4 year 9 mos mindee wetting himself
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  1. #1
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    Default 4 year 9 mos mindee wetting himself

    hey all, I am hoping for a bit of advice.

    I look after a brother and sister, she is 8 and he is 4 years 9 mos. I have looked after them now for a year and a half and he has been potty trained from before that with his previous childminder.

    About a year ago he started to wet himself and sometimes poo in his pants. Usually its 97% pee/3 % poo so you could say the pooing isn't an issue.

    When he first began to do it I spoke to his mum after a while and asked that she visit the health visitor for advice and to get his urine checked as he may have an infection and that could be why he wets.

    About the wetting...he doesn't tell you when he does it and if you ask him if he has wet himself he will lie and say he hasn't even when you can clearly see his trousers are wet at the front or the back. He also does it at home, at his grannys and sometimes during the night.

    I have tried lots to try and help him stop. Reward charts, giving him stickers if he doesn't wet, we have tried taking away toys, naughty step, standing in a corner, standing against the wall. One day his mum asked me to smack him and I refused of course!

    I had my childminding assessment in november last year and I discussed this with my visiting social worker. She asked that I press the mum to make an appointment with the doctor to do tests etc and get behavioural advice. However the mum just dodged the appointment and didn't go. my next assessment is booked for september, I fear the social worker will ask me how he is getting on as I had to tell her, she will want to take it further.

    He went for his preschool jabs on tuesday, ( a year too late) and she said she has asked the doctor who has requested a urine sample, i fear they won't do it and the doctor won't follow up.

    I am really at the end of my tether, I have assured him lots of times that I won't be mad or angry if he wets himself as long as he tells me immediately. His mum has said same, we've also asked if he likes coming to me, he says he does. I do worry he has other issues as he just doens't seem to get it. Also he finds it very hard to communicate verbally and has other behavioural issues like constantly doing what he knows is wrong, and telling lies.

    Its getting to the stage where the other kids are fed up too. We had a lovely day at the park followed by mcdonalds, he was so well behaved and then wet himself in the car on the way home. he didn't tell, even goes to the toilet when asked to and comes back down not reporting he is wet.

    Any help or suggestions would be appreciated, also can anyone tell me if I should be recording or getting parents to sign everytime he wets? I know playgroup does that with him. He is starting school is September, I hope that if he doesn't it a few times in school maybe he will stop out of embarassment.

    I just don't know what else to do!

    Can anyone advise

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    I am never convinced punishing a child is the right way to deal with this sort of thing - it's not very respectful and I do try to involve the children and show them respect when things go wrong.

    It's not a healthy situation when a child is wetting. Parents need to take control of the situation. You should be writing down every incident - see if you can spot a pattern if you record the time - but it is up to parents to follow up and get some help.

    Maybe explain to them - school will want to know what steps you are taking to stop this happening - you need a referral to a continence nurse asap ...

    See if they will tackle it x

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    Please check out the website ERIC, and get mum to check it out too. It will give you lots of tips and help you to understand why he might be doing it. If he has got an underlying problem then no amount of embarrassment in reception will be able to fix it, poor thing. It really does need to be investigated - I can't bear to think of the poor child being asked to stand in a corner etc for wetting himself.

    I would also say that you need to be monitoring how often he has a wee (on the loo or in his pants) and then you can get an idea of how often he needs to go and pre-empt it.

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    Thank you for the replies so far, just to clarify, he doesn't get punished for wetting himself. He get punished for not telling or for lying, quite a few times he will go for hours wet and even go to the toilet and still pull his wet stuff back on.

    Had a lengthy conversation with dad today at pick up. They are at the breaking point with it. Seems like seeking outside advice would be wise so I will definitely look into Eric and pass it on to Mum and dad.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by catanmax View Post
    hey all, I am hoping for a bit of advice.

    I look after a brother and sister, she is 8 and he is 4 years 9 mos. I have looked after them now for a year and a half and he has been potty trained from before that with his previous childminder.

    About a year ago he started to wet himself and sometimes poo in his pants. Usually its 97% pee/3 % poo so you could say the pooing isn't an issue.

    When he first began to do it I spoke to his mum after a while and asked that she visit the health visitor for advice and to get his urine checked as he may have an infection and that could be why he wets.

    About the wetting...he doesn't tell you when he does it and if you ask him if he has wet himself he will lie and say he hasn't even when you can clearly see his trousers are wet at the front or the back. He also does it at home, at his grannys and sometimes during the night.

    I have tried lots to try and help him stop. Reward charts, giving him stickers if he doesn't wet, we have tried taking away toys, naughty step, standing in a corner, standing against the wall. One day his mum asked me to smack him and I refused of course!

    I had my childminding assessment in november last year and I discussed this with my visiting social worker. She asked that I press the mum to make an appointment with the doctor to do tests etc and get behavioural advice. However the mum just dodged the appointment and didn't go. my next assessment is booked for september, I fear the social worker will ask me how he is getting on as I had to tell her, she will want to take it further.

