Mindee's mum has given notice but i think she's making a huge mistake (sorry-long)

[Pedagog]

I can only reiterate again that I think you should report the sister to SS...I don't think passing the buck to other's in the playground / the teacher is enough...what if they pass the buck too & hope that someone else has the courage to do the right (though I admit) hard thing.

I have to agree.

[Donkey]

I have to agree.

me too

you have a duty of care towards your mindee and you know he is not going to a safe environment...

example...

sister drunk out of head, locks door to keep kids in, falls asleep on settee, mindee gets matches and plays with them and sets fire to house.

door locked older ones can't find keys, house ablaze, cant wake up drunk person...

not really that far fetched!!! YOU need to report this NOW!
I can understand your reluctance but could you live with yourself if anything happened to them?

[The Juggler]

I'm with Blaze. I think I would tell your friend, ok that's your decision but if see her with LO and she is drunk I will report her not out of spite but out of concern for your son. That way she'll know up front what you will do and won't have a go at you if/when you do it.

Only I understand how brave you need to be with the come back you can get from playground cliques if you did this but at the end of the day, safety comes first.

[TheBTeam]

I'm with Blaze. I think I would tell your friend, ok that's your decision but if see her with LO and she is drunk I will report her not out of spite but out of concern for your son. That way she'll know up front what you will do and won't have a go at you if/when you do it.

Only I understand how brave you need to be with the come back you can get from playground cliques if you did this but at the end of the day, safety comes first.

I agree with this, whether in the situation i could do it or not, i am not sure tho. I really would like to think that i would, but i am a bit of a coward.

[Blackhorse]

I am with Blaze on this one!
The children need you to speak up for them. They can't!!
And the sister won't for whatever the reason.
I am actually quite angry that a mother would let her child go to someone drunk. I know it is her sister, but your first duty must be to protect your own child I would say.

I know it is hard, but it will be better for everyone this way.
Her sister needs help and if she can get it then she will lead a better life (hopefully) and may again be able to look after her sisters child.

I think I personally would even tell your friend that I will report her sister and why. ( I am not saying you should do this, this is just what I think I would do)
In secret she might actually be glad about it even if she wouldn't admit it now.

[rickysmiths]

This is really hard but what I wonder is the sister is putting on the pressure to have the mindee because she needs that bit of extra money to buy the boose? Having lost the older one she needs the younger one to keep the money coming in. If that is the case you friend is unintentionally feeding the habit.

I think Angel and Blaze are right and You are caught in the middle. Your friend is going to need a good friend when all this comes to a head isn't she so you need to keep the lines of communication open.

If there has been another incident in the playground with other mums, do you know who and could you have a chat with that mum and the school to see if any help can be got?

The other thing is if the sisters youngest is only 15mths then there must be a Health Visitor do you know them? Could you have a chat with her?

What a hard position to be in. I'm sure it will work itself out. Take care of yourself.

[Rainy]

Thankyou for all your advice. I actually agree with what you are all saying but i am in a really difficult position.

I have been speaking to my friend about this for about 2 months now and voiced my concerns time and time again. She is petrified of her sister (who is actualy a bully) although she won't admit it.

There have been occasions when i have collected him from school and she has asked me to pass him on to her sister to take home as she was going round there after work. One time it was her sisters birthday and i knew she would be drunk, i told my friend if she was drunk i would not be passing him over, she said ok but knew she would then have a massive row with her sister. On that day she was out of her head but she also had a friend with her who i know and so does my friend and she was sober. I agreed mindee could go as long as this other woman took care of him. I told my friend if the other person hadn't have been there i would not have let him go.

My friend says she completely understands what i am saying but feels that she is not in a position to say no to her sister. I told her i would never trust her sister to look after my DS and he is 6 years older than mindee.

I have gone on about this until i am blue in the face but it has got me nowhere. I am so dissappointed in her for putting her DS as risk.

I think i will tell her that if i see her sister in the school collecting mindee when she is drunk then i will report her and then the teachers will not allow the children to leave.

Her sister works nights in a care home a couple of nights a week and doesn't drink those days but the day after when she drinks she is also very tired so it goes straight to her head. She has a wide circle of friends who all drink (but in moderation) round to her house quite regually after school and i know of two occassions when someone else has had to stay there after everyone else has left to care for her kids as she has passed out. Her older children are often embarrassed by her behaviour and i have heard them say "please mummy stop it it's embarrassing".

I am really worried for my mindee and i have told my friend this. She does pay her sister for childcare but it would be quite a bit cheaper then what she pays me. I asked her if she thought her DS welfare was less important than a few quid a week.

