First aid - refresher or full 12 hours?
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    Default First aid - refresher or full 12 hours?

    It's that time again - booking the first aid course. Gosh those three years come around quickly don't they?

    I was under the impression that we can do a 'refresher' course which is considerably shorter than the full 12 hour one. However, my DO said they no longer offer a refresher and so the ful 12 hour one is 'recommended'. Are we allowed to 'just' do a refresher (if I can find one) or does it have to be the full 12 hour one?

    Thanks

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    This is what they EYFS framework says about first aid courses

    18. Providers can choose which organisation they wish to provide the training (preferably one with a
    nationally approved and accredited first aid qualification or one that is a member of a trade body with an
    approval and monitoring scheme) but the training must cover the course content as for St John Ambulance
    or Red Cross paediatric first aid training and be renewed every three years


    It doesn't say anywhere about it having to be a 12 hours course. I've often argued that surely it's the content of the course that matters, not the number of hours you sit there for. You could cover everything you need to in 6 hours, or you could be on a course for 12 hours and still not cover everything!

    I would check the course content for either of the above bodies and just make sure any course you do covers everything it needs to. You might not be able to do a refresher course if it doesn't cover everything you need it to, but you might find a course that does offer everything, but in less than 12 hours.

    Most local childminders now contact the lady who used to do our LA run courses. A group of cms get together and arrange for her to go to someone's house and run the course there. She never takes more than about 5 or 6 hours and there have never been any problems with it not being a 12 hours course.

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    I had to do mine this year and I went with Tiger Lily. You do 1 day classroom and the 2nd part online. I would recommend them.

    xxx

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    To fit in all the subjects required you would need what has become an 'industry standard' known as the '12 hour paediactric course'.
    There are 'half online/half in person' courses availableand they are fine.
    But in my experience so far, to cover all the subjects it has to be a course run over 12 hours. (although sometimes the course leader does gets through it quick and you get to go home early!).

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    Thanks everyone. I have always done the '12 hour' one but we have always finished early. Once we started really late because the trainer was caught in traffic but we still managed to finish early! The 'half online/half in person' one seems like a great option. I do love the fact that it doesn't have to be the LA one as ours was a pain to get to. x

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    Apparently they're changing them and you have to sit a test at the end now (or at least the body I was doing mine with is) so I'd be interested to know if you have to do this and what's it like once you've been on your course :-)

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    We did a written test multiple choice about 15 questions (we had to get at least 13 right and be able to correct the ones that were wrong))and a practical test in groups of 4 on my last one there were 4 scenarios of accidents and we had to deal with each one l do feel that 12 hrs is to long as on the last few l have done we were just killing time and as our training officer arranges them she would be there at the beginning and come back at the end so we couldn't go early, she is insistent it has to be 12hrs to be valid

    Paediatric 6hr First Aid Course – 1 Day

    Designed for nannies, au pairs, voluntary workers, school teachers and support staff and those working with children who do not need the 12hr course. This course meets the requirements of the DCSF and the voluntary part of the Ofsted childcare register, which many nannies – and those in equivalent job roles – are opting to join. This course delivers the knowledge, skills and confidence needed to deal with an emergency involving a child.
    Also the PACEY website says In England, EYFS guidelines for childcarers state that first-aid training must: Be a minimum of 12 hours (as well as other things it must cover)
    Last edited by QualityCare; 30-06-2015 at 02:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceK View Post
    I had to do mine this year and I went with Tiger Lily. You do 1 day classroom and the 2nd part online. I would recommend them.

    xxx
    Thanks so much for this info AliceK. Tiger Lily don't do any courses near me but I managed to find a local company that do part online/part practical. I did my practical today and it was soooo nice knowing that I didn't have to go for another day. It was full of childminders who were all very excited about being able to do it this way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maza View Post
    Thanks so much for this info AliceK. Tiger Lily don't do any courses near me but I managed to find a local company that do part online/part practical. I did my practical today and it was soooo nice knowing that I didn't have to go for another day. It was full of childminders who were all very excited about being able to do it this way.
    I am sure that most people would jump for joy at being able to do FA in a day ...it is the one training most dread !

