Is pushchair sleeping a problem?

**Schnakes** · 28-01-2009, 08:26 AM

I also use the buggies for sleeping. I have a Phil and Teds which lies completely flat.

My friend puts the children in the buggy in the garden. The children do sleep, but I wouldnt do it myself. I wouldnt want to sleep in the garden so I wouldnt do it to the children!! Not saying theres anything wrong with it..just personal preference.

Sx

**HomefromHome** · 28-01-2009, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by sarah707

The problem with children sleeping in car seats / pushchairs etc is that if they are sitting upright, their lungs constrict and they cannot breathe properly. It can cause severe respiratory problems. That is why inspectors are against it.

Here is an American study. there are others too

http://www.idph.state.ia.us/hcci/com...ositioning.pdf

http://adc.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/71/6/497

Lack of supervision is also considered an issue, so show how you monitor baby while sleeping in the pushchair.

However, if you have a risk assessment in place showing that you understand the risks and always lay him flat... plus you have a signature from parents saying that's their preference, then you're covered.

Hth

these blimmin car seats!!! travel systems should be banned!!!! the amount of people who have newborns/young babies in car seats in the buggy!! there are recommendations/warnings on them that children should not be in them for more than 2 hrs!!!!! THEY ARE CAR SEATS. i had a t/s but always laid dd flat in the buggy with the straps done up over her and the blankets (she was tiny!!) i used it like a pram til she was about 6 mths then slowly raised her as she grew.
i have just recommended to one of my mum's about this (just had a baby - 10 yrs since last one!) and explained all this - she too now wraps her baby up, then straps around her then blankets, etc.
there really needs to be more warnigns about this subject.
i'll get down from me soap box now!

**Schnakes** · 28-01-2009, 09:30 AM

Thanks for the links you posted - Ive just taken the time to have a quick read and was pretty shocked, I have to say. Will have to re-think my current sleeping arrangements, I think. I would never leave a child to sleep upright or in a car seat/swing anyway, but I hadnt thought about the other issues.

Thanks again,

Sx

**helenlc** · 28-01-2009, 09:42 AM

When my friend had her baby (now 5 yrs old) her midwife told her off for having him in the car seat indoors. I wouldnt do it, personally, always had a moses basket. I then began to wonder about these travel systems. I can see where they are coming from convenience wise in moving baby from car seat to pram. But a young baby who sleeps as much as a new born will stay asleep while you move them from car seat to a cosy pram.

I was out shopping yesterday and saw at least 2 young babies (about 3-4 months at a guess) who were both almost sitting up in their pushchair and they looked SO uncomfortable. They were both in pushchairs that had multiple recline so there was no need for them to be upright.

I had a pram with mine that was also a pushchair (all in one seat unit that laid flat to sitting upright), so gradually, as someone else said, I raised the back support.

I havent read the articles yet but I am going to later.

**jadavi** · 25-03-2012, 03:21 PM

Which push chairs do people recommend that lie flat?
I have to change mine to accommodate sleeping babies now.

**rickysmiths** · 25-03-2012, 05:00 PM

I have Maclaren Umbrella fold ones which lie flat.

**mushpea** · 25-03-2012, 06:13 PM

my pushcharis lay flat when they sleep, mine sleep outside as normaly they fall asleep on a walk and bringing them in would mean having to strip coats and blankets so they dont get to hot which would wake them up, also its queiter in the garden.
I wont put them upstairs in travel cots because I cant see them and having a monitor is usless if they are having a fit,, I had a child have a febral convulsion in my care and he didnt make a sound, he sat there playing and just fell back and started fitting, if he had been out of my sight i wouldnt have know it was happening, I dont have them in my sights 24/7 of course but if I was thinking he was having an hours sleep I wouldnt have gone up to him within that time as I wouldnt want to disturb him so I prefer them to be where I can see them.

