Thoughts on funded hours

[samb]

I offer funding. It works out at 30% less than my hourly rate. I charge an extra 20% on top of normal rate for any hours used in addition to the funded hours plus I charge a fee for food if they use funded hours. However even if the parents use their full funding with me plus more hours they've never used enough that it makes it even at the end of the year. I don't feel I can charge even more for extra hours especially as in the holidays it is really high for parents to pay. Mostly though my families do less than 15 hours with me anyway when they use funding. So then I'm totally out of pocket. Plus you can't charge a retainer if they don't want to use holidays and so this year I kept open 2 lots (siblings) of 15 hours a week for funding (over 3 days) from when funded period ended in July to funded period starting in sept which was 2 months for nothing. They came back for a week and then decided to go to preschool. As it was before Headcount day the la let them leave and start preschool and then there's no notice period either. It has made me extremely wary about funding. It's not the first time I've had problems. I had 1 leave part way through funding period to begin a school nursery and although I worked right up til he left I was sent an invoice as the nursery had been given the funding even though I had been the one to work it. It doesn't help that they pay 2 payments a term too rather than monthly but I can live with that if it all goes well.

I've had to give my assistant notice due to the funded children leaving without notice and am now back to working alone.

I care for twins for 2 days a week and I have worked out when they use funding with me based on how I charge I would get just under 1k a year less despite the parents paying an inflated fee for additional hours and for their food which I include in fees at the moment. That's based on them using 15 hours of funding each. If they end up being allowed to use 30 hours term time and continue to just use 20 hours all year I will then make £2100 less a year. And if they decided to increase so they use the full 30 hours funded term time and stay with the 20 hours in holidays and all current pricing remains the same I would lose £4.5k a year than someone paying my usual rate. So yes I am one who may well pull out of the scheme as I'm wondering if it's better to just stop care for those children and take on new ones. Of course I then risk having no work. I do feel I have to choose between a lower income or risk no income. Which is just wrong. Again how does that help this working parent?
I do feel it is about getting adults into work rather than benefitting children. 15 hours I agree with is for the children but 30 hours surely is for the economy not the children.

Maybe I should offer a different fee structure like i will offer 50% of the hours as funded and then charge a much higher fee to make up the difference? I don't know

[BallyH]

I offer funding. It works out at 30% less than my hourly rate. I charge an extra 20% on top of normal rate for any hours used in addition to the funded hours plus I charge a fee for food if they use funded hours. However even if the parents use their full funding with me plus more hours they've never used enough that it makes it even at the end of the year. I don't feel I can charge even more for extra hours especially as in the holidays it is really high for parents to pay. Mostly though my families do less than 15 hours with me anyway when they use funding. So then I'm totally out of pocket. Plus you can't charge a retainer if they don't want to use holidays and so this year I kept open 2 lots (siblings) of 15 hours a week for funding (over 3 days) from when funded period ended in July to funded period starting in sept which was 2 months for nothing. They came back for a week and then decided to go to preschool. As it was before Headcount day the la let them leave and start preschool and then there's no notice period either. It has made me extremely wary about funding. It's not the first time I've had problems. I had 1 leave part way through funding period to begin a school nursery and although I worked right up til he left I was sent an invoice as the nursery had been given the funding even though I had been the one to work it. It doesn't help that they pay 2 payments a term too rather than monthly but I can live with that if it all goes well.

I've had to give my assistant notice due to the funded children leaving without notice and am now back to working alone.

I care for twins for 2 days a week and I have worked out when they use funding with me based on how I charge I would get just under 1k a year less despite the parents paying an inflated fee for additional hours and for their food which I include in fees at the moment. That's based on them using 15 hours of funding each. If they end up being allowed to use 30 hours term time and continue to just use 20 hours all year I will then make £2100 less a year. And if they decided to increase so they use the full 30 hours funded term time and stay with the 20 hours in holidays and all current pricing remains the same I would lose £4.5k a year than someone paying my usual rate. So yes I am one who may well pull out of the scheme as I'm wondering if it's better to just stop care for those children and take on new ones. Of course I then risk having no work. I do feel I have to choose between a lower income or risk no income. Which is just wrong. Again how does that help this working parent?
I do feel it is about getting adults into work rather than benefitting children. 15 hours I agree with is for the children but 30 hours surely is for the economy not the children.