As i have said before, she will not start caring for him until Sept so i will hang fire until then. I will see what she is like when she is up the school and go from there.

Thankyou for all your support.

[vix84]

Thankyou for all your advice. I actually agree with what you are all saying but i am in a really difficult position.

I have been speaking to my friend about this for about 2 months now and voiced my concerns time and time again. She is petrified of her sister (who is actualy a bully) although she won't admit it.

There have been occasions when i have collected him from school and she has asked me to pass him on to her sister to take home as she was going round there after work. One time it was her sisters birthday and i knew she would be drunk, i told my friend if she was drunk i would not be passing him over, she said ok but knew she would then have a massive row with her sister. On that day she was out of her head but she also had a friend with her who i know and so does my friend and she was sober. I agreed mindee could go as long as this other woman took care of him. I told my friend if the other person hadn't have been there i would not have let him go.

My friend says she completely understands what i am saying but feels that she is not in a position to say no to her sister. I told her i would never trust her sister to look after my DS and he is 6 years older than mindee.

I have gone on about this until i am blue in the face but it has got me nowhere. I am so dissappointed in her for putting her DS as risk.

I think i will tell her that if i see her sister in the school collecting mindee when she is drunk then i will report her and then the teachers will not allow the children to leave.

Her sister works nights in a care home a couple of nights a week and doesn't drink those days but the day after when she drinks she is also very tired so it goes straight to her head. She has a wide circle of friends who all drink (but in moderation) round to her house quite regually after school and i know of two occassions when someone else has had to stay there after everyone else has left to care for her kids as she has passed out. Her older children are often embarrassed by her behaviour and i have heard them say "please mummy stop it it's embarrassing".

I am really worried for my mindee and i have told my friend this. She does pay her sister for childcare but it would be quite a bit cheaper then what she pays me. I asked her if she thought her DS welfare was less important than a few quid a week.

As i have said before, she will not start caring for him until Sept so i will hang fire until then. I will see what she is like when she is up the school and go from there.

Thankyou for all your support.

The more you tell us about incidents etc. the more it seems like you should be reporting to SS and also to Ofsted. So if you have a Mindee who you are handing over, you have a duty of safeguarding that child, and I would be really uncomfortable about handing over to a person who is drunk, even if there is a friend there who is sober. I would be ringing my local early years team for advice or SS as Im not sure where you stand on legally having to report her as you are a Childminder ifuswim.

Can you tell the friend that as a Childminder you have a responsibility to report the mum if your mindee will go there? And you should also ring Ofsted to inform them that the aunt is working as a CM illegally as she is getting paid for it.


Sorry if thats not the sort of advice you are looking for, and others please correct me if I am wrong, but Im pretty sure you have a duty to report

[nannymcflea]

[There have been occasions when i have collected him from school and she has asked me to pass him on to her sister to take home as she was going round there after work. One time it was her sisters birthday and i knew she would be drunk, i told my friend if she was drunk i would not be passing him over, she said ok but knew she would then have a massive row with her sister. On that day she was out of her head but she also had a friend with her who i know and so does my friend and she was sober. I agreed mindee could go as long as this other woman took care of him. I told my friend if the other person hadn't have been there i would not have let him go.]

Was this other person on the list for collection, if not and something had happened to that child I'm not sure where you would have stood because legally you handed over a child to a person under the influence of alcohol.

I think it's time something was done no matter how hard or awkward it is between you and your friend.It's going to be difficult but you obviously have the childs best interests at heart. Personally I think she will catch herself out and not turn up a few times to pick him up but why should the child have to suffer in the mean time?

Good luck, it's a difficult position to be in.

[Rainy]

This is really hard but what I wonder is the sister is putting on the pressure to have the mindee because she needs that bit of extra money to buy the boose? Having lost the older one she needs the younger one to keep the money coming in. If that is the case you friend is unintentionally feeding the habit.

This is exactly what i think is happening. Over the last 4 1/2 years she has probably babysat him only twice and doesn't really do anything for him. Now it seems she wants to look after him because he's her nephew.

Well he has been her nephew for 4 1/2 years so why the sudden change. The only thing it could be is that she wants the money.

He is a lovely boy when he is in my care and really well behaved but his behaviour changes big time when his mum is present and he is then very hard work. He will have massive temper tantrums and cries about everything. He will kick out at anything and everthing that gets in his way. If he acts like that when he is with the sister there is no way she will cope with it.

