Terminate part time to have full time child?
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  1. #1
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    Default Terminate part time to have full time child?

    Hello

    I've not been on here for a while! Am hoping someone can offer me some advise!?
    I have signed contracts with a family about 6 weeks ago to take on their 12 month old for two mornings a week - 6 hour dive since had a enquiry who want to use me and would be 27 hours a week which I can only do if I don't have the first child.
    My question is should I honour my first agreement and hope I can fill the afternoons or do I terminate the contract ( due to start September) in favour for the full time child?
    I have not given notice before and am worried that the parents will think I'm unreliable but at the same time my business head says it's the right thing to do but morally it's not!?

    Thanks in advance xx

  2. #2
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    I'd do what makes you the most money financially as youre a business but I think
    Most people will respond to say you should honour your first parents.

  3. #3
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    It's not something I would do and have always managed to fill awkward part time spaces. O.K it does make for more children but that can be a good thing as well as there can be a different mix of children. On the down side it can be hard in the holidays as we have to fit in gong out inbetween the comings and goings. Saying that as you haven't actually started with this child yet and if you really, really need the extra income maybe you could say that your circumstances have changed and can no longer honour the place but it might damage your reputation and to me that's the most important thing and it will stand you in good stead as the years go by.

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    It's not something l would do l see it as very unprofessional put yourself in the parents shoes how would you feel if it was done to you?

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    I agree with the others I remember learning once that when you've received good service you typically tell 1 person but if you receive bad service you typically tell 7 people. Gossip travels fast so morally and to protect your reputation I would stick with the first, bearing in mind you were happy with the agreement when you signed contracts. Often parents increase hours too, my one day a week has become my only full timer!

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    Not something that I ever did when I c/minded. You knew and accepted their requirements when drawing up the contract, personally I think it would look bad and could give your business a bad name

  8. #7
    Simona Guest

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    Mumofone....Definetely we need to look after our businesses and ensure we are sustainable but we cannot act in a manner that may put potential customer off and ruin our reputation...without mentioning a parent complaining to Ofsted?

    News will soon go around if a parent has been treated unfairly and that will spoil it for all of us....word of mouth is very useful but also very dangerous
    Giving notice to a parent to take on another for more money can be 'seen' as discriminatory and breach equal concern issues...so caution is required.

    SStar...Cms are allowed to look after 6 children under 8...that is in the EYFS 2012 and it has been discussed until we are all blue in the face and kind of sick of the topic.

    Could it be 'possible' that you could consider your ratio in this?...talk to all the parents, Risk Assess and then if you are still not sure call Ofsted and ask for support.

    Ofsted itself recently published a statement about Cms and our ratio and the conflicting advice we have been receiving.
    The DfE also has confirmed cms can look after 6 children under 8...check it out and it may turn out to be something you can do

  9. #8
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    Thank you all so much for your replies :-) I totally agree and know deep down that I would not be comfortable terminating the agreement I've already made.

    With regards to the ratios I thought we could only have 3 unless it's for continuity of care?
    I work closely with another minder would I be right in thinking we could work together for the hours that my numbers would overlap - would be 3 hours on two days xx

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    Quote Originally Posted by mumofone View Post
    I'd do what makes you the most money financially as youre a business but I think
    Most people will respond to say you should honour your first parents.
    Look at it from another point of view.

    What if you had booked in advance for 2 of you to go for a meal. The restaurant accepts your booking and you're all set to go.

    Then they get a call from a family of 6 wanting to book the table, but they can't fit them in because of your booking.

    If the restauarant phoned you and said they were sorry but they had to cancel your booking because they had a larger party coming in, would you say "that's fine. You're a business and and you have to do whatever makes you the most money?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by S Stars View Post
    Thank you all so much for your replies :-) I totally agree and know deep down that I would not be comfortable terminating the agreement I've already made.

    With regards to the ratios I thought we could only have 3 unless it's for continuity of care?
    I work closely with another minder would I be right in thinking we could work together for the hours that my numbers would overlap - would be 3 hours on two days xx
    I am sorry that the ratio issue has caused a lot of confusion ...continuity of care or new business or else.
    If you work with another cm the matter is totally different

    Please read this statement from Gill Jones which she gave at the recent Pacey conference to clarify this issue...also the EYFS does state what you can do....although not very clearly
    As said ...if in doubt call Ofsted or even better the DfE ...or 4Children who have been given the task to clarify...the info is on their foundation Years website.

