Govt abandons GCSE rule for EYT
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  1. #1
    Simona Guest

    Default Govt abandons GCSE rule for EYT


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    My LA offered to fund my level 3 which I was thrilled about - but I had maths grade C and English grade D so they wouldn't let me do it! I couldn't afford to retake my GCSE and they wouldn't help with that (why should they I know). so I haven't been able to do my level 3 yet - if this will enable me to I would be a happy bunny!

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    I think there are many other ways to test abilities in Maths and English without the requirement for GCSEs. As long as the learner can cope with the course material it shouldn't be an issue. For instance I know CMs who would like to do their EYE but weren't able to with the restrictions on. Now they have been taken away more people can have access to the qualification therefor a higher trained workforce. I would like to think the EYT course is quite thorough and advanced and if you have the ability to complete the course then a GCSE certificate shouldn't make a difference.

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    I think its really bad.

    Why shouldn't EYT have to have maths and English at gcse. In no other career would you be able to enter without Maths and English gcses.

    Still the poor relation don't have maths and English go into childcare
    When someone tells you nothing is impossible, tell them to go slam a revolving door

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    Im sorry if I offend , but dropping the requirement really undervalues our profession. I know that everyone can give examples of really amazing childminders etc who never got their o levels way back when...but I reaaly think that having basic maths and English should be a requirement to go onto further training. I have a student on placement with me atm , her English skills are poor - and she struggles with the everyday administrative parts of the job . I cant imagine her ever being able to write a policy for example . Shes great with babies - but we are all aware that there is so much more to our job than that.

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    I think it should be a requirement. Teaching is a demanding profession as we all know, I think people need to have basic level English and maths to be able to do the job properly. Yes I know we're not teaching fractions, percentages, ratios and equations, but you need to show you can apply yourself when required. There are many aspects of our business when you do need your maths skills, even when using a calculator....you need to know the sums to do in first place!!
    Also communication skills are hugly needed and need to be good when dealing with the range of children and adults we encounter daily.
    I don't think this is really upping our standards in early years is it?

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    I agree that it should be a requirement, or even better for all candidates to pass a requirements test- not necessarily an exam, but some sort of assessment to show they can use maths and English effectively in practice.

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    I am currently doing the EYE and no I don't have Maths and English grade C as I took CSEs 30 years ago. I work 60+ hours a week and need to spend at least 10 hours on the EYE coursework a week and have three children of my own. I understand there should be a certain level attained in Maths and English but think that's a functional skills exam should be enough for the older learner.

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    Yes, that what I was actually meaning Helen. I think older learners have much more life / work experience where they may have had to apply maths and English therefore the fact they may not have achieved the required GCSE's doesn't really matter as long as they can show enough competency in these areas - perhaps completing functional skills tests etc. For younger learners I would expect them to have achieved Maths and English GCSE's and whilst they have the opportunity and time they can easily resist these exams. Redoing GCSE's for the older learner can seem like a waste of time and money and could put some people off gaining further qualifications especially when they could have completed a course with relative ease.

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    I don't think the article Simona has posted the link to is about students having to have GCSEs before they start a course.

    It's about those who have already completed a level 3 course only being counted in staff ratios as a level 2 if they haven't got GCSEs in maths and English. That does seem daft to me. If they completed a level 3 course they're showing competence at that level so it shouldn't matter that that they don't have level 2 qualifications. In order for them to count in staff ratios as a level 3 they would have had to go and take level 2 exams - seems a bit of a backwards step to me. They shouldn't have been allowed to take the level 3 in the first place without having a level 2, but as they were, it seems stupid to say "ok, you've passed your level 3, but you're not going to be allowed to use it and you've got to stay at level 2"

    But I do think for anyone starting a level 3 course now there should be a requirement for them to have maths and English GCSEs before they start it. Or they should be able to show competence in a similar test. I always hear people arguing "I'm not going to be teaching them algebra or Shakespeare, so why do I need GCSEs", but it's not about that. It's about having a certain level of intelligence to be able to pass exams.
    I know nursery workers who don't know the names of basic shapes beyond circles, squares and triangles. Their grammar isn't good, they have little general knowledge or understanding of what's going on in the world. How can they answer a curious child's constant questioning when they don't know the answers to the simplest things? It does very little to raise the profile of the childcare profession if there are no minimum entry requirements.

