advise needed please
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  1. #1
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    Default advise needed please

    So I kind of understand the exceptions of ratios i.e siblings, children changing days etc
    I have a little boy 2.5yo and his little sister is 7 months and mum has just informed me she wants her to start in march instead of may when she orginall had mentioned, this means I would have 2 under 1 3 days a week t( the siblings are doing mon, wed and thurs )this is allowed right aslong as I inform all parents and risk assess?
    thanks in advance xx

  2. #2
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure you're not allowed two children under 1 unless you can prove mitigating circumstances, i.e. You're caring for twins or one of the babies is your own child..

  3. #3
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    I thought them circumstances were sibling exception?

  4. #4
    Simona Guest

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    Siblings = continuity of care

  5. #5
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    I think im being really thick but im scared to get in trouble and have a parent that is concened about there being 2 under 1

    on a Monday I will have 2.5yo 10m old and 8m (only in pm)

    Wednesday 2.5yo 6m old and a 10m old

    Thursday 3yo 2.5yo 10m old and a 7m old (pm only)

    Friday 2 3year olds

    can someone please clarify what I need to do other than risk assessing and informing parents on the day when there is 4 under 5
    do I need to ring ofsted and get whatever a variation is? or ask for one? thanks in advance ! x

  6. #6
    Simona Guest

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    Variations do not exist anymore....cms are allowed 6 children under 8 as per your certificate.

    Having said that t he ratio for cms is a bit obscure in the EYFS ...however...you would be better off to call Ofsted itself and see if they would help.....considering you have a parent who is not happy with you looking after 2 babies...that is unfortunately a huge hurdle

    You need to listen to that parent so that he/she is reassured....and see what can be done

    Cms are often terrified of 'being in trouble' when looking at their ratio....unfortunately that has been the theme here a lot.

    Go for professional help...or even ring the DfE if you feel you want the ratio for cms explained....let us know what they say so we can compare notes

    It is totally up to you and Ofsted will say so what you choose to do...Ofsted are only going to consider you providing equal care to 'all children' on the day....as said...one parent concerned on this is a major barrier

    Good luck !

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    I don't blame you for being unsure, its taken a LONG time for everyone to get their heads around the variation rules.

    (Truthfully, I thought we couldn't have 2xunder 1, so even I'm unsure lol ) But Simona knows a lot about rules and regs as she keeps well up to date with everything

    If you feel confident about having the two little ones and have all appropriate items such as a double buggy, high chairs etc then I would do a written letter of reassurance to all parents

    Is this just going to be for 2 months? (Mar-May) If its just for two months then tell them that, and let them know you are available for them to come to you if they have any concerns. Its not a huge amount of time to be having two under 12m.

    Ofsted wont help, all they will do is point you in the direction of the 'rules' and tell you to read them.
    Time Out.. The perfect time for thinking about what you're going to destroy next.

  8. #8
    Simona Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCrakers View Post
    I don't blame you for being unsure, its taken a LONG time for everyone to get their heads around the variation rules.

    (Truthfully, I thought we couldn't have 2xunder 1, so even I'm unsure lol ) But Simona knows a lot about rules and regs as she keeps well up to date with everything

    If you feel confident about having the two little ones and have all appropriate items such as a double buggy, high chairs etc then I would do a written letter of reassurance to all parents

    Is this just going to be for 2 months? (Mar-May) If its just for two months then tell them that, and let them know you are available for them to come to you if they have any concerns. Its not a huge amount of time to be having two under 12m.

    Ofsted wont help, all they will do is point you in the direction of the 'rules' and tell you to read them.
    It has been very hard due to the obscure way in which it is written in the EYFS...one paragraph for cms compared to 2 pages for the rest of the sector.

    As you know I have questioned Ofsted personally at every OBC on this...and have a huge chain of emails from the DfE confirming what the ratio for cms are all about.
    Next OBC in a week's time means I will question again.

    The fear is that cms will be 'downgraded' for self variating...Ofsted have confirmed that has happened but only because the care of all children has been compromised....and it depends on what the inspector sees on the inspection day.

    When looking at ratios parents have to agree on cms taking on more children...if one parent is unhappy that could lead to that parent making a complaint...that is why it is best to approach Ofsted.
    On the other hand the parent needing continuity of care will be put out because she may have to look for alternative care or split her children with 2 providers...not a very helpful situation

    Often Ofsted say it is up to us ...and it certainly is...but many times they can be helpful....worth giving it a shot?


    This ratio is an ongoing issue and we all hope it will be resolved when EYFS is updated again
    Thank you for your reply

  9. #9
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    thanks ladies im unsure about ringing ofsted because I feel that will make them come and inspect me super soon! (paranoid) once may comes there will only be one under 1 each day and on a thurs 4 under 5 but still only one of these under 1 so stressful just want to do the right thing. as to unhappy parent mum was ok to be honest dad was the one that was concerned and if im honest I feel like they want a nanny as they are surprised how quick ive got full and was loving paying little for 1 to one care I am trying to get them to change there day so then this wouldn't be a problem but they are reluctant even though mum doesn't work :S x

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    My understanding is that you need to have taken parents views into account - thats not the same as them agreeing!
    But you do have to be able to demostrate to ofsted that care for all children isnt compromised . If youre sure in yourself that you can offer the same standard of service that you already do , then tell the parent this , and how you will deal with the practicalities , write up a quick RA , and go ahead. I have had 2 under ones a few times over the years , my original certificate said 2 under 1s ....its just about gtting the routines and practicalities sorted. And the benefits for the babies of growing up alongside another are great too.

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  12. #11
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    thanks that helpful. its difficult as the parent who isn't over the moon about the idea only comes 2 afts a week the sibling come 3 full days x

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    ok so good news ish.. the parent who wasn't 100% happy after I sent a msg explaining once I advertise my last space there will be no room for a shifty if she is unhappy when siblings baby sis arrives in march she came yesterday and said they would like to stay as they are until march then the week the other baby starts swap to a tues and a fri PM which means I will only have 2 under 1 on a Wednesday and that isn't until march and even then the oldest will be nearly 11m I feel MUCH better

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessymax View Post
    ok so good news ish.. the parent who wasn't 100% happy after I sent a msg explaining once I advertise my last space there will be no room for a shifty if she is unhappy when siblings baby sis arrives in march she came yesterday and said they would like to stay as they are until march then the week the other baby starts swap to a tues and a fri PM which means I will only have 2 under 1 on a Wednesday and that isn't until march and even then the oldest will be nearly 11m I feel MUCH better
    Ah delighted it's worked out!

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  16. #14
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    Default

    :-) great x

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