**kel1983** · 25-03-2012, 07:34 PM

does anyone use sleep mats? Are these even safe to use?

toddlers896 · 11-10-2012, 08:11 AM

I have a LO that wont go in a travel cot no matter how tired she is. she stands up and just screams so bad that she gets herself in a state. 17months she is.
Ive tried it so many times but just cant be bothered with the stress it puts her and me through. I even struggle to get her to go in a buggy, she just screams there too, and will fight going down to sleep. This is definately the one thing i find fustrating about childminding as she is so tired and grumpy but just fights it. Hard work for me

**2kidsunder5** · 11-10-2012, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by berkschick

When I had my inspection, my inspector was very hot on wanting the children in a cot with clean bedding.

This suits me fine as I prefer it this way too. They get a better sleep in my opinion but that could just be the kids I have at the moment.

I have 3 travel cots and all the kids use these with their own bedding etc.

Not everyone has the space for travel cots, the upstairs of my home is not registered so the only place a travel cot could go is in the through lounge dining room where I mind from, just not practical.

I am a firm believer that as long as you have risk assessed the situation and can show the inspector that it is risk assessed and you have a safe sleeping policy and parental permission then a lie flat pram or the couch is sufficient. At the end of the day this is our home not a nursery!

**clareelizabeth1** · 11-10-2012, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by sarah707

I totally agree you can do exactly what you want with your own children.

With other people's children we must follow health and safety advice...

Sofas are a no no because of the risk of children getting stuck in cushions and not being able to breathe... same with beanbags.

Prams are fine if their backs are supported - and so are buggies, again if they are properly supported but only with written permission from parents.

Putting them on beds is absolutely no no because of the risk of rolling.

The Eyfs also states that they must have clean bedding, so the carpet is out. It must be a mattress with a sheet, individually cleaned for the child. If the child has allergies take advice from parents before using washing powder etc.

Hope this clarifies

When ofsted came to mine although I had lie down prams and a cot for every child they said if I wanted I could always use the couch

**hectors house** · 11-10-2012, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by trac896

I have a LO that wont go in a travel cot no matter how tired she is. she stands up and just screams so bad that she gets herself in a state. 17months she is.
Ive tried it so many times but just cant be bothered with the stress it puts her and me through. I even struggle to get her to go in a buggy, she just screams there too, and will fight going down to sleep. This is definately the one thing i find fustrating about childminding as she is so tired and grumpy but just fights it. Hard work for me

I find that if I look after the babies young enough so they can't stand up in travel cot then I soon get a good sleep routine going with them, but the children who come when older, sometimes stand up and scream and if they won't sit or lie down then I'm never going to get them to sleep. I did have one many years ago like this and his mum was happy for him to sleep in buggy upstairs instead - in a buggy they are laid down and at least in the right positition to sleep. With this child I eventually got him into a travel cot once his sleep routine was established and then into a single bed when he was about 3. I have a mindee now who was about 9 months when she started with me and also refused to sleep in a travel cot - on the days her mum has her, they are so busy out and about to toddler groups and the park that she has got used to falling asleep in the buggy and has never established a routine of falling asleep in a cot during day. This mindee is now 2, she climbs into buggy by herself with her soft toy and sleeps for over an hour. I risk assess the room and make sure nothing is left within her reach, check the buggy straps are safe and check the brake is on - I also check on her every 50 mins as per my policy. I'm not going to try this child in a travel cot, she sleeps so well in the buggy and it means I can have 3 children asleep at same time.

I saw somewhere on this thread that someone wasn't keen on the idea of children sleeping in buggies out in the garden - when I was a baby (nearly half a century ago), it was the norm to put children outside to sleep in the garden, under the apple tree in the Silver Cross pram - whatever the weather - and I bet I wasn't checked on regularly.

**winstonian** · 11-10-2012, 11:38 AM

That report is scary. I often put toddlers to sleep in a flat pushchair or on my settee. I obviously keep a close eye on them but it does make you think

**lisa1968** · 11-10-2012, 08:51 PM

I always use pushchairs-they all lie flat and are a good size so little ones aren't restricted.I dont have the room for travel cots and by using pushchairs I can move them around and put them in the quietest place.They bi=oth sleep for a t least 2 hours.

