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  1. #1
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    Hi all,

    So basically in a nutshell, a child has lost a shoe whilst in my care. We have looked everywhere for it but to no avail.

    The question is, am I liable for it?

    Thanks in advance


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    Ohhh thats a difficult one I know personally if i lose something i do always offer to replace it.
    When someone tells you nothing is impossible, tell them to go slam a revolving door

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    Quote Originally Posted by **Orchard CM** View Post
    Hi all,

    So basically in a nutshell, a child has lost a shoe whilst in my care. We have looked everywhere for it but to no avail.

    The question is, am I liable for it?

    Thanks in advance

    Yes, you are liable. The child, and anything they do whilst in your care, is your responsibility. So if they lose/damage/steal anything of theirs/yours/someone else’s whilst in your care, it’s your problem.

    What stage is this at? What has been said so far by you/parents? Are you in dispute?

    The best way to approach this may be to offer a contribution towards a replacement pair of shoes. Parents will often be glad of the gesture and then decline.
    Last edited by bunyip; 15-06-2018 at 11:12 AM.

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    From a legal point of view, you are probably not liable for the full cost of a brand new pair. You are most likely liable for the current value of the pair, which isn’t an awful lot: partly worn children’s shoes aren’t worth much.

    Mum may well feel differently.

    Is this likely to cause an argument?

    How you handle it should depend on other factors. Is it worth losing a client? OTOH, how do you want to balance that against not setting a precedent for being pushed around by mum?

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    Hi all,

    It is the child’s last day today as dad lost his job.

    So far I told Mum, oh has been out on his bike and we walked around the route twice yesterday after work. We called the minister of the church we went to and he opened up and looked and my friend cleans for one of the volunteers and I asked her to txt her and she hasn’t found it either. I explained to Mum I am trying my hardest because I am! She came in this morning with a kind of ‘well I’ll have to spend £30 before we go on holiday then’ to which I said nothing. The shoes are Clarks doodles and mucky, they wouldn’t be worth anything on eBay or whatever. Mum said she can’t undo the buckles but she can slide them off as she’s constantly doing it with her socks too. What’s to say that yesterday she didn’t learn to undo the buckle then??

    On one hand I see the responsibility, she took the shoe off in the pushchair and I didn’t see it. On the other hand if it was a sock or hat Mum wouldn’t be bothered it’s becuase they are £29 why she’s bothered. I’m not at fault for putting her in Clarks doodles?? She looses clips all the time and Mum doesn’t bat an eyelid. The value of the shoes is key here I think!! A nursery wouldn’t reimburse. How will I know if she buys the EXACT same shoe/size when she’s leaving today? What if she needs a new pair anyway?? Where do I draw the line?? These things happen all the time. It was a genuine accident, she took her shoe off a lost it.

    I’m really stuck as where to go next with this ???

    However I’m definitely going to type up a personal possessions policy....

    Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Last edited by **Orchard CM**; 15-06-2018 at 12:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bunyip View Post
    Yes, you are liable. The child, and anything they do whilst in your care, is your responsibility. So if they lose/damage/steal anything of theirs/yours/someone else’s whilst in your care, it’s your problem.

    What stage is this at? What has been said so far by you/parents? Are you in dispute?

    The best way to approach this may be to offer a contribution towards a replacement pair of shoes. Parents will often be glad of the gesture and then decline.
    I don’t totally agree with all this, it is my fault if a child rips his £80 Armani jeans on the park the first week of wearing them?? No!! I told Mum she shouldn’t have put him in them! If they break a toy a child has bought from home that’s that child’s/parents look out. If they bring a toy fine but if they want it to be safe it goes in their tray or on the side. If they don’t want other children to play with it that’s the option they have. My policy on personal belongings states this but not for lost things.

    Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Last edited by **Orchard CM**; 15-06-2018 at 11:57 AM.

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    The child is just over 2 by the way

    Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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    Oh this is such an awkward situation.

    Do you have a local fb page where you can ask if anyone has found it? I see posts all the time about lost shoes/cuddly toys etc.

    Did the child definitely lose it while you were out for a walk?

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    Quote Originally Posted by **Orchard CM** View Post
    I don’t totally agree with all this, it is my fault if a child rips his £80 Armani jeans on the park the first week of wearing them?? No!! I told Mum she shouldn’t have put him in them! If they break a toy a child has bought from home that’s that child’s/parents look out. If they bring a toy fine but if they want it to be safe it goes in their tray or on the side. If they don’t want other children to play with it that’s the option they have. My policy on personal belongings states this but not for lost things.

    Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    It’s not a question of fault, but you would be legally liable because you are responsible for the child (or any child under ten years) and anything they do, and anything they bring along with them: clothes, shoes, toys, electronic gizmos, the lot. I checked this with my friendly drinking-chum solicitor. That legal responsibility comes with the territory when we take responsibility for the child, and we cannot shake it off with any number of policies or disclaimers, not even if we get parents to apparently sign away their rights.