    He went for his preschool jabs on tuesday, ( a year too late) and she said she has asked the doctor who has requested a urine sample, i fear they won't do it and the doctor won't follow up.

    I am really at the end of my tether, I have assured him lots of times that I won't be mad or angry if he wets himself as long as he tells me immediately. His mum has said same, we've also asked if he likes coming to me, he says he does. I do worry he has other issues as he just doens't seem to get it. Also he finds it very hard to communicate verbally and has other behavioural issues like constantly doing what he knows is wrong, and telling lies.

    Its getting to the stage where the other kids are fed up too. We had a lovely day at the park followed by mcdonalds, he was so well behaved and then wet himself in the car on the way home. he didn't tell, even goes to the toilet when asked to and comes back down not reporting he is wet.

    Any help or suggestions would be appreciated, also can anyone tell me if I should be recording or getting parents to sign everytime he wets? I know playgroup does that with him. He is starting school is September, I hope that if he doesn't it a few times in school maybe he will stop out of embarassment.

    I just don't know what else to do!

    Can anyone advise
    If this was happening to a child in my care I would be getting alarm bells ringing in my head...let's be positive and think otherwise...but I think you need to act now.

    It is rather worrying that this problem has been going on for quite a while but the parents have not sought to address it by either taking to the GP or approaching the child's Health Visitor?...children can be seen by a HV up to age 5...Again this would ring alarm bells and I would have all this recorded.

    you say your assessment was last November with a Social worker? SW usually would really give you advice...maybe you could contact her and ask for help now ..don't wait until she comes back.


    It appears you are communicating with the preschool and they have asked for the GP to do a urine sample?
    They would have had to have parental permission to approach the GP for this...so I would start to feel very concerned as to why the parents are not seeking medical advice ?...or if they have they are not telling you?

    there are many reasons why children wet themselves...and yes they often do lie after the event possibly out of embarassment and maybe now fear if the other children are 'fed up with it'

    it depends on what is going on in this child's life and if there have been changes, transitions, events that have affected his life....the last thing this child needs is going to school and being embarrassed even more or even shamed....you can help him now.

    Please make sure you keep lots of records of this and ...eventually you will have to act because when a child is not well he/she is entitled to be seen by a GP and the problem addressed...it is a right for them to receive medical treatment and a duty for us to seek that, including parents...it is to do with a child's well being.

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    I wonder if you got mum to sign every time he does it would she better realise now frequent it is because it is in black and white ? Maybe tell her you are writing It down to see if there is a pattern

    My own daughter after training quite easily and for quite some time began doing this just because she couldn't be bothered to go. I got so cross one day after she wet in a ball pool at a play place that I said to her 'if you don't keep your pants dry you will smell and the other children won't want to play with you' that did it in the end. No amount of bribery or punishment before had worked. I think she was 5 or 6.
    Your little man though sounds like he does have other issues , if he doesn't communiwell

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    Doesn't communicate well.. What other concerns do you have? Do you think mum realises something isn't quite right and is in denial and doesn't want it highlighted and that's why she won't get help? It's a tough one very frustrating for you!

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    Maybe a bit out there but could you ask mum for written permission to take him to see the hv or doctor yourself? Get mum to sign a letter saying she gives you permission to take the child to discuss his wetting problems and include her contact number.
    I've had parents in the past frightened to go for some reason or another and me making the first point appointment broke the ice and got them involved and attending all other appointments. It's a last straw sort off thing for the best of the child.

    You have tried everything you can think of it's time to get specialists involved before school starts.

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    I nannied a little boy who used to wet (and dirty) himself and then totally deny it. (He was doing it when i started, mum said it was a 'new' occurance, nursery said it had been going on months!)
    In the end, for half term, i bought a selection of party bag type prizes and little packets of sweets and said to the child that once he was dressed, if he still had the same dry pants on after half hour, he could have a present from the box. And then another half hour and another etc all day ( if wet, then new pants and a new half hour started.
    Each successive day the period of time lengthened and in less than a week the problem had passed without any of us remembering the presents!

    I didn't actually give the time limit as 'half an hour', i just said ' after we've played xyz' or ' before/after we go to the park' etc.


    If this hadn't worked i would have been suggesting seeing the dr or hv.

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    Thank you to everyone for the responses so far.

    On Friday he went all day without wetting himself. I asked him to go to the toilet every two hours, sometimes he said he didn't need to go but I made him go anyway. Because he didn't wet all day I gave him the mcdonalds toy that we confiscated the day before.

    I didn't have him on Saturday, sunday or Monday, he spent the weekend and Monday at his grannys and has been wetting himself. Dad says no matter what they ask granny to do she won't do anything about disciplining him for wetting or not telling.

    He has been here two hours this morning and has already wet himself. he didn't tell me so I had to ask and he admitted it.

    I do fear that there are issues not being addressed here, his inability to communicate and his skin is covered in hives and mum and dad refuse to do anything to sort it out.