    This issue is very confusing because the EYFS requirements have not changed, there has been no announcement or update and no one has confirmed it can be done differently
    I did mine last year and was told it had to be 12 hours ...in the meantime I see a very big and well known company advertising a 1 day one.
    Someone ought to give the DfE a call and get them to clarify

    Mouse is right this issue has been discussed at length...I remember the thread very well ...but...still no solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    I am sure that most people would jump for joy at being able to do FA in a day ...it is the one training most dread ! This issue is very confusing because the EYFS requirements have not changed, there has been no announcement or update and no one has confirmed it can be done differently I did mine last year and was told it had to be 12 hours ...in the meantime I see a very big and well known company advertising a 1 day one. Someone ought to give the DfE a call and get them to clarify Mouse is right this issue has been discussed at length...I remember the thread very well ...but...still no solution.
    I haven't heard anything that says it can be less than 12 hours either.

    I recently did my first aid and we only just fitted it into 12 hours. I don't see how they could shorten it and still cover all the course content adequately. Whilst I grumbled slightly at losing consecutive Saturdays to doing this, it was worth every minute, especially if an emergency did happen. Perhaps we shouldn't always try and find a shortcut just because we have been told we have to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I haven't heard anything that says it can be less than 12 hours either.

    I recently did my first aid and we only just fitted it into 12 hours. I don't see how they could shorten it and still cover all the course content adequately. Whilst I grumbled slightly at losing consecutive Saturdays to doing this, it was worth every minute, especially if an emergency did happen. Perhaps we shouldn't always try and find a shortcut just because we have been told we have to do it.
    No I have not ...I think it is becoming a confusing issue...giving up the weekend is what, possibly, makes it a bit annoying but there are 2 hours training sessions for those who don't mind doing it that way for 6 weeks...I did that 6 years ago, there were 3 of us on the course, we did go through it quicker but we still had to be certified for 12 hours.

    our FA trainer last year was adamant it still has to be 12 hours with a short questionnaire at the end
    The company I referred to advertises all the time on Twitter and once they were saying the FA was 'Ofsted approved'....which is total rubbish because it is a DfE requirement.

    They still do advertise a one day course for cms...I saw the tweet yesterday....maybe someone will pick that up and question it?

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    No, no, no! I absolutely wasn't trying to do a short cut - I agree whole heartedly that it needs to be done thoroughly. It was a 12 hour one but we could do the theory online before the practical. The theory was very comprehensive (and took me hours!) and had demonstration videos as well as other methods to teach us. There were lots of tests throughout it which you had to pass and then a longer test at the end of it all.

    The practical session was seven hours and included a practical test. It's the fourth time I have renewed my first aid over the years and I can HONESTLY say that this was just as thorough as the two day courses. It was all inline with the Ofsted 'syllabus' - I did check it out thoroughly before hand. The company do lots of different versions of first aid courses but this one is one for Ofsted registered childminders. There were people in other rooms doing shorter versions for different professions.

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    Mouse is right, in that it is the course content that matters, rather than the time spent in training. Worth asking your trainer to provide a list of the contents, if this isn't already printed on the back of the certificate, as some trainers have already started doing.

    I think the "12 hour standard" has become all too well established, such that I would not be surprised to find Ofsted inspectres adding this supposed "requirement" to the list of other things Ofsted make up and pretend is part of EYFS. The devil in me wants to photocopy my PFA certificate a hundred times and make them into a "print-rich environment" of little windmills.

    I'd want to know the course content of anything calling itself a "refresher". In my last 'proper' job, we used to do a 3-day FA course every 2 years, and a 1-day refresher in between. The refresher only covered a recap of life-saver skills (yer basic Vinnie Jones stuff) and any changes in protocols. The latter being frequent: we had one SJA trainer who revelled in showing classes the vicious-looking tongue-clips that he's learned on, back in the day when the tongue had to be clipped to the cheek before administering rescue breaths.