    A personal belongings policy is useful, but only to a limited extent. You can tell parents not to send, frinstance, high-value toys, electronic devices, anything potentially hazardous, etc. It’s also reasonable to say the children will encounter paint, messy food, mud, blood, etc. on a daily basis, so only send clothes they will be able to wash or not mind being stained. Then, if they arrive with something inappropriate, you’re within you rights to remove it, send it home or send the parent home to change the child into suitable clothing. I’ve had to do this with children who’ve arrived in princess costumes, party frocks, brand new team football shirts and even a bridesmaid's dress (for the love of doG!)

    But if you let the child in with that stuff, you accept responsibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by **Orchard CM** View Post
    Hi all,

    It is the child’s last day today as dad lost his job.

    So far I told Mum, oh has been out on his bike and we walked around the route twice yesterday after work. We called the minister of the church we went to and he opened up and looked and my friend cleans for one of the volunteers and I asked her to txt her and she hasn’t found it either. I explained to Mum I am trying my hardest because I am! She came in this morning with a kind of ‘well I’ll have to spend £30 before we go on holiday then’ to which I said nothing. The shoes are Clarks doodles and mucky, they wouldn’t be worth anything on eBay or whatever. Mum said she can’t undo the buckles but she can slide them off as she’s constantly doing it with her socks too. What’s to say that yesterday she didn’t learn to undo the buckle then??

    On one hand I see the responsibility, she took the shoe off in the pushchair and I didn’t see it. On the other hand if it was a sock or hat Mum wouldn’t be bothered it’s becuase they are £29 why she’s bothered. I’m not at fault for putting her in Clarks doodles?? She looses clips all the time and Mum doesn’t bat an eyelid. The value of the shoes is key here I think!! A nursery wouldn’t reimburse. How will I know if she buys the EXACT same shoe/size when she’s leaving today? What if she needs a new pair anyway?? Where do I draw the line?? These things happen all the time. It was a genuine accident, she took her shoe off a lost it.

    I’m really stuck as where to go next with this ???

    However I’m definitely going to type up a personal possessions policy....

    Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    It might be well to speak with your insurer/legal team, though it’s almost certainly not worth an insurance claim, as it’s a small sum in relation to the probable excess and effect on your no claims/premium in future years.

    The bigger concern may be mum's reaction and potential hit on your reputation if she goes off on one. You’re probably better placed than any of us to gauge that.

    Reading between the lines (which I confess is always a risky exercise) is it fair to say you both seem quite angry (?) and unwilling to compromise (?) which might not be good for business.

    It sounds like mum thinks she is entitled to a brand new replacement pair of shoes, whilst you think she's entitled to nothing. Both positions are incorrect, legally. I suspect mum may have already decided that, if she doesn’t get those new shoes paid for in full, she'll be letting everyone know about it: the usual sort of rubbish about 'bad CM' etc. Still, even if you give her the full amount she could still do the same, with added smugness for her own 'cleverness' in making you pay up. Sadly, people can be like that, especially at the end of a childcare arrangement.

    Legally, you were responsible even though they were cr4ppy, tatty things that the child had learned to unfasten (and it sounds like the poor mite had every reason to try and ditch them!) It’s hardly enough for mum to bother getting all legal over, since solicitors' fees cost a darned sight more than shoes.

    You have a responsibility to 'make good the loss'. That’s quite definitely not the full price of a brand new pair; Mum is entitled to the value of what was lost. ie. The value of some worn out filthy shoes.

    Personally, I’d want to make her a fair and reasonable offer for conscience's sake, if nothing else. Having done a quick 'sold items' search on eBay, those 'used' doodles fetch around £3-£7 plus carriage costs, even in good/very good condition . So IIWY I’d tell mum how sad it was the child lost the shoe, and make an offer of £5-£10 in consideration of the value of what was lost. If she then wants to get the lawyers in, you’ve made a perfectly reasonable, perhaps even a generous offer, considering the condition of the shoes. If she starts haggling, say politely but firmly that it’s a one-time offer, not the basis for bidding. It sounds like they needed replacing soon anyway, and she might just see the sense in accepting.

    If she takes the money, get her to sign for it. You can then put it through your accounts as a tax-deductible expense, and you have evidence that she accepted, in case she decides to get difficult later.

    If she starts bad-mouthing you, refer it to your legal support team. They may be prepared to send her a letter to 'cease and desist' or be threatened with an injunction or other court order.

    Finally, comfort yourself that mum won’t 'win' in the end. If the child can lose one shoe, they’ll sure as Hull lose a lot more and mum will be forking out for several more pairs in the near future, with nobody else to blame.
    Last edited by bunyip; 15-06-2018 at 05:41 PM.

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    This is so tricky.
    Doodles are perfect shoes for LO’s. I always had measured Clark’s, they were our children’s only shoes and I know are lots of children’s now too.
    So I don’t think you can say that they shouldn’t come in expensive shoes...they are not expensive for fashion, it’s because they are measured to fit a child’s feet.

    If you are looking for opinion, then in this situation I would offer to replace them as they had been lost on my watch, it was me who didn’t notice that the child had pulled it off. You have done your best to look for it so the parents will appreciate this, but this doesn’t take away that the shoe was lost whilst with you.

