hi need some advise have i got right all advise appreciated

**matty199** · 05-01-2011, 07:25 PM

i will be following the rules all the way
breaking nothing
and not working the system
just reading it and following it

**matty199** · 05-01-2011, 07:29 PM

if i work within the framework of the system
how can i be working the system
its legal im breaking no rules
..............

**Helen79** · 05-01-2011, 07:56 PM

Am I the only one slightly perturbed by the original post? (no offence intended).

I can't see where the op has mentioned that she's not going to do all the eyfs paperwork and not stick to the rules. A lot of childminders start out because a friend needs care for their baby and they need a job so have started childminding to help out and then taken the business from there, I can't see anything different with it being family.
The op needs a job, her daughters need childcare, I can't see the problem.

I think the thing with ofsted saying that the inspection doesn't cover relatives is so that childminders don't just 'rent a nephew' for the day just to get a better grade. I think if the op does all the relevant paperwork and shows that it is for long term care and that it's all by the book and she's not just fiddling the system for her inspection it shouldn't be a problem.

When I spoke to tax credits earlier there was no mention of caring for other children aswell as relatives, what if there's just no business at the time, the parents of the grandchildren will lose out on the tax credits.

**Bridey** · 05-01-2011, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Helen79

I think the thing with ofsted saying that the inspection doesn't cover relatives is so that childminders don't just 'rent a nephew' for the day just to get a better grade.

I assumed that it was so people didn't set themselves up as childminders at the taxpayers expense (training, CRB checks, start up grants, Ofsted inspections etc) to then only look after family members

**babs** · 05-01-2011, 08:12 PM

when i went to reg as a childminder there was a lady there who wanted to reg for her gran kids and was told aunts ,uncles, sisters can do so but not grandparents as lots of grandparents would reg just to help there children out with childcare and get paid for it.. not sure if this is still the case but id check with everyone 1st you dont want to end up paying everything back because your looking after your own gran kids....

**babs** · 05-01-2011, 08:16 PM

just found this searching net......

are the grandparents looking to register as childminders, so you can pay them to look after your kids?

if this is so you can claim the childcare part of the tax credits, you cannot claim if using relatives, even if they are registered

most people get around paying their relatives by either not telling anyone they are paying them, or by giving them gifts (what child would begrudge buying their parents a new car, washing machine, holiday, etc.)

**matty199** · 05-01-2011, 08:25 PM

my investiogations tell me
my daughter if using a registered childminder can claim upto to 80% of her child minding costs of upto £175 per week(1 child) so paid £140 per week

if me the granparent looks after them on a fair commercial basis i sure as far as tax credits go its fine as long as i am open to others even if i dont have others to childmind

not sure re ofsted had some mixed messages in this post perhaps somebody could give me a answer
regards

**sweets** · 05-01-2011, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by madamtorres

I'm sorry but that is just unfair...(and YES I would report her) from someone who has just had her inspection today...and the work and effort that has gone into not only looking after these children but the courses, training and sheer hard work that goes into that.

Am I the only one slightly perturbed by the original post? (no offence intended).

i wouldn't dream of reporting her, yes she broke the rules, but it wasnt planned if you know what i mean, her mindee was ill on inspection day and she made a spur of the moment decision.

she is one of the best minders i know, far better than some of the officially 'outstanding' minders i know. she has minding for 20 odd years and has only recently taken on her grandchild, she does full EYFS on him so it shouldnt make any difference that it is her grandchild.

i do agree tho that if a minder is just registering to care for a relative they should have to actively look for non related mindees too.

VINASOL · 05-01-2011, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Helen79

I can't see where the op has mentioned that she's not going to do all the eyfs paperwork and not stick to the rules. A lot of childminders start out because a friend needs care for their baby and they need a job so have started childminding to help out and then taken the business from there, I can't see anything different with it being family.
The op needs a job, her daughters need childcare, I can't see the problem.

I think the thing with ofsted saying that the inspection doesn't cover relatives is so that childminders don't just 'rent a nephew' for the day just to get a better grade. I think if the op does all the relevant paperwork and shows that it is for long term care and that it's all by the book and she's not just fiddling the system for her inspection it shouldn't be a problem.

When I spoke to tax credits earlier there was no mention of caring for other children aswell as relatives, what if there's just no business at the time, the parents of the grandchildren will lose out on the tax credits.

I really didn't mean to cause any offence.

I read it that the original poster wanted to become registered simply so that her daughter(s) could claim tax credits for childcare (thus not having to use/pay for other forms of childcare)...and the OP would charge such a high rate that no other people would use her!

It did sound as if she was trying to do something to beat the system (even with the best of intentions).

Sorry if I mis-read the post.