**sweets** · 11-10-2012, 09:06 PM

You will find a study for and against every subject possible if you search enough

Pushchairs totally flat and semi laid back are absolutlely fine for sleeping in and so are sofas, children have been sleeping in/on them for years.

People need to remember that we don't work for OFSTED, they are not our employers! all they have are lots of stupid rules and no common sense. we run our own businesses, where does it say in the EYFS that childrencant sleep in a pram? It does annoy me when people see them as gods

If parents are happy that their child sleeps in a pram and you are happy to what right have ofsted got to over ride a parents wishes over something so minor and silly.

**acorns** · 11-10-2012, 10:52 PM

Wow, I started this thread years ago!! I now have 3, two 16mo sleep in pushchairs, one of which just screamed the house down (& much of the street) when I tried her in the cot = lots of stress for all of us, my other one would only sleep for 15mins at a time after lots of crying in the cot but will sleep for an hour or more in the pushchair, and my 10mo sleeps soundly in the cot. I've not had Ofsted yet but do risk assess every time I put them in the buggy and I think I would not be meeting the childrens needs if I were to place the two 16mo in cots just for them to get upset and refuse to sleep.

**hectors house** · 12-10-2012, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by sweets

You will find a study for and against every subject possible if you search enough

Pushchairs totally flat and semi laid back are absolutlely fine for sleeping in and so are sofas, children have been sleeping in/on them for years.

People need to remember that we don't work for OFSTED, they are not our employers! all they have are lots of stupid rules and no common sense. we run our own businesses, where does it say in the EYFS that childrencant sleep in a pram? It does annoy me when people see them as gods

If parents are happy that their child sleeps in a pram and you are happy to what right have ofsted got to over ride a parents wishes over something so minor and silly.

I logged on here today to add to the post and found you had already said the same as I was going to - it makes me cross that people quote Ofsted all the time for you can't do that and you can't do this - exactly the same as people say "Health and Safety say" - I was out the children collecting conkers the other day and this man stopped and jokingly said "you can't play conkers - health and safety says so" well if you look on the HSE website it actually says that "Health and Safety" is used as an excuse by schools, employers etc not to do something or to change the rules but by HSE at all - it also says they believe children should be allowed to explore and not be wrapped up in cotton wool. And surely if all these prams/buggies/baby carriers are that dangerous they should state THIS EQUIPMENT IS ONLY DESIGNED TO TRANSPORT YOUR CHILD - DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOW THEM TO FALL ASLEEP!

I wonder has anyone every told Ofsted to leave during an inspection?

**migimoo** · 12-10-2012, 12:08 PM

It seems to all depend on which Ofsted inspector you get and their personal opinion from the sound of it...at my inspection I explained that I have no room for a travel cot so if children fall asleep whilst out in the buggy they're left in there at the back of the living room-if a LO falls asleep indoors they are tucked up with their own blanket on my big,squishy corner sofa,parents are made aware of sleeping arrangements during registration but no permissions are signed,I have LO's from 9 months+...my OI was fine with this.

**Lana10** · 13-10-2012, 08:34 AM

Oh wow this thread just caught my eye.I mind 2 LO`s who are 20 months and I have had them from being a year old.They have always napped in the buggy in my hallway. I could`nt get them to settle in the travel cot they would just cry,and on Tuesday I have the 2 of them together and they nap after lunch.Parents know this is how they nap at my house and are happy with this.But now Im wondering if I need a risk assessment,letter from parents and a policy.(things I never thought I needed for naptime.)Definately food for thought !

**jackie 7** · 14-10-2012, 10:01 PM

I had a mindee who at 12 months didn't sleep much. He came to me from a friend who said rock him to sleep then pop him on sofa, I wasn't happy. I got him to sleep on a flat bed by patting him on his back in the kitcheen diner, then moved him to outside the room to sleeping with other kids in the sleep room/my sitting room. Parents amazed/thrilled. said their life was improved as he had a routine. If a travel cot is scary try a flat bed or matress on the floor.