[Deb]

Hang on a minute, stop thinking about yourself and your friend - stop thinking about how this all affects you. Think about the children involved here and get the woman reported or at least ring your safeguarding advisory service and get some proper advice. You dont have a choice it is your duty of care. FGS grow a back bone and just ring up.

No it's not easy or pleasant and yes ss will get involved, as they rightly should. But it's not your fault, you're not the one drunk in charge of children.

You might lose a friend over this but ateotd Children Come First - Victoria Climbie and Baby Peter died because everyone passed the buck and thought someone else would notice. Victoria's childminder was the only one but it was too late. Dont wait. Just do it.

[The Juggler]

FGS grow a back bone and just ring up.

No it's not easy or pleasant and yes ss will get involved, as they rightly should. But it's not your fault, you're not the one drunk in charge of children.

You might lose a friend over this but ateotd Children Come First - Victoria Climbie and Baby Peter died because everyone passed the buck and thought someone else would notice. Victoria's childminder was the only one but it was too late. Dont wait. Just do it.

Good advice, but bit harshly said don't you think!

[Blaze]

While you hand fire till September & wait for the sister to turn up drunk...what about the sister's 3 kid's that are being left to fend for themselves?

I appreciate you are reluctant to do it...but we ALL have a duty to safeguard ALL children in our society! You need to involve SS

[Blaze]

Good advice, but bit harshly said don't you think!

A bit yes, but I think Debs is frustrated by the OP.

[Curly Quavers]

I can only reiterate again that I think you should report the sister to SS...I don't think passing the buck to other's in the playground / the teacher is enough...what if they pass the buck too & hope that someone else has the courage to do the right (though I admit) hard thing.

I agree 100% you have got to be brave

[Curly Quavers]

Hang on a minute, stop thinking about yourself and your friend - stop thinking about how this all affects you. Think about the children involved here and get the woman reported or at least ring your safeguarding advisory service and get some proper advice. You dont have a choice it is your duty of care. FGS grow a back bone and just ring up.

No it's not easy or pleasant and yes ss will get involved, as they rightly should. But it's not your fault, you're not the one drunk in charge of children.

You might lose a friend over this but ateotd Children Come First - Victoria Climbie and Baby Peter died because everyone passed the buck and thought someone else would notice. Victoria's childminder was the only one but it was too late. Dont wait. Just do it.

I also agree 100%

You really can not wait for somebody else to do the dirty work and report her. Just pick up your phone
x

[The Juggler]

A bit yes, but I think Debs is frustrated by the OP.

More I've read this thread, I agree, not just your mindee who needs protecting but her own children and no point waiting until next time if she has people in there drinking regularly after school.

I would report this anonymously too if this were me and now.

[Rainy]

Hang on a minute, stop thinking about yourself and your friend - stop thinking about how this all affects you. Think about the children involved here and get the woman reported or at least ring your safeguarding advisory service and get some proper advice. You dont have a choice it is your duty of care. FGS grow a back bone and just ring up.

No it's not easy or pleasant and yes ss will get involved, as they rightly should. But it's not your fault, you're not the one drunk in charge of children.

You might lose a friend over this but ateotd Children Come First - Victoria Climbie and Baby Peter died because everyone passed the buck and thought someone else would notice. Victoria's childminder was the only one but it was too late. Dont wait. Just do it.

I have a back bone thankyou very much otherwise i wouldn't have spent the last two months upsetting my friend by telling her that her sisiter is not fit to care for her DS. I posted on here to get advice, not get slagged off.

I agree that the child should come first and that is exactly what i have been trying to do. I have even spoken to my friends mother about it as she is aware how much her daughter drinks.

I have not sat back and let this happen without saying something. I have even told my friend i will care for her DS for free if it was a money issue but really it all boils down to the fact that she can't say no to her sister.

I will take your comments on board but i have to say that i found your post quite offensive. I am not the bad guy here and i came on here hoping to get some friendly advice. I have decided to ring the safeguarding advisory service so i will see what they suggest.

[The Juggler]

Can't imagine how hard the situation is for you. Good for you for tackling mum, her mum and making the decision you have. Let us know how you get on.

Am sure everyone meant to be supportive rather than critical. Sometimes in writing things seem really harsh.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

[Rainy]

Can't imagine how hard the situation is for you. Good for you for tackling mum, her mum and making the decision you have. Let us know how you get on.

Am sure everyone meant to be supportive rather than critical. Sometimes in writing things seem really harsh.

Good luck. Let us know how you get on.

Thankyou

i just felt like i was being blamed for this situation. Believe me i have thought of nothing else for weeks and this has had me in tears.

I've got to go out now to take my DS to piano lesson so will be back later.