The Forbidden Word: Naughty.

[Mouse]

Since this discussion started I have been monitoring my use of the word 'naughty' and wondering how much effort I really have to put into avoiding using it.

I've found that with the children it doesn't even come into my mind to use the word. If they are doing something I don't want them to I find that 'naughty' doesn't adequately explain what I'm trying to tell them. It doesn't really mean anything. So yesterday I told a child they were being unkind, one was taking a toy that another child had, one was kicking the sand table. All their actions could have been classed as naughty, but it didn't occur to me to tell them they were being naughty as that didn't convey what they were doing wrong.
So, my reason for not using the word naughty to a child is that I have better words to use. It's got nothing to do with labelling a child, lowering their self esteem, being consistent or not. It's just not a word I need to use when talking to a child about their behaviour.

But yesterday afternoon a 3yr old was playing with a toy policeman and we were talking about what a policeman does. He told me that a policeman arrests people and then asked why they arrest people. I instinctively said they arrest people who have been naughty. I used the word because it's what he understands and that's the sort of language he would use. I could have broken it down into what a 'naughty' means in police terms, but it wasn't necessary at the time, mindee was happy with my explanation and it didn't actually occur to me to say anything else. I guess this is where the consistency with home comes into play as I know it will be used at home.

It's quite a relief to know that I haven't been totally brainwashed by trainers and 'professionals' telling me I can't use it! I would guess that if a situation arose when I needed to tell a child they were being naughty I would be perfectly able to. I just can't see a time when I couldn't find another, more appropriate word

[greenfaerie]

Thanks for replying guys, some really interesting points all around.

I think Mummits made some great points about the word being "devalued as a valid criticism of behavior" and I agree, if you have some people using it in a very light way, and nurseries (and some Childminders) avoiding using it because they think it is too harsh, then there seems to be quite a difference. I'd like to know where the negative connotations of the word first came from, and why it hasn't filtered down to a lot of parents yet.

I think working in nurseries has completely rewired my brain so that I don't think I could ever use the word without shuddering. Though I admit that is a bizarre and somewhat melodramatic reaction. (Hence why I started this thread, to see others opinions on the matter) We even used to avoid saying the word when it was printed in fiction (e.g. Little Miss Naughty, The Naughty Step etc.) which frankly feels ridiculous! I was raised in a household where the word "Naughty" was used and to me it never seemed like a terrible thing to be called, it was just a description of behaviour, like rude or cheeky. It seems like maybe adults may have a greater fear of this word than children do. Maybe, as with a lot of things, it's not what you say, it's how you say it?

I think Bunyip raised an interesting point about consistency with home, and that is a difficult thing to balance. However, as with a lot of things in my Behaviour Management Policy, my techniques will differ from parents techniques, and a lot of things that are acceptable at home will not be here. I've even had parents request that staff bite their children to discourage young biters, and we've had to delicately explain that there's no way we're ever going to handle it that way.

I seem to be in a strange middle ground, where I don't think that "Naughty" is descriptive enough to carry any meaning to children, and where I hear the word and flinch like Children will feel labelled and start planning out their future criminal activities immediately. I agree with Mouse, that there are much better ways to tell Children that you are unhappy with their behaviour. I prefer to tell Children that what they are doing is rude, dangerous or hurtful. That can focus on the consequences of their actions, rather than the simple act of being "naughty". (The word is still making me feel uncomfortable) :S

I think Bunyip raises a good point about adults not having to share, and this is one that I've thought about many times when trying to get children to negotiate. I find it hard to find the middle ground between "Don't snatch!/""Don't take what isn't yours" and "Share with friends" etc. I never really know how to handle that one, at the moment I just give the toy back to the original child and tell them that when they have finished with it they should give it to the other child to play with!

So I can really see both sides of this argument. I guess I'd want to see see some kind of study on how the word has a negative impact on children before I really make up my mind on how I feel about it. Though I don't think a study could be done without being full of flaws, since it's hard to single out the word as an influence without the study being very unethical.