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    'Showing competence in a similar test '

    Someone would have to write this similar test, which is an expensive and long process if it is to be regulated ......why is this necessary when we already have one....called a GCSE....you don't have to complete a course to take it - AQA charge £31.60 - a test centre might charge too but if it is part of a College course for the Level 3 then that probably would be waived...don't reinvent the wheel if you already have something that does the job.

    The issue is that childcare has slowly over the years become teaching and a higher level of skill and knowledge is needed to understand the background behind how children learn, how we provide for it, assess it, plan it and discuss it with others. The expectation on school entry has risen because unless children are up and running and ready to learn on arrival, the schools can't teach them everything they need to know by the end of the foundation year/year 1 when they have to do a phonics test/ year 2 when they take their SATS.......so school data looks bad......

    The problem is that a number of people were able to take the Level 3 without the basic foundation level of education...passed yes, but this course did not have within it the remit to make sure the students were also numerate and literate to an A-C GCSE level...a discussion I have had many a time with College staff when I have refused to pass a student due to their lack of ability to know when to use a capital letter, basic grammar, or spelling. The majority of these girls have gone on to do a placement in a private nursery who were happy to pass them with no improvement in their literacy. These same students applied for jobs on completion to me with the same appalling grammar and spelling in their application ...no amount of being good with children would over ride a comment to the children or a note to parents say, with poor literacy. Often poor use of language accompanies this too which isn't a good role model for children.

    Whilst this was happening, nurseries and Childminders were not achieving good and above gradings.

    So the governments answer was to knee jerk a rule that you also needed a GCSE in maths and English, similar to the expectation when you do A levels - another level 3 qualification because they couldn't alter the fact that some colleges, in order to keep their funding in place, were allowing people to achieve a level3 qualification without an equivalent expectation of literacy and numeracy.
    Now of course the Ofsted gradings are going up and a number of childminders and Nurseries are achieving the grades without a GCSE background.
    A lot of childminders were leaving and there is a desperate shortage of places for their plan to tackle the under achievement of children in areas of deprivation with 2 year old funding ......so they have dropped this GCSE necessity.

    I think it is a good idea short term, so that the exodus of childminders stops. Those in the job without the GCSE standard are able to continue on higher level of learning. Ofsted inspections will then ensure that those still there are providing a good standard of care and education. Meanwhile the future is that you have to have achieved a certain level of numeracy and literacy to even get on a level 3 course, bringing the qualifications in line with other areas in teaching......eventually I hope raising the status of our profession.

  18. #12
    Simona Guest

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    It seems to me the Govt has bowed to pressure from nurseries and preschools and did a massive Uturn
    One of the reasons EYE is not well attended is also the cost of it not just the GCSE requirement.

    This is the previous article to the one posted and it mentions cms who, after all are not required to have any qualifications at all

    GCSE rules scrapped for standalone Level 3 EYEs | Nursery World

    Can anyone explain why 'functional skills' cannot go hand in hand with basic Maths and English?
    How do we measure functional skills?
    what test is there to do so and have any of these young students got functional skills when they have not previously worked in childcare?

    How does this Uturn link to Ofsted grading providers on teaching which, I assume, would cover basic knowledge of maths and literacy?

    Last but not least...why are young people leaving school without basic maths and literacy GCSE...is it not compulsory to have them?
    I thought Ofsted wanted to raise the children's attainment

    I am genuinely puzzled...on one hand we want to raise the EY sector profile on the other we are saying anyone can come and do childcare?...we are going back to students having 2 choices 'hair or care' just as Prof Nutbrown predicted .