    Now he is out of playgroup and starting school in September I fear the school won't be as on the ball as playgroup was about issues.

    I will ask today when they collect him if they have got the urine results back, I think the next step is to visit the health visitor and ask advice.

    I have asked mum several times if I can take him to the doctor/health visitor myself and she says no she will do it, but then she never does.

    Its getting to the stage where its affecting the other kids, we could be at the park and have to leave if he wets himself. Or if we are out and about its a nightmare to go and get him changed.

    I really don't know what to do for the best, think I may phone my health visitor and ask her advice.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by catanmax View Post
    Thank you to everyone for the responses so far.

    On Friday he went all day without wetting himself. I asked him to go to the toilet every two hours, sometimes he said he didn't need to go but I made him go anyway. Because he didn't wet all day I gave him the mcdonalds toy that we confiscated the day before.

    I didn't have him on Saturday, sunday or Monday, he spent the weekend and Monday at his grannys and has been wetting himself. Dad says no matter what they ask granny to do she won't do anything about disciplining him for wetting or not telling.

    He has been here two hours this morning and has already wet himself. he didn't tell me so I had to ask and he admitted it.

    I do fear that there are issues not being addressed here, his inability to communicate and his skin is covered in hives and mum and dad refuse to do anything to sort it out.

    Now he is out of playgroup and starting school in September I fear the school won't be as on the ball as playgroup was about issues.

    I will ask today when they collect him if they have got the urine results back, I think the next step is to visit the health visitor and ask advice.

    I have asked mum several times if I can take him to the doctor/health visitor myself and she says no she will do it, but then she never does.

    Its getting to the stage where its affecting the other kids, we could be at the park and have to leave if he wets himself. Or if we are out and about its a nightmare to go and get him changed.

    I really don't know what to do for the best, think I may phone my health visitor and ask her advice.
    You can call the HV in confidence...you do not need to give names...just ask for advice.
    If the child is covered in hives...depends where they are...they can be the result of the urine reacting on his skin....I have seen that in a child who wet himself at school but did not tell the teacher and when at home I discovered his legs were very sore.

    This is in a way neglect and not addressing a child's health and taking to a GP to sort out
    You can't do anything without permission but if you are worried about this child's well being you need to act.

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    I would write a formal letter to the parents listing all your concerns and making a formal request for them to take him to the doctors. At the very least you would have a record that they can see. The formality may kick them into gear.

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    Their whole approach is worrying, to be honest. Why do they think 'discipline' is the way to sort it? (They say Granny won't do anything to discipline him for wetting/not telling).

    Does this child understand the concept of 'wet'? Maybe you could test him on this during activities? For example, get him to feel wet and dry fabric, or wet/dry teddies and see if he can tell you which ones are wet and which ones are dry. Maybe he doesn't tell adults that he has wet himself because he is frightened of being 'disciplined'.

    I have a little one who is completely toilet trained but needs to go more than once every two hours - he goes at least once an hour.

    If he can't stay dry he can't stay dry and no amount of discipline will change that.

    I wouldn't worry about the night time wetting at this stage. It's quite common to still wear a nappy for bed at that age.

    The hives is another story, poor thing.

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    Did something happen a year ago? Something could have triggered this off and its become a habit.

    Did he start preschool or did they move house, can you try and think of anything at all that might have started this off?

    It could be something simple as he wet himself once and Mum/Dad went a bit ott with him.
    It could be Granny? A lot of old people are very old skool and she may not know how to handle it sensitively? It seems he has gone a whole day with you dry only to return wetting himself again. It shows that he can do it but is choosing not to which seems to say its not a medical thing.

    Another thing is, how are they handling night times wetting? My ds wet until 6 and my dd wet the bed until she was 8. Its very common. Ask the parents how he is at noght...is he getting told off for bed wetting.
    Time Out.. The perfect time for thinking about what you're going to destroy next.

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    This is a safeguarding issue ...my personal view of course but I would say neglect is a sure issue here....the question is why are the parents so reluctant to address it?
    no point in speculating

    it is not acceptable to allow a child with such a condition to go unchecked for such a long time
    Would anyone allow their own child if he had hives not to be checked by the GP or consult someone for the 'year long' wetting issue?
    would you leave it for a whole year?

    It is obvious there are too many people in the child's life dealing with this and with too many different approaches so the child is possibly very very confused.
    What about the pre-school? are they not concerned? what have they done?

    May I ask why the child has to 'admit' he has wet himself?
    it is obvious he has a problem here so why does he have to confirm the wetting? this would be an additional form of shaming

    It is essential to keep notes of all this, who said what and who ...in the end ...did act or did nothing.
    If anything is wrong those notes will have to be evidenced at inspection.

    Remember the first thing about safeguarding...if in doubt ...check it out, get advice, share your concerns....let's remember this is also a public forum

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    Simona, I think you made an excellent point when you asked why the child has to admit that he is wet.

 

 

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