Mindees starting school

[mumofone]

Have any of you continued to mind a child that's started school? Have you written up new contracts and terms for this? I'm worried my best customer will pay me half what they currently do when child starts school but can't think of a fair way around this? Do I let them go and replace with a full time EYFS child or keep them on but introduce a minimum number of hours/higher hourly rate? It seems so unfair on them but at the same time I need to make a living...

[AliceK]

I still have a child who is now in year 2 at school who started with me when he was 3 yrs old. It's because I don't take on after school children so I had the space to keep him on and still fill his EYFS place. However I have 2 children currently who will be leaving for school in Sept and if I fill their EY;s spaces then I wont have space for them after school so they will unfortunately have to go elsewhere.

xx

[moggy]

Once they are in full-time school (proper '5-days-week Reception year', not just pre-school) they do not count in your EY numbers- so you can have 3 little ones + the full-time-schoolie. As long as you stay within the total 6 under 8s. Re-read the EYFS section on ratios so it is clear for you.

I would make new contracts (or rather adapt existing contract) and discuss new fee structure for before/after school care and school holidays. Rates are often different for before/after school- sometimes a flat rate including a snack or meal etc, and can work out higher than an EYFS-hourly rate.

Is this for September 2016? Good to raise it now- but surely they do not know if the chosen school has offered them a place yet? (usually around April before the Sept start).

[mumofone]

Once they are in full-time school (proper '5-days-week Reception year', not just pre-school) they do not count in your EY numbers- so you can have 3 little ones + the full-time-schoolie. As long as you stay within the total 6 under 8s. Re-read the EYFS section on ratios so it is clear for you. I would make new contracts (or rather adapt existing contract) and discuss new fee structure for before/after school care and school holidays. Rates are often different for before/after school- sometimes a flat rate including a snack or meal etc, and can work out higher than an EYFS-hourly rate. Is this for September 2016? Good to raise it now- but surely they do not know if the chosen school has offered them a place yet? (usually around April before the Sept start).

Thanks moggy, Yep I'm fine with the ratios.
They will find out in April but I think we know they will get their place in this case.
Oh maybe I need to do a flat rate...this is probably better than an hourly rate...if they've been on an hourly rate before they will draw comparisons though I guess.
What do people generally charge for an after school flat rate? I'm in the south :-)

[blue bear]

I do new contracts when they start school. I do a hourly rate through o-4 that stays the same as long as they don't change the contract (I pitch my initial hourly rate a bit higher than the average in the beginning)
If they change the contract, go part time or change to an after school place then the new contract is at my new current rate whatever that might be, this is pitched at a worth the while rate and stays that way unless they change the contract again.
It's a bit swings and roundabouts, yes I might loose out if they stay with me until they go to senior school but it tends to make parents think twice about changing hours and swapping the contract around so more stable.

[bunyip]

Once they are in full-time school (proper '5-days-week Reception year', not just pre-school) they do not count in your EY numbers- so you can have 3 little ones + the full-time-schoolie. As long as you stay within the total 6 under 8s. Re-read the EYFS section on ratios so it is clear for you.

I would make new contracts (or rather adapt existing contract) and discuss new fee structure for before/after school care and school holidays. Rates are often different for before/after school- sometimes a flat rate including a snack or meal etc, and can work out higher than an EYFS-hourly rate.

Is this for September 2016? Good to raise it now- but surely they do not know if the chosen school has offered them a place yet? (usually around April before the Sept start).

I absolutely agree with this.

As they won't count against your EY numbers, the only reasons for not keeping the child on, as far as I can see, are if you just want to concentrate on EY and have no schoolies, such as:-

• You might not want to have your day book-ended with school runs.
• Car space (if motorised) or dragging EY children out in all weathers (if on foot)
• Unhappy about having too broad an age range, which might be tricky with different activities, interests, etc.
• etc.