    Most of the representing associations seem pleased with this decision...I am not too sure

    Sorry Flora Dora...I saw your comment after posting mine...you have clarified a few of my questions

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    I contact my LA about the level 3 qual and they are now saying it's not an entry requirement to do the level 3, but it is an exit requirement- as in you can't class your level 3 as a full level 3 until you have re-done your GCSE if you need to.

    I used to work in a student office in a college where I looked after the admin side of apprenticeships - all apprenticeships required the student to do numeracy and Literacy key skills at various levels - if they had GCSE grade A-C in these subjects they were exempt. I would happily do a key skill in Literacy to prove my ability! I did my GCSE's 20 years ago so do not feel they actually have a reflection on me or my ability now.

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    Can anyone remind me how much it costs to do a level 3 qualification and who I can do it with? Is it done online? I really struggled to find any information when I looked but probably being dumb!! What are the requirements ie. Can I do it with children on my books?

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    Simona Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by mumofone View Post
    Can anyone remind me how much it costs to do a level 3 qualification and who I can do it with? Is it done online? I really struggled to find any information when I looked but probably being dumb!! What are the requirements ie. Can I do it with children on my books?
    There are several organisations offering the EYE...all vary in price, better to call them and they will explain it all to you.
    It is a mixture of learning and yes you must be able to work hours with children as you have to cover all age ranges or get a placement for your evidence.

    Google EYE or CACHE...the awarding body...and look for what is best suitable to you and your pocket!

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    I'm doing mine with @homechildcare and took the 24+ advanced learning loan to cover the cost. I'm very happy with this provider :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by helengreen13 View Post
    I am currently doing the EYE and no I don't have Maths and English grade C as I took CSEs 30 years ago. I work 60+ hours a week and need to spend at least 10 hours on the EYE coursework a week and have three children of my own. I understand there should be a certain level attained in Maths and English but think that's a functional skills exam should be enough for the older learner.
    I did my Level 3 a couple of years ago and they wouldn't take my O'levels so I had to sit a Level 2 Skills exam in Maths and English. I passed first time but it was shocking how many failed and some re sat twice.

    I think everyone should sit Skills tests unless their formal exams are 3 years or less old. It shocks me sometimes when I see the level of English used around young children who are just starting to speak. We have got to raise the standards and it doesn't matter how old you are.

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    Why let EYT's complete the qualification if they can't be counted in numbers?
    I'm all for maths quals, if you looked at my CV you might think I like maths. I don't. But I think they are important.
    I undertook EYTS without GCSE maths and had to take an equivalency test. I have key skills maths, functional skills and the equivalency. At no point did anyone on the course state that I couldn't be counted in numbers.
    I undertook GCSE maths alongside EYTS and a PgCert, for my own CPD.
    I Think maths is important, but I also think being upfront is important too. Providers needed to be explicit about GCSE maths.
    It just reinforces the notion that EYTS is inferior to QTS (it is) it's not equivalent, it is lesser. It's a shame really.

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    Its great they want to raise the standards in childcare etc, but they can't expect people to take more and more exams,get more and more qualified, then work in a nursery on minimum wage. The number of times we are out an about and encounter people who will be on minimum wage and maybe they are blunt or have very poor communication skills, and we say - and they get paid the same as someone in a nursery. In my area Aldi pay more than most nurseries.

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  28. #20
    Simona Guest

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    Maybe these young people should be better 'advised' before they leave school....if they are thinking of going into childcare then they should be advised to take GCSE in English and maths? I assume they still have career advisors?

    The minimum wage is at present £6.50 ...but from April 2016 the National Living Wage will be £ 7.20 rising to £9 eventually
    Maybe employers are then right to expect basic maths and English?
    would any cms take on an assistant who does not have those basic skills?
    should the youngsters who work in nurseries not be able to teach maths and write proper assessments for LJs? how will they be judged at inspections?

    If these are young people how can they be tested on functional skills if they have no experience whatsoever of childcare?
    the students could study English and maths alongside their EYE... I can't see anything wrong in that.

    so many questions and no answers really...but the main one remains why do children leave school without basic English or maths?

 

 
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