[loocyloo]

Since this discussion started I have been monitoring my use of the word 'naughty' and wondering how much effort I really have to put into avoiding using it.

I've found that with the children it doesn't even come into my mind to use the word. If they are doing something I don't want them to I find that 'naughty' doesn't adequately explain what I'm trying to tell them. It doesn't really mean anything. So yesterday I told a child they were being unkind, one was taking a toy that another child had, one was kicking the sand table. All their actions could have been classed as naughty, but it didn't occur to me to tell them they were being naughty as that didn't convey what they were doing wrong.
So, my reason for not using the word naughty to a child is that I have better words to use. It's got nothing to do with labelling a child, lowering their self esteem, being consistent or not. It's just not a word I need to use when talking to a child about their behaviour.

But yesterday afternoon a 3yr old was playing with a toy policeman and we were talking about what a policeman does. He told me that a policeman arrests people and then asked why they arrest people. I instinctively said they arrest people who have been naughty. I used the word because it's what he understands and that's the sort of language he would use. I could have broken it down into what a 'naughty' means in police terms, but it wasn't necessary at the time, mindee was happy with my explanation and it didn't actually occur to me to say anything else. I guess this is where the consistency with home comes into play as I know it will be used at home.

It's quite a relief to know that I haven't been totally brainwashed by trainers and 'professionals' telling me I can't use it! I would guess that if a situation arose when I needed to tell a child they were being naughty I would be perfectly able to. I just can't see a time when I couldn't find another, more appropriate word

:-) well said. exactly how I feel.

[Mummits]

I've been thinking about what Bunyip said about not having to share etc as adults, and I actually disagree (brave ). Okay I may not be called upon to let my neighbour share my car, but that is because it is MY car (and actually I might lend them my car if they asked nicely). The thing about resources in our settings is that they are shared resources, to be shared. Even as adults we have occasion, even obligation, to use shared resources responsibly and respectfully of others' rights and feelings. How many road rage incidents or parking space disputes would there be if we all remembered to "share nicely"? And in a broader context, we try to support green initiatives and community projects that are all about sharing scarce resources responsibly and unselfishly.

[clareelizabeth1]

I used to work at a nursery so out of habit naughty is a word that is rarely used but interestingly my DS 2 1/2 who has only ever been looked after by me. I think he's only had 48 hours out of my company since birth. Will tell another child that they are naughty if they take a toy off someone else. So I think that all children whether they hear the word said to them that they are naughty or not will know the meaning and will tell each other they are naughty.

When DS told another child "no take you naughty" at group the other week I had another parent say to me. "Oh I wonder where they learnt that word then" in a very snide tone. It almost felt like my child had been caught swearing and I think the hatred of the word naughty has got over the top and although I don't use it I don't see anything wrong with it.

Another point could be is that over the years the word naught has gone out of favour but then I also think the behaviour of children is getting worse as the years go by. Could this be linked to the fact that no one feels they can tell children their behaviour is unacceptable/naughty and without being told out right the children never learn.

[Simona]

I've been thinking about what Bunyip said about not having to share etc as adults, and I actually disagree (brave ). Okay I may not be called upon to let my neighbour share my car, but that is because it is MY car (and actually I might lend them my car if they asked nicely). The thing about resources in our settings is that they are shared resources, to be shared. Even as adults we have occasion, even obligation, to use shared resources responsibly and respectfully of others' rights and feelings. How many road rage incidents or parking space disputes would there be if we all remembered to "share nicely"? And in a broader context, we try to support green initiatives and community projects that are all about sharing scarce resources responsibly and unselfishly.

You never needed to worry about putting across your point of view and actually 'disagreeing'...you would never have got the verbal
some of us have to put up with....and which the forum thinks is ok or does not object to.

Seems to me that everyone who commented was able to express their view and say we can tell children their behaviour is unwanted but using words other than naughty...pick our own and call a spade a spade! or use the word.