Maybe I should offer a different fee structure like i will offer 50% of the hours as funded and then charge a much higher fee to make up the difference? I don't know

I feel your confusion! Also not sure what to do. Think I'll wait to see what the new offer is then decide. But raising my hourly rate won't work for all my families. One child is just on a one day contract, as I share childcare with both grandparents, so I could charge her an hourly rate of say £20 but if mum wants it all in funding it's useless.

[Simona]

I offer funding. It works out at 30% less than my hourly rate. I charge an extra 20% on top of normal rate for any hours used in addition to the funded hours plus I charge a fee for food if they use funded hours. However even if the parents use their full funding with me plus more hours they've never used enough that it makes it even at the end of the year. I don't feel I can charge even more for extra hours especially as in the holidays it is really high for parents to pay. Mostly though my families do less than 15 hours with me anyway when they use funding. So then I'm totally out of pocket. Plus you can't charge a retainer if they don't want to use holidays and so this year I kept open 2 lots (siblings) of 15 hours a week for funding (over 3 days) from when funded period ended in July to funded period starting in sept which was 2 months for nothing. They came back for a week and then decided to go to preschool. As it was before Headcount day the la let them leave and start preschool and then there's no notice period either. It has made me extremely wary about funding. It's not the first time I've had problems. I had 1 leave part way through funding period to begin a school nursery and although I worked right up til he left I was sent an invoice as the nursery had been given the funding even though I had been the one to work it. It doesn't help that they pay 2 payments a term too rather than monthly but I can live with that if it all goes well.

I've had to give my assistant notice due to the funded children leaving without notice and am now back to working alone.

I care for twins for 2 days a week and I have worked out when they use funding with me based on how I charge I would get just under 1k a year less despite the parents paying an inflated fee for additional hours and for their food which I include in fees at the moment. That's based on them using 15 hours of funding each. If they end up being allowed to use 30 hours term time and continue to just use 20 hours all year I will then make £2100 less a year. And if they decided to increase so they use the full 30 hours funded term time and stay with the 20 hours in holidays and all current pricing remains the same I would lose £4.5k a year than someone paying my usual rate. So yes I am one who may well pull out of the scheme as I'm wondering if it's better to just stop care for those children and take on new ones. Of course I then risk having no work. I do feel I have to choose between a lower income or risk no income. Which is just wrong. Again how does that help this working parent?
I do feel it is about getting adults into work rather than benefitting children. 15 hours I agree with is for the children but 30 hours surely is for the economy not the children.

Maybe I should offer a different fee structure like i will offer 50% of the hours as funded and then charge a much higher fee to make up the difference? I don't know

I believe you are right...wait and see what the new offer is then decide if it will work for you or not.

You say you lose 30% and I am not sure what you charge but if the govt does not sort this out we will be going round and round.
Nurseries have done exactly that...where they lose in funding they have increased in other hours...cms will need to do the same

From a cynical point of view the govt is busy cutting tax credits while promising 30 hours of childcare...I suppose the savings from tax credits...4bn... will go to childcare which in underfunded by 1.7bn?...isn't that robbing Peter to give to Paul?

[samb]

Totally agree Simona, just seems like the government are having to suddenly snatch any money ready to undertake the 30 hours promise. So sad. I charge £6.20 (all inclusive) and funding is £4.15. I am in surrey

[Simona]

Totally agree Simona, just seems like the government are having to suddenly snatch any money ready to undertake the 30 hours promise. So sad. I charge £6.20 (all inclusive) and funding is £4.15. I am in surrey

Good grief...the Lords have defied the govt last night!...what shall we expect now? which Paul will have some money taken from him to balance the books for the chancellor?

Yes you do lose a great deal so you need to reflect on the future once you have that magic offer from the govt?
£4.15 is very little so the funding here at £3.60 is actually immoral...why do providers put up with it puzzles me?

Out of curiosity it would be interesting to find out what parents think of the 30 hours ...according to the DfE they are ALL very eager to start now!!!...is that true?

I wonder if any cm is doing ...or will do a survey to gather parents' intentions ...how many would use the 30 hours...do they understand what it means in term of funding, how funding wprks, how much providers get? etc etc.

Do parents understand that 30 hours is worth £5000 to the according to the govt? and that is on top of the £2000 they will get when the Tax Free Childcare scheme kicks in?


Good luck whatever you decide to do!