    The '12 hours' was always a bit of a joke. Classes always finish early (or would do if you weren't usually treated to the presence of some brain-donor trainee who never understands a darned thing, won't stop talking and requires a fag-break every hour.) My last trainer claimed he could deliver the 12-hour course in about 4 hours if the class had already previously qualified. He regularly does the identical course content, but without the assessment/tests, to beginners in 4 hour evening sessions at a volunteers' bureau for people who just want to learn but have no need for the certificate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    No I have not ...I think it is becoming a confusing issue...giving up the weekend is what, possibly, makes it a bit annoying but there are 2 hours training sessions for those who don't mind doing it that way for 6 weeks...I did that 6 years ago, there were 3 of us on the course, we did go through it quicker but we still had to be certified for 12 hours.

    our FA trainer last year was adamant it still has to be 12 hours with a short questionnaire at the end
    The company I referred to advertises all the time on Twitter and once they were saying the FA was 'Ofsted approved'....which is total rubbish because it is a DfE requirement.

    They still do advertise a one day course for cms...I saw the tweet yesterday....maybe someone will pick that up and question it?
    Some Cm's locally to me have done a 1 day course, but it was a long 12 hour one day course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOH View Post
    Some Cm's locally to me have done a 1 day course, but it was a long 12 hour one day course.
    That just doesn't sound like a good idea. How can you take in that much information in one go?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maza View Post
    No, no, no! I absolutely wasn't trying to do a short cut - I agree whole heartedly that it needs to be done thoroughly. It was a 12 hour one but we could do the theory online before the practical. The theory was very comprehensive (and took me hours!) and had demonstration videos as well as other methods to teach us. There were lots of tests throughout it which you had to pass and then a longer test at the end of it all. The practical session was seven hours and included a practical test. It's the fourth time I have renewed my first aid over the years and I can HONESTLY say that this was just as thorough as the two day courses. It was all inline with the Ofsted 'syllabus' - I did check it out thoroughly before hand. The company do lots of different versions of first aid courses but this one is one for Ofsted registered childminders. There were people in other rooms doing shorter versions for different professions.
    It's just your initial post said can we do a refresher or does it have to be a 12 hour course?

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    I've done so many first aid courses over the years. The first few I attended had to be for 12 hours. We'd cover the course material in less time than that, then the trainer would spend ages talking about completely irrelevant stuff, just to fill in the time. I really couldn't see the point of sitting there for an extra hour just so we could say we'd done a 12 hour course. I certainly didn't learn anything in that extra hour, other than that the trainer was a complete bore!

    The trainer I've had the last 3 times covers everything that has to be covered in a way that you remember and she includes so much practical work that you really do feel as if you've learned something useful. Those courses have been run over 2 Saturdays, but we've never been there for longer than 5 hours each day...and that's included an hour for lunch.

    I'd go for the shorter course any day

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    It's just your initial post said can we do a refresher or does it have to be a 12 hour course?
    Yeah, sorry. I wrote that a few months ago and quickly realised that it was indeed the full course that I needed to do. Then I was wondering if there was an 'alternative' way of doing the full course, rather than two Saturdays, which seemed to be the only way I could do it in the past.

    I agree that the 12 hour issue was a grey area. The nice thing about doing some of it online is that you don't have to put up with other people who love the sound of their own voice and interrupt the leader to constantly give examples of their own experiences or ask a ridiculous amount of questions. Yes, I know that we also learn from each other, but I think you know what I mean - there's always one on every course I go on. If we had one-to-one tuition there is no way it would take 12 hours, because part of my courses in the past have always involved sitting around waiting for stragglers to turn up/get back from their coffee break, change the spelling of their name on the certificates, sitting around while others have their practical test etc.

    Hope I haven't made myself sound like a lazy old thing that just wants to tick boxes on the certificate front! I do take my training seriously.

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    My last first aid was 12 hours over 2 days ... The instructor said he'd been told that paediatric might go to 3 days but said they'd still do it in 2 days, but longer days.

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    I have just spotted another tweet from the same training company advertising First Aid for those on the childcare register and they say it is 6 hours...very confusing.
    I have asked DfE to confirm if there has been a change to the 12 hours requirement....if they respond I will share

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