    Often when you automatically offer to pay for a new pair the parents are grateful, but decline.

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    Hi ladies,

    Mum arrived today (early to take her for new shoes) and I opened the door and said straight away I’m sorry we still can’t find it. She seemed fine and just said the thing that bothered her is the fact they are going away tomorrow. If it wasn’t for that then she wouldn’t be bothered. She said that she was taking her to be re measured anyway so I softened the convo into saying ‘they could have more designs, a more colourful pair for holiday’ etc etc and Mum took it all and said yes I thought that she could have a nice change. We said bye and gave her her presents etc and wished them a good holiday etc and she walked away looking happy.
    By the sounds of it she was getting her NEW shoes not replacement ones i.e a new size/design. I also checked the little ones toe in the shoe and it was a tight, she’s had the shoes about 4 months so you can imagine the state they are in - they are cream too!!! Perhaps Mum was going to buy her new ones soon anyway, who knows??
    I understand flora about doodles being great shoes, I have them for my son and love them, they look cute and are comfy for him but I think the point was if they were so special (regardless of price) then they aren’t really the thing to send to a childminders. My son wears play clothes that are clean but stained, I wouldn’t ever dress him in his best and I suppose I think parents think like me but perhaps not!
    Ive learnt my lesson without a doubt!!!

    Anyway it’s over with now thankgod!!! I still feel bad but I’ve done everything I could and pulled in favours left right and centre

    Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Last edited by **Orchard CM**; 15-06-2018 at 07:58 PM.

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    At least it's all ended well and it doesn't sound as if mum was overly bothered.

    Over the years I have lost a shoe or two and have always offered to replace them. Luckily the parents have always declined the offer - which is what I was hoping for!

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    So glad this ended well. No need to feel bad: these things happen.

    I hardly dare think of the extra miles I’ve walked, going back for dropped hats, shoes, dummies, socks, cuddly toys, etc. With certain children in the pushchair, I stop almost subconsciously every hundred yards or so to run through the mental inventory of what they came out with.

    Cuddles and comfort objects are the worst. We had one mindee who was extremely attached to a cuddly which had come from Disney Florida, a limited edition. She lost it no end of times, but we were always lucky and found it again, though a couple of times it meant phone calls and return trips to places we’d been. Mum lost it and thought it had gone for good. LO was inconsolable so mum ordered a replacement from the US of A, which cost over £50 with postage and import costs. Of course, they then found the original one in their house a couple of weeks later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bunyip View Post
    .

    Cuddles and comfort objects are the worst. We had one mindee who was extremely attached to a cuddly which had come from Disney Florida, a limited edition. She lost it no end of times, but we were always lucky and found it again, though a couple of times it meant phone calls and return trips to places we’d been. Mum lost it and thought it had gone for good. LO was inconsolable so mum ordered a replacement from the US of A, which cost over £50 with postage and import costs. Of course, they then found the original one in their house a couple of weeks later.
    My grandson has a favourite cuddly. It's not often taken out of the house, but I've got a spare one hidden in the bottom of my wardrobe, just in case!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    My grandson has a favourite cuddly. It's not often taken out of the house, but I've got a spare one hidden in the bottom of my wardrobe, just in case!!
    my DD, when little had ( and SHHHHHHH! still does now! ) a small cuddly bunny - we tried very hard to never take it out with us, or if we did, to leave it in the car ... but we lost it and found it a couple of times ... so eventually I managed to find another one, and bought it, and put it away in the cupboard .... 11 yrs later IT IS STILL THERE ... because somehow, from the moment it arrived, she never took it out/moved it from her bed I'm now keeping it until she (hopefully) has children of her own! ( and she doesn't know I have it! )

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    My DD had a little monkey but we never took it out with us. One day, we were shopping and we saw an identical monkey for sale. She immediately gave it a big hug and was beyond distraught when I tried to get her to leave the shop without it. She just couldn't understand why I was being so cruel! Rightly or wrongly, I bought it, thinking that it was a good idea to have a spare, just in case. She was so relieved, bless her. A few nights later she threw up on the original monkey and this time it was me who was relieved that we had the other one as a back up! I washed the original monkey and years later she still has no idea that she has two of the little guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loocyloo View Post
    I'm now keeping it until she (hopefully) has children of her own! ( and she doesn't know I have it! )
    That's a lovely idea. I'll have to leave a note somewhere because by the time my grandson has children I'll be too old to remember where it is

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maza View Post
    My DD had a little monkey but we never took it out with us. One day, we were shopping and we saw an identical monkey for sale. She immediately gave it a big hug and was beyond distraught when I tried to get her to leave the shop without it. She just couldn't understand why I was being so cruel! Rightly or wrongly, I bought it, thinking that it was a good idea to have a spare, just in case. She was so relieved, bless her. A few nights later she threw up on the original monkey and this time it was me who was relieved that we had the other one as a back up! I washed the original monkey and years later she still has no idea that she has two of the little guys.
    That's really sweet!

    My grandsons original toy has been washed so is a bit floppy now. If he does ever lose it I wonder if he'll notice the difference if we replace it with a brand new one!

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    It does make me laugh when we digress!

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