Rising 5's query

**Denise r** · 18-05-2010, 07:37 PM

Hi I am hoping someone can clarify something for me.

I contacted Ofsted with regard to my mindee being classified as a rising 5 as they are starting school in Sept 2010 and they have sent me a new certificate. Will this mindee be classed as a rising 5 from the end of July 2010 i.e. start of summer hols? I have a new client who's child will start with me in Sept 2010 but is interested in them starting gradually in August 2010, can I do this? I have the same children through the holidays

Many Thanks

Regards

Denise

**sarah707** · 18-05-2010, 07:41 PM

The child is not classed as rising 5 until he is in 10 sessions a week full time school.

then he is classed as rising 5 in term time and holidays.

Hth

**Minstrel** · 18-05-2010, 07:42 PM

no afraid not.

it will be from when they child first does 10 sessions in a week so def not before sept and in some cases where they do half days first, it can even be october before they are counted as over 5

hth

**mama2three** · 18-05-2010, 07:43 PM

there was a similar thread a short while ago , and someone , ( possibly hebs?) has it in writing from ofsted that they are classed as rising 5s from the summer holidays prior to starting. I will see if i can find the thread for you.

**mama2three** · 18-05-2010, 07:49 PM

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/...ad.php?t=58690

there you go , hth , this is the reply hebs got........

I asked

Hi,

I was hoping you could clarify the following question that has a few local childminder confused.

When a 4 year old child leaves nursery in july for the summer holidays when do they count as a rising 5?

As they are no longer registered with the nursery but with the primary school can we count tham as rising 5\'s during the school summer holidays or do we have to wait until they actually start school in September?

As a few of us have children who need settling in sessions during the school holidays ready for the september start we really could do with knowing if we can count them as rising 5\'s to ensure we do not go over our allowed numbers.

The reply

Dear Ms Smith,

Thank you for your e-mail.

If you care for children aged four and five who are in full-time education, either before or after school or in the school holidays (including the school holidays before the child starts school), you may count them as older than the early years age group. This allows you to have extra children in the early years age group but no more than six children in total.

You should ask us for a special condition on your certificate before the first time you do this. The condition allows you to increase the numbers of children in the early years age group by the number of children aged four and five in full-time education. If you are already providing places for rising fives you are not in breach of requirements, we would just ask that you request this condition for clarity.

Once you have this condition of registration you do not have to tell us about each time this happens.

If it is your own child, a foster child or relative's child who is in full-time education then you do not have to have this condition. Instead you need to ask us to increase the number of children you may have in the early years age group. This is because other children you are responsible for, such as your own children, are not included in the number of children on your certificate. However, we do reduce the number you can care for as a childminder by the number of your own children or any other children you are responsible for such as foster children or grandchildren.

I hope this information is helpful to you. Should you require further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.

**babs** · 18-05-2010, 07:50 PM

ive just had mine changed and asked about hols and was told they were classed as rising 5s she didnt say i had to wait untill september... will be checking now..

**sonia ann** · 18-05-2010, 07:57 PM

surely this will only apply to those children going full time immediately they start school..........most schools start with part time only don't they, so they would not be a rising 5 then until they go full time..........it all seems a bit odd to me

**Minstrel** · 18-05-2010, 07:58 PM

The thing is where would the cut off be?

My own ds will be one of the yougest when he starts reception in sept and so if its true that we can count them as a rising 5 from the summer hols BEFORE they go, then he will be 3 still for part of that time!!

**sonia ann** · 18-05-2010, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Minstrel

The thing is where would the cut off be?

My own ds will be one of the yougest when he starts reception in sept and so if its true that we can count them as a rising 5 from the summer hols BEFORE they go, then he will be 3 still for part of that time!!

exactly one of my lo's is in the same position......

**sarah707** · 18-05-2010, 08:05 PM

my understanding has always been that they must be in full time school first as stated here -

http://childmindinghelp.co.uk/forum/...ad.php?t=41866

where four and five year old children attend the setting before and or after a normal school day

If it has changed then I'm not aware of it... but then let's be honest half the time neither are Ofsted

**Mouse** · 18-05-2010, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Minstrel

The thing is where would the cut off be?

My own ds will be one of the yougest when he starts reception in sept and so if its true that we can count them as a rising 5 from the summer hols BEFORE they go, then he will be 3 still for part of that time!!

But it does say "when caring for 4 & 5 year olds". Presumably it would come into effect when he turns 4 during the summer holidays. As far as I know, it never counts for 3 year olds.

**babs** · 18-05-2010, 08:05 PM

the lo i have now is 3 but 4 in june and has been doin half days but in sept starts full time she will be then 4 others who are still 3 in same class are doin half days still only those who will be 4 before sept will go full time .. if this makes any sense

**Minstrel** · 18-05-2010, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Mouse

But it does say "when caring for 4 & 5 year olds". Presumably it would come into effect when he turns 4 during the summer holidays. As far as I know, it never counts for 3 year olds.

True but it also says 'when caring for 4 and 5 year olds in full time education' which they would not be until the september/october.

**AliceK** · 19-05-2010, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by mama2three

there was a similar thread a short while ago , and someone , ( possibly hebs?) has it in writing from ofsted that they are classed as rising 5s from the summer holidays prior to starting. I will see if i can find the thread for you.

I have been told the same thing from Ofsted. I have a 4and half year old who will start full-time school in Sept (no half days here) and they have confirmed that for the summer hols I can class him as a rising 5. It was only on this basis that I was able to take on an additional child from August. I already have this on my certificate as my DS was a rising 5 when I first registered.

xxxxx

**Hebs** · 19-05-2010, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by AliceK

I have been told the same thing from Ofsted. I have a 4and half year old who will start full-time school in Sept (no half days here) and they have confirmed that for the summer hols I can class him as a rising 5. It was only on this basis that I was able to take on an additional child from August. I already have this on my certificate as my DS was a rising 5 when I first registered.

xxxxx

ofsted told me in writing (see above) that for the summer holidays proir to starting school they are classed as rising 5, as they are no longer registered with the nursery but the local school, ours also do full days from starting

i have it in writing so if i get asked i can prove that it is what i was told by ofsted

**Hebs** · 19-05-2010, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Minstrel

The thing is where would the cut off be?

My own ds will be one of the yougest when he starts reception in sept and so if its true that we can count them as a rising 5 from the summer hols BEFORE they go, then he will be 3 still for part of that time!!

no as he is 3, it is specfically for 4 and 5 yr olds

**Denise r** · 19-05-2010, 01:39 PM

Thank you everyone for your replies.

8 years ago my daughter was able attend the local holiday club (full time care) at the start of the summer holidays as she had finished pre-school and would start school in the September so I know the rule used to apply.

I am going to check my new certificate and maybe get it in writing from Ofsted that it is OK for me to start another child under 5 in August!!! It is ridiculous as most schools do a settling in period which sometimes goes on for weeks and is not workable for working parents and us childminders stuck in the middle!

Thanks Hebs

Denise