8 year old schoolies behaviour

[alex__17]

I thought my 3 year olds tantrums were bad but had one of the worst afternoons with schoolies ever and I'd be grateful for any advice as I've not had much experience of dealing with behaviour for this age group and its not like I can sit them on the time out step like a toddler!

Only on a Thursday I collect 2 sets of sibling girls (one set aged 8&4 the others aged 8&5).
Behaviour hasn't been too bad, little ones tested me a bit at first but respond really well to positive praise and are good as gold now, but their older sisters are just so mean and nasty and today was by far the worst they've been, I really felt I'd give notice if it carries on, but would then lose their younger sisters too which is a lot to lose and such a shame as they're all nice kids when not being so horrible!

So today the walk home didn't start well with them first hanging back for miles, then running ahead, knowing we have a no running rule as the younger ones follow and roads are busy. They then hid, and then wanted us all to walk to their house where their mum was working from home and then started threatening they'd go on their own... Anyway managed to get home, they hoarded all the cardboard boxes and sheets and said they were building a den, we went outside and they yelled at the little ones they couldn't join in so I got them a load of den building bits and we built one for the younger ones.

They then kept running over to pull down the younger ones den, poured water over it, threw chairs at the kids etc etc, emptied a load of hay on the grass then chucked it into the little ones den so they thought they would have to clear it up. Then when dinner was nearly ready I asked them to clear up, the older ones got all stroppy and started refusing to tidy up, I reminded them they'd agreed to clear up any mess and they did a bit of eye rolling and huffing but started, the second my back was turned they were chucking it all onto the little ones den, never mind if it hurt them or broke stuff, and just being so mean!!

Day ended with one older sibling cracking her little sister hard over the head with a wooden pole, when her mum said it was time to leave, and the other usually tells her mum to go home but today gave her a massive cuddle all smiles and her mum said 'what have you done', gave her a brief run down and the child burst into floods of tears...

Anyway, what can I do?! They had plenty to do but were still more interested in being nasty to the younger ones who were playing so nicely together and not annoying the older ones for a change.

Sorry for the mammoth post I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do, it was only 2.5 hours but every minute there was something wrong and just made the whole day seem dreadful!

[sarah707]

The Eyfs is clear that if older children are impacting on outcomes for the little ones we need to put the los first ... ie. give notice to the older children.

I know it's hard when they are siblings but you will be inspected on how you are supporting learning for the Eyfs aged children during inspection and you can't be dealing with that sort of behaviour

If parents can't bring their children in line for you and they are not bothered about the consequences I don't think you have any options xx

[alex__17]

It's annoying as we had got to a place where behaviour has been actually fairly ok recently, everyone had settled down, I'm planning on speaking to mum's, gave them a brief run down but am going to say it can't repeat like that.
It's just the attitude they have, I would never have dared talk to another adult like that, gave my own parents plenty of grief but never had the nerve to do it to a teacher or another adult like that, surprised me to be honest.
Will speak to mum's and hope next week is an improvement, any advice for what to do at the time? Is there anything I could do to stop it happening at the time? They did seem to feed off each other and get worse over the afternoon, just depressing really

[blue bear]

You probably do all these things but little things that work with my gang:
Pair an older with a younger (not sibling). For walk home so the older can only walk as fast as the younger one can go and it gives a sense of responsibility.
Older ones help make tea, take turns so splitting them up, one under your immediate supervision at all times, mine like peeling potatoes/veg, cleaning the table, making pretty napkin creations for the table, mashing......
The one who hasn't helped make tea sets the table.
Tidy up time a competition between two groups either one family against the other or girls versus I boys etc...
Lots and lots of praise, praise absolutely every thing. Walking nicely from the play ground, a nice smile, being helpful, hanging up coat.... Anything and everything especially things you would just expect them to do.
Rewards, so if you tidy up before the alarm goes off after tea you can have a DVD, if you can all walk home without a single person being told off we will have popcorn with our DVD today, right go to the toilet if we can get to the top of the hill all together holding hands and walking nicely we will go to the park for half an hour. If we have four good days Monday to Thursday on Friday I will pack a picnic tea do we will eat at the park ......
Before you set off any where or start a new activity set out the rules and consequences and carry through, if you promise to do something always do it whether that be a positive or negative, if you can't do something you have promised then explain at the earliest opportunity and re schedule or re negotiate what you will do instead.
No shouting, talk to the calmly if they are rowdy whisper, when cross get quieter it has more power than shouting, this age tend to turn off to nagging and loud voices.
Look at. Your own behaviour and expectations often children feed off the adult and if the adult changes it can have a dramatic effect on child's behaviour.
Set a realistic time frame for behaviour to change and if all else fails you will have no choice but to give notice.

[alex__17]

Thank you so much for all that I'm going to write it all down and plan examples for next week, I totally agree my own voice and attitude plays a massive part, I was taken aback by the attitude yesterday and did resort to nagging as things went from bad to worse... I also have no idea what an appropriate consequence is at that age, they don't really watch tv with me, they only come the one day a week, I feel like I should have just made them come inside but the biggest fuss was about them having to tidy up and I think if they make as much mess as they did it's not unreasonable to ask them to clear it up, so bringing them indoors would have actually been what they wanted...
Let's hope it was a bad day and things return to ok next time

[blue bear]

I'd have brought the little ones in and made them tidy up both their own mess and the little ones. This age can be very trying and with them ganging up together it makes it worse, if you can get one on side the other usually follows.