on it.

I suggest an organised petition against the mandatory introduction of level 3.
Anyone with me?

Please rember this is only feedback from a meeting with DfE where NCMA members and NON NCMA were invited to comment on the revised EYFS document - who knows if the government will take notice of the comments.

Once I (and Playmate) have the governments official response and what (if any) changes they plan to make to the revised EYFS document - then will be the time to organise any petitions - a level 3 is NOT currently in the revised EYFS document - so the government would take no notice of a petion about something they are not currently thinking about.

And while I disagree about making it mandatory for those already registered - I do think there should be some form of qualification for new childminders.

Penny

**rickysmiths** · 20-10-2011, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by moogster1a

i agree wholeheartedly with Rickysmith.
very annoyed to see the 2 tiers being mooted for the reasons she states.
Also the level 3. I would have to find the money and time to do a qualification which wasn't needed to do my job when i registered. If I didn't do it what then? Would they ignore my 2 "good" inspections and the wishes of the children's parents and ruin their stability and continuity of care. Not to mention taking away my livelihood?
NCMA certainly don't represent my point of view there.
I can't think of any other profession where they have ever moved the goalposts in terms of qualifications needed and threatened to stop you doing your job without it.
We are already inspected on a regular basis. If we weren't up to the job, OFSTED would certainly pull us up on it.

I suggest an organised petition against the mandatory introduction of level 3.
Anyone with me?

Becoming an Ofsted Inspector is a good example. When Ofsted took over inspections 10 years ago you did not have to be a Graduate to be an inspector, you do now and they haven't sacked all those without a degree nor have they made them go to Uni to get one. Teaching is the same there are prob still quite a few Teachers of my generation 50-60 and possibly a bit younger who were Certificated before all teachers were required to have a degree and they haven't been sacked.

**rickysmiths** · 21-10-2011, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Penny1959

As to soap box - I think on some points we are on the same one !

Its good to know I'm not the only old winger Penny!!!!

I do agree there are some bad ones out there but I really think that the EYFS inspections have sorted a lot of them out. One down the road from me was so shocked at her inspection she gave up and now works in M & S! Another one and I might say at the time the only none new one to have a proudly boasted Level 3 got a deserved Satifactory! All around have Goods with Outstandings or Outstanding. I have had several children whose parents have visited her and walked away fast! Unfortunately we will prob never get rid of all of them.

Penny1959 · 21-10-2011, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by rickysmiths

Its good to know I'm not the only old winger Penny!!!!

I do agree there are some bad ones out there but I really think that the EYFS inspections have sorted a lot of them out. One down the road from me was so shocked at her inspection she gave up and now works in M & S! Another one and I might say at the time the only none new one to have a proudly boasted Level 3 got a deserved Satifactory! All around have Goods with Outstandings or Outstanding. I have had several children whose parents have visited her and walked away fast! Unfortunately we will prob never get rid of all of them.

Unfortunatley in my old job with LA - I know there are still plenty of cm's who either don't care / don't understand / don't bother - just do whatever they want - and also plenty who have a good or even an outstanding grade - who simply only have that practice on one day every 3 years or so.

I think personally until they stop having such neat inspectition cycles and inspect more often and without notice and at ramdon - we will still have cm's whose practice is terrible either all the time or on every day that is not inspectition day.

If you remember I had a notice inspection from EH - and on the day things were not as I wished - had sent assistant home with suspect D+V, had an emergency variation in place for day - and because of time on phone (to parents, Ofsted etc) my normal routines had not been completed - but as the EH officer said - he could see I was putting the needs of the children first and all the important things had been done.

Iknow a EH visit is not the same as a Ofsted inspection but I thing if inspectors saw 'everyday' practice they would make better judgements.

Ok, ok - on soap box again - will get off now

Penny