**Blackcat** · 05-01-2011, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by matty199

im not looking for a loophole in the law
if my research is correct and please inform me if you think im wrong the following is correcr and legal and working within the frame work laid down

1.register as childminder ect
2.childmind full time my 2 young grandchildren taking payment from my daughters
3.they can claim assistance through working tax credits(if they qualify)
4.any spaces left i have im within my rights to charge what i like(otherwise it would be a cartel and illegal)
5.please advise what is wrong with that it seems legal with the guidlines from tax credits
6.sure i not the only person here thinking of doing childminding full time for grandchildren and getting paid
appreciate any views

by the rules of ofsted if you care for grandchildren you have to take a min of one non related child, otherwise they assume you are doing it to defraud tax credits, (the lady at my course told us this as there was a granny trying to do the same)

**TammyN** · 05-01-2011, 08:59 PM

i know a cm who has just registered so she can care for her grandchild whilst her daughter is at uni fulltime. she has been told she couldn't look after her grandchild and be paid until she had another mindee on her books! she now has a child 1 afternoon a week and is happily working with eyfs
good luck matty xx

**juejue** · 05-01-2011, 10:16 PM

My friend has been cm for over 5 years. The first 4 of them she only looked after her 2 grandchildren 3 days a week for her daughter... who works for the Tax Credit and was claiming to pay her mum.
Its only been the last year she has been minding another little one because her grandson has gone into full time school.
she was told as long as she was willing to mind a none relative she was ok.

**happytotschildminding** · 06-01-2011, 07:25 AM

Hi, just reading this thread, as you do! and sometimes ofsted do defer inspections if you don't have any children, for example this one; EY312817 hasn't been inspected in 5 years of being registered, not me and I get a bit miffed when I see it! don't know what the circumstances are behind it,( but in a rush to get ready now!!

)
Carol
x

**mrs robbie williams** · 06-01-2011, 11:55 AM

Totally agree, this lady just seems to want to look afta her grandchildren and get paid for it by tax credits so her daughter isnt out of pocket - wrong

**Bridey** · 06-01-2011, 12:32 PM

I don't disagree with the daughter getting tax credits for childcare, neither do I disagree with grandparents getting paid for providing childcare ... what has niggled me is the "seems a bit wrong to me" response to being told that she actually has to take being a Registered Childminder seriously and take on other children in order to be registered and for her daughter to obtain Childcare Credit. If you want the taxpayer to provide you with an income then you have to stick to the rules ... be it tax credit, childcare credit, income support or jobseekers allowance. If you don't think thats fair ... then get a job!

**Minstrel** · 06-01-2011, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by matty199

if im right what stops me just being expensive so nobody else comes to me

the way i understand it, is that i would be acting within all the rules is that correct

This is the comment that to me, suggests the OP will advertise to other parents but actually will charge say £12/hour, and so won't get any custom.
Therefore filling the criteria about being available to care for others but actually won't have to fulfil the obligation.

**loocyloo** · 06-01-2011, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Minstrel

This is the comment that to me, suggests the OP will advertise to other parents but actually will charge say £12/hour, and so won't get any custom.
Therefore filling the criteria about being available to care for others but actually won't have to fulfil the obligation.

thats what worries me too. childminding is a professional job and not to be taken lightly!

**Bridey** · 06-01-2011, 03:36 PM

Being available to take on others won't count for anything when it comes to the Ofsted inspection though - that is what she felt was unfair!

**MissTinkerbell** · 06-01-2011, 04:21 PM

I may have misunderstood but I'm not sure the OP IS doing this so that her daughters can get the tax credits. The daughters need to work and would be paying out for childcare anyway so would be claiming the child element of the working tax credit should they go to another CM/nursery.

All I can see is that the OP has offered to register as a CM so that she can look after her grandchildren, earn a wage and her daughters still be able to claim the working tax credit.

When I did my ICP one of the ladies on the course was doing the very same thing - she was registering to look after her grandchildren because her daughter needed to go to work and would sooner her mum look after the children than a stranger as it were. By regsitering her daughter would still be able to claim tax credits - there was no intention of trying to fiddle the system. My point is that this lady was an Ofsted inspector!

Of course the OP's comment about being too expensive is questionable but is she in the wrong asking it? She wants to look after her grandchildren and do the best for her daughters so is thinking that if she advertises she still meets the criteria to be willing to mind a non-relative but then by charging too much doesn't get any enquiries. Although technically I guess this doesn't meet the criteria because she isn't actually 'doing everything she can to fill that spare space' by charging too much. I wonder how many of us have told a little white lie because we didn't want to mind a particular child for whatever reason?

**MissTinkerbell** · 06-01-2011, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Bridey

I assumed that it was so people didn't set themselves up as childminders at the taxpayers expense (training, CRB checks, start up grants, Ofsted inspections etc) to then only look after family members

Yes but at the end of the day if they are doing all the required paperwork learning journeys, observations, training etc but only looking after family members - why should things be different?

My CM friend looks after her nephew and 1 other little boy - she does exactly the same for both boys and did so for her nephew before her 2nd mindee started. Why should she be graded any different because the LO is her nephew if she is doing exactly the same as me?