    This is the statement by Gill Jones

    At the recent Pacey conference Ofsted have clarified the issue of the ratios for CMs
    This is the message which also addresses 'continuity of care' and when this could be considered by a cm who wished to apply it .

    ''Following on from PACEY’s spring conference, where the issue of child ratios for childminders was raised, Ofsted has helped clarify the issue and has shared the following guidance, which has also been given to their inspectors and helpline staff:

    The EYFS provides the standard ratios but also recognises circumstances where these ratios can change so that the needs of children and their families are met. Paragraphs 3.30 and 3.42 advise that: ‘exceptionally, and where the quality of care and safety and security of children is maintained, exceptions to the ratios may be made’. For example exceptions can be made when childminders are caring for sibling babies or when caring for their own baby. There may also be other adjustments to the ratios, for example where children need continuity of care.

    Inspectors must ensure that the quality of care is not compromised by a childminder caring for more children and that they meet the needs of all the children in their care. Exceeding the ratio is not a breach in itself unless the childminder is failing to meet the needs of all children.

    The Department for Education (DfE) has published some frequently asked questions (FAQs) which provide further guidance.

    If you receive information that is different to the above guidance, Ofsted has advised that you take the name of the person, the date and time of the call and report it to them to investigate further''

    Further information can be found on the 4 Children Foundation Years website under the FAQs section
    Frequently Asked Questions

  13. #11
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    Some CMs aren't even turning over a profit though by doing this which is crazy to me. I guess it depends how much you're doing childminding for a sustainable livelihood and income versus doing it for the love of the job. I don't mind admitting I'm in it for the former of these.

  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mumofone View Post
    Some CMs aren't even turning over a profit though by doing this which is crazy to me. I guess it depends how much you're doing childminding for a sustainable livelihood and income versus doing it for the love of the job. I don't mind admitting I'm in it for the former of these.
    Totally...no point in running a small business and not make some profit which in turn pays our bills.
    If cms are not turning over a profit that means they are running at a loss or breaking even...why?

    Many cms do keep their profits low for various reasons though...one being Tax credits.
    I have never believed that people do this for 'the love of the job'...yes we must love children to be doing this but...!?
    CMs have always been known for being cheaper but that maybe a bit difficult now with the 'childcare market' much loved by this govt.
    Interesting times ahead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mumofone View Post
    Some CMs aren't even turning over a profit though by doing this which is crazy to me. I guess it depends how much you're doing childminding for a sustainable livelihood and income versus doing it for the love of the job. I don't mind admitting I'm in it for the former of these.
    I don't believe that thinking it's OK to get rid of one child in favour of a better contract is based on a person's motivation for being a childminder.

    I am definitely in this job for the money. I do love childminding, but I don't do it for the love of it! My reputation is very important to me and I wouldn't damage that by coming across as unreliable.

    There are definitely instances where childminders have no choice but to give notice to one family when something better comes along, but I'd hope they'd do it as the last resort rather than an easy option to maximise their profits.

  17. #14
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    I have had 1 set of parents who had signed contracts with a CM I know. Contracts were signed and all agreed in the Feb to start in the June. Mum was able to relax and enjoy her last few months of mat leave safe in the knowledge that everything regarding childcare was sorted. BUT the CM then contacted them in the May to say that she had changed her mind and now couldn't have the child. Cue one panicking family. Luckily I could help and 3 years later and the child is leaving for school. The same CM has more recently offered a place to another child who has just moved to the village. Parents were happy with everything and said wanted to go ahead. No response from the CM. After several attempts by the parent to contact her, they received a text again saying she had changed her mind and couldn't have the child. Another panicking family looking for care that they thought they had sorted. Be very careful when ending a contract. You need to build a reliable reputation and not one that shows you as unreliable.