(having worked in nurseries and preschools recently and in the past...it is not that they are forbidden from using it...it is part of their policy not to and address behaviour in another ways)

or that going to training or conferences to listen and learn is being 'brainwashed'?

It makes me think when people ask us 'how are you?' ...the answer is usually 'fine'...one word when dozens could be used.

Thanks for your contribution Mouse...I agree with you when you say the word never comes into your mind and you choose to call the behaviour exactly what it is!...I think that is what I was trying to say

I now await the shower of verbal for daring to disagree or daring to come back or another deleted comment...this is a subject from which we can never ...move on...it pops up all the time!

[Mummits]

I'm sorry Simona if you are upset. I think it is good to have full and frank exchanges of views, so long as it does not get personal. I hope I can sometimes disagree with anyone on here, and quite often agree strongly with some points and disagree with others made by the same person. It all helps me to reflect, and sometimes it takes time for me to adjust my own thinking but I change my own view later or handle the next situation that arises differently as a result. You can't always come back and say "actually you did have a good point".

I'm afraid I don't totally follow what you are saying, possibly because there are deleted comments in this thread - always a shame in my view if it comes to that. I am on a local chat site and they are always deleting posts and it makes it impossible to follow the discussion and is very irritating.

[shortstuff]

I'm sorry Simona if you are upset. I think it is good to have full and frank exchanges of views, so long as it does not get personal. I hope I can sometimes disagree with anyone on here, and quite often agree strongly with some points and disagree with others made by the same person. It all helps me to reflect, and sometimes it takes time for me to adjust my own thinking but I change my own view later or handle the next situation that arises differently as a result. You can't always come back and say "actually you did have a good point".

I'm afraid I don't totally follow what you are saying, possibly because there are deleted comments in this thread - always a shame in my view if it comes to that. I am on a local chat site and they are always deleting posts and it makes it impossible to follow the discussion and is very irritating.

I dont think any of the thread has been deleted Mummits

i do however think that unfortunately there has been an individual who takes conversation as a personal attack. Which I would be very surprised if it actually was. It was an open discussion as you said. As far as I am aware and have witnessed we are all completely individual and our views are as such. I also enjoyed the conversation greatly and gleaned quite a bit of information from it

[bunyip]

I've been thinking about what Bunyip said about not having to share etc as adults, and I actually disagree (brave ). Okay I may not be called upon to let my neighbour share my car, but that is because it is MY car (and actually I might lend them my car if they asked nicely). The thing about resources in our settings is that they are shared resources, to be shared. Even as adults we have occasion, even obligation, to use shared resources responsibly and respectfully of others' rights and feelings. How many road rage incidents or parking space disputes would there be if we all remembered to "share nicely"? And in a broader context, we try to support green initiatives and community projects that are all about sharing scarce resources responsibly and unselfishly.

Good point. Now I think about it, I usually am talking about children using what should be shared resources. But I also expect children to share any toy they bring along, which may well be very wrong of me. I see parents doing the same with their children amongst others.

The one that always foxes me is which argument holds priority when it comes to "s/he won't share" versus "but I had it first". I'm always tempted to walk away from that sort of dispute.

I wonder if "naughty" is a generational thing? perhaps a word that, without actually being 'wrong' will just fall into disuse once some of us have shuffled off our mortal coil.

[Simona]

I'm sorry Simona if you are upset. I think it is good to have full and frank exchanges of views, so long as it does not get personal. I hope I can sometimes disagree with anyone on here, and quite often agree strongly with some points and disagree with others made by the same person. It all helps me to reflect, and sometimes it takes time for me to adjust my own thinking but I change my own view later or handle the next situation that arises differently as a result. You can't always come back and say "actually you did have a good point".

I'm afraid I don't totally follow what you are saying, possibly because there are deleted comments in this thread - always a shame in my view if it comes to that. I am on a local chat site and they are always deleting posts and it makes it impossible to follow the discussion and is very irritating.

I am not upset Mummits...that is not what I feel
I do agree with discussing issues, sometimes people agree sometimes they don't...at least you do say you are not sure you followed what I meant...sorry if I did not explain myself well
What was concerning after was you saying you dared to disagree with Bunyip...are we not allowed to?