If you're prepared to offer the continuity of school runs once EY children start school, that can be a big attraction for parents. Conversely, it can be a big put-off if you refuse. One key point is to be clear that children don't always get into their parents' first choice of school and that you service a particular school: it's rarely practicable to try dashing around multiple schools.

[mumofone]

I absolutely agree with this. As they won't count against your EY numbers, the only reasons for not keeping the child on, as far as I can see, are if you just want to concentrate on EY and have no schoolies, such as:-[*]You might not want to have your day book-ended with school runs.[*]Car space (if motorised) or dragging EY children out in all weathers (if on foot)[*]Unhappy about having too broad an age range, which might be tricky with different activities, interests, etc.[*]etc. If you're prepared to offer the continuity of school runs once EY children start school, that can be a big attraction for parents. Conversely, it can be a big put-off if you refuse. One key point is to be clear that children don't always get into their parents' first choice of school and that you service a particular school: it's rarely practicable to try dashing around multiple schools.

Sorry just to clarify...I intend to keep the child on, I already have a schoolie im just wondering how to charge them seeing as they've been on an hourly rate and attending for more hours but when they start school their hours will significantly drop with me so I'm gonna lose out financially quite a bit....

I know it's the case that children often don't get their first choice of school but confident they will (I won't bore you with the ins and outs of how I know this but i do!). I wouldn't do multiple s jo pick ups because it just wouldn't be practical for me.

I'm just wondering how to charge them really, I don't know whether to -

Charge a flag after school rate
Introduce a minimum number of hours
Increase my hourly rate

Etc

[bunyip]

I'm no longer in the South, but the following my help as a general snapshot.

My usual hourly rate varies between parents, but take £4 as a nominal figure.

I charge:

£10 per day for before or after school, including up to 2 hours' care and breakfast or tea, as appropriate.

£15 per day for before and after school, including up to 3 hours' care and breakfast and tea.

Extra hours would be c£4ph, but has never been needed.

I no longer muck about arguing over any departure from that when it comes to schoolies. So, no discounts for siblings, fewer hours, not wanting meal, etc.

Tbh, I offer before/after school especially as I like to offer the continuity if they've been with me as wee ones, but I can take or leave it.

[redtiger21]

Could you not just charge them the rate that you charge the other school-age child that you care for? What do you charge your other school children?

I've had one who went from early years to a school child, and what I did was I kept the hourly rate the same, but made it clear that my breakfast&after school clubs are charged at a minimum of one hour and two hours respectively- breakfast free if required and if arriving before 8am, and after school snack included; dinner is an additional small fee, but only served after 5pm so they would need to book additional time to allow for this. Hope this helps!

[bunyip]

Could you not just charge them the rate that you charge the other school-age child that you care for? What do you charge your other school children?

Exactly.

Now why didn't I think of that?

[Simona]

Exactly.

Now why didn't I think of that?

One thing that keeps popping into my head about this is...what about checking with any schools or nursery or preschool who offer wraparound care? what do they charge?

Many schools do not offer holiday care...so that is a plus for cms who can but...of course...the govt intends to let parents and providers get the schools to open that service.

Food for thought maybe?

[bunyip]

Two nurseries do before/after and holiday care, serving our village school.

One is pretty pleasant (I have had shared care arrangements with them for some EY children).

The other is more of an 'after school workhouse' complete with Value beans and a well-worn Power Rangers video.

Both are doing it way more cheaply than I would deem worth the candle if I had to match their fees.

[Simona]

Two nurseries do before/after and holiday care, serving our village school.

One is pretty pleasant (I have had shared care arrangements with them for some EY children).

The other is more of an 'after school workhouse' complete with Value beans and a well-worn Power Rangers video.

Both are doing it way more cheaply than I would deem worth the candle if I had to match their fees.

I wasn't thinking in terms of 'matching' their fees...I was thinking of bettering the offer and provision....which I think cms can do very easily indeed.