  18. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    Mumofone....Definetely we need to look after our businesses and ensure we are sustainable but we cannot act in a manner that may put potential customer off and ruin our reputation...without mentioning a parent complaining to Ofsted? News will soon go around if a parent has been treated unfairly and that will spoil it for all of us....word of mouth is very useful but also very dangerous Giving notice to a parent to take on another for more money can be 'seen' as discriminatory and breach equal concern issues...so caution is required. SStar...Cms are allowed to look after 6 children under 8...that is in the EYFS 2012 and it has been discussed until we are all blue in the face and kind of sick of the topic. Could it be 'possible' that you could consider your ratio in this?...talk to all the parents, Risk Assess and then if you are still not sure call Ofsted and ask for support. Ofsted itself recently published a statement about Cms and our ratio and the conflicting advice we have been receiving. The DfE also has confirmed cms can look after 6 children under 8...check it out and it may turn out to be something you can do
    I disagree with regards to Ofsted and discrimination. Ofsted do not get involved with contractual matters and you should never not end a contract through fear of a parent complaining to Ofsted. Same for discrimination, if you give correct notice and follow the contract your back is covered.

    Do what's best for you, your family and business.


  19. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueeyedminder View Post
    I disagree with regards to Ofsted and discrimination. Ofsted do not get involved with contractual matters and you should never not end a contract through fear of a parent complaining to Ofsted. Same for discrimination, if you give correct notice and follow the contract your back is covered.

    Do what's best for you, your family and business.

    I don't think for one minute I suggested Ofsted get involved in our businesses....I think I have known that from the start
    we do not agree on not having the problem of parents raising a complaint after what they see as unfair notice....have you experienced that?...maybe not.

    Read my comment and you will find your comments are unfair and you have misjudged what I said.....no problem.
    We are entitled to give notice if we truly cannot cater for parents' requirements...the issue here is different.

    I also believe that if you give notice to a part time family to take on a full time one is In a way discriminatory...that is my view and I respect if you feel otherwise
    I suggested an alternative to be considered....that is up to the OP to take into account.
    There is truly no need for such unpleasant replies when this is supposed to be a supporting forum

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    I don't think for one minute I suggested Ofsted get involved in our businesses....I think I have known that from the start we do not agree on not having the problem of parents raising a complaint after what they see as unfair notice....have you experienced that?...maybe not. Read my comment and you will find your comments are unfair and you have misjudged what I said.....no problem. We are entitled to give notice if we truly cannot cater for parents' requirements...the issue here is different. I also believe that if you give notice to a part time family to take on a full time one is In a way discriminatory...that is my view and I respect if you feel otherwise I suggested an alternative to be considered....that is up to the OP to take into account. There is truly no need for such unpleasant replies when this is supposed to be a supporting forum
    First of all my comment was not unpleasant in any way, I was giving some advice to the OP.

    I think you've got your wires crossed. I was not suggesting that you said Ofsted would get involved. I was simply stating to OP that Ofsted would not get involved as you mentioned a parent might complain to Ofsted.

    P.S This is not an unpleasant post

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    Is "discriminatory" a 'label' ?

    Hmmmmmmmmmm....................................... .........................

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Look at it from another point of view. What if you had booked in advance for 2 of you to go for a meal. The restaurant accepts your booking and you're all set to go. Then they get a call from a family of 6 wanting to book the table, but they can't fit them in because of your booking. If the restauarant phoned you and said they were sorry but they had to cancel your booking because they had a larger party coming in, would you say "that's fine. You're a business and and you have to do whatever makes you the most money?"
    No id be ****** off but that's not to say I wouldn't understand why they did it! :-)
    Last edited by FussyElmo; 06-08-2015 at 09:01 AM.

  23. #20
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    Blueeyedminder...thank you for your reply
    You did reply by copying my comment so I took it you were directing the answer at me.

    Mumofone....I am sure that restaurant would try their best to accommodate both customers and see if they could fit both bookings in rather than cancel one family in favour of another...even though there is more money involved?
    By accommodating the 2 they would double their income for the night...which makes good business sense

    In a way this is possible with Cms and with SStar in particular, who posted the original question, because there is an alternative if she is willing to consider it...it is called increasing your numbers under the right circumstances Cms can do so
    Remember the restaurant is not bound by a contract while in this issue there is one to consider....in both cases 'reputation' will either suffer or benefit from it.

    Bunyip....I am rather amused at the fun you poke regarding 'LABELS'....there are discussions elsewhere where labels are not acceptable to some people ....or is it just directed at me personally?
    Is discriminatory a label? ...this is what Thesaurus says about discriminatory, amongst other adjectives: favouring, preferential...so fits in well with this issue.
    If I chose to act that way then yes I would call myself discriminatory.

 

 
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