Constructive criticism I like and accept...the use of words and method is what I found unacceptable and offensive...and belittling people for their views...why?

Shortstuff...that 'individual is a person and has a name...you can say it....my name is Simona and Bunyip's constant criticism follows me very often
Bunyip...I do not agree with all your views but, as I said, I read them and move on...

if you could be a little less offensive I would not mind...I do not intend being given time out and sitting there ...I always come out and challenge.

It seems to me a little strange that so many members did not understand my point of view when I came back and tried to explain...English is my 2nd language but I feel I have good command of it....I was being as clear as I could.

As said...this topic will come up over and over again and I too have learnt a lot and am reading now how people view the use of 'sharing'...or is it 'taking turns'?...another interesting part of behaviour.

[bunyip]

I am not upset Mummits...that is not what I feel
What was concerning after was you saying you dared to disagree with Bunyip...are we not allowed to?

Hell yes. I actually disagree with myself quite a bit (never alone with schizophrenia ) At the very least, I find myself disagreeing over time with views I previously held.

That where the forum is so beneficial. I don't know about everyone else, but exposure to different views encourages me to change. Bland agreement does not. Which could be why it goes unnoticed when I agree, which is probably most of the time.

[natlou82]

Yes I find the forum does make me consider things from all different angles and that's why I love it. This thread has been very interesting as I do use the word naughty but I will be now paying attention as to why I use it and in what context. I had no idea before this thread that it was such a taboo word! Some very interesting points have been made and I will review my practice as a result.

[Mouse]

I think we're often either trained or told that certain things are taboo where children are concerned. Depending on when we were trained, what the trainer's own views were or what was the trendy thing at the time, we have different ideas on what is 'allowed' or not. This forum is good for making me think about whether my views are for a reason or whether I like/dislike things out of habit. Take the use of the word 'naughty'. I was told that it shouldn't be used when talking to children, so I never have. This post has made me question whether I avoid the word because I've been told to, or whether there is a valid reason behind not using it, which in my case there is.

I have a similar quandary over gun play. I was always told we shouldn't allow it at all, so was very much against it without really being able to say why. But I have seen discussions on here where it's made me question whether it's such a bad thing after all. I still haven't made my mind up on that one, but it certainly made me think.

[Simona]

Pacey has just tweeted this link to a research on this subject
This is what I was trying to say in my own way

Children Become the Negative Names They Are Called | NLP Discoveries

[Mummits]

[QUOTE=Simona;1404052
What was concerning after was you saying you dared to disagree with Bunyip...are we not allowed to?

/QUOTE]

I was only joking Simona. Don't worry, I am not really worried about disagreeing with Bunyip or anybody else really.

[Mouse]

Don't worry, I am not really worried about disagreeing with Bunyip

Really? He terrifies me

[Mummits]

He's probably pretty terrifying in real life. Mrs Bunyip must be a saint (if she really exists and isn't Bunyip's imaginary friend)

[greenfaerie]

Thanks for that link Simona, I was eager for some research in this area! I like to have opinions that are backed with evidence where possible.

[FussyElmo]

Really? He terrifies me

Please he's just a cuddly pussycat

[HTSMumma]

As someone who isn't that bothered by the word naughty, I must say I agree with the link below. Calling a child a negative name does cause damage in the long run. I will never call a child naughty, bossy, mean, unkind etc...
I will only ever label the behaviour. And this is why I don't find the juvenile word 'naughty' a bad thing.

I find some of the words people have tried to substitute naughty for more complicated to explain to children. The word 'unacceptable' for example. How on earth can I explain unacceptable to a two year old?!? I always try to explain why I'm saying their behaviour is not nice and I find it easier to say "that was naughty because you hurt so-and-so and that's made them cry" or "throwing that toy was naughty because it could have broke it or hit someone".

Naughty is easy to explain to a little one. Unacceptable sounds so much more harsh to me.