Family with 2 boys came to see me this morning and.....

**VeggieSausage** · 01-06-2015, 11:48 AM

Child 1 - 18 months old, pulled the hair of my 3 year old little girl twice, threw toys everywhere and pinched me twice.....did nothing he was asked to do or not do

Child 2 - 4.5 years old and going to school in september - has a melt down when he was asked by mum to put the toys away, or at least one of them, said everything was really boring here and had a strop when mum said he had to put his own shoes on.....

Mum seemed lovely but wowsers, the behaviour!!!

**hectors house** · 01-06-2015, 11:55 AM

Often children act up more for the parents - I went to the Bath & West show on Saturday with my husband, daughter and grandson. Grandson (age 2) goes on long walks with me when I look after him on a Friday but because his mum was there he didn't want to be in the buggy but wouldn't hold hands when walking, when she put reins on him he refused to walk or get back in buggy and wanted to be carried - which is never an option when I have him on his own!

Sometimes with children I am wary about (or sometimes it's the parents), I do a temporary contract whilst doing trial sessions, that way I haven't wasted an expensive contract if it doesn't work out.

**VeggieSausage** · 01-06-2015, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by hectors house

Often children act up more for the parents - I went to the Bath & West show on Saturday with my husband, daughter and grandson. Grandson (age 2) goes on long walks with me when I look after him on a Friday but because his mum was there he didn't want to be in the buggy but wouldn't hold hands when walking, when she put reins on him he refused to walk or get back in buggy and wanted to be carried - which is never an option when I have him on his own!

Sometimes with children I am wary about (or sometimes it's the parents), I do a temporary contract whilst doing trial sessions, that way I haven't wasted an expensive contract if it doesn't work out.

I know they act up when the parents are there, tricky one isn't it.....these two were thugs!! My 2 after school girls are lovely and sweet, I am wondering if I can train these 2 up or not, the mum really liked me! haha typical

Its the physical violence that is my biggest concern.....must think quickly before she gets back to me.....

**mumofone** · 01-06-2015, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by VeggieSausage

I know they act up when the parents are there, tricky one isn't it.....these two were thugs!! My 2 after school girls are lovely and sweet, I am wondering if I can train these 2 up or not, the mum really liked me! haha typical

Its the physical violence that is my biggest concern.....must think quickly before she gets back to me.....

I'm new so no experience of this but if that were to happen to me now I'd say no (politely and avoiding the reason why!!).

**AliceK** · 01-06-2015, 12:49 PM

You have to go with your instinct. I have been caught out in the past but now I'm not afraid to say No if I don't think they are the right family for me. I had to turn someone down a couple of months ago because although the LO was lovely I felt with his lack of social skills he would have been a physical danger to my two 1yr olds judging by his behaviour whilst he was here visiting.

xxx

**shortstuff** · 01-06-2015, 12:58 PM

How did the mum react? thats the important thing for me? If mum was upset and told them off fair enough but if she left them to it i would be concerned about taking them on.

**VeggieSausage** · 01-06-2015, 01:34 PM

Mum made a little bit of effort to get the youngest child to utter sorry - which he wouldn't but also he was to young for sorry to have any meaning - what I wanted to see was her telling him in no uncertain terms that it was not acceptable to pull a child's hair etc - when he pinched me I said 'Excuse me young man you do not pinch' he took not notice and carried on and mum did not seem in any way perturbed.....mmmm I want the work but possibly this family would be better off somewhere else!! lol also they are used to nursery and I think children do behave differently at first when they are used to a nursery environment, my little ones get used to playing with a few toys out, not loads of different stuff available at all times, roaming around pulling everything out at once....I am answering my own question I think!!!

**Mouse** · 01-06-2015, 02:10 PM

I had a child like that come to visit a few weeks ago.

I usually email parents after a visit with follow up information and telling them if I can offer them a space. I didn't even email this family and have dreaded them getting back in touch! Luckily I can see that they still keep logging in to childcare.co.uk, so I hope they're still looking. The parents were lovely, but they could see this wouldn't be the right environment for their (very active) child.

**shortstuff** · 01-06-2015, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by VeggieSausage

Mum made a little bit of effort to get the youngest child to utter sorry - which he wouldn't but also he was to young for sorry to have any meaning - what I wanted to see was her telling him in no uncertain terms that it was not acceptable to pull a child's hair etc - when he pinched me I said 'Excuse me young man you do not pinch' he took not notice and carried on and mum did not seem in any way perturbed.....mmmm I want the work but possibly this family would be better off somewhere else!! lol also they are used to nursery and I think children do behave differently at first when they are used to a nursery environment, my little ones get used to playing with a few toys out, not loads of different stuff available at all times, roaming around pulling everything out at once....I am answering my own question I think!!!

Yeah a lack of intervention would be a red flag for me. I've been there with 1 family like that. I organised a reward chart with dad. Mum didn't like it so reported me to ofsted for being inconsistent with behaviour.

**KateA** · 01-06-2015, 03:59 PM

Hi, sorry I would not take on this family sounds like the children rule the nest and parents will not want to work with you to correct the behaviour. Any new minders I take on I have to feel will fit in with my current ones so if they are going to start to hurt them etc not interested.

Easier not to take a family on than then have to give notice due to behaviour or tell them you are not continuing care after the trial period.

**VeggieSausage** · 01-06-2015, 05:07 PM

Thanks for all the advice peeps, I think I have decided not to take them if they come back to me....I have big concerns that the children rule the roost and really were appallingly behaved, mum made no mention of them doing this because they were in a new environment etc, in fact she seemed to ignore it was happening...also the younger one was trying to hit the cat and throw toys at her even though I had asked her not to and be kind to the cat etc - they have a cat at home so not like they are not used to a cat.....

**AliceK** · 01-06-2015, 05:48 PM

I took on a school age child once against my better judgement. The turning point for me was when I told mum one day that I had had to put him on time-out for something. She looked at me like I had thrashed him and said "oh we don't do that at home he gets too upset". I realised then that these parents just wanted to be his friend not his parents. They would never do anything to upset him. I guessed as much at the meeting we had before he started but ignored my instincts.
I gave notice soon after.

xxx

**Fitrix** · 02-06-2015, 10:40 AM

Is it just me or is kids behaviour deteriorating by the day?? I am sick and tired of conducting interviews with parents whilst being constantly interrupted by the tantrums, strops and demands of their own children which they don't deal with at all?? I've lost count of the times I have waved potential clients off thinking "I am desperate for the work but please god don't ask me to care for your child!"

**mrsb79** · 02-06-2015, 11:02 AM

Fitrix I think your right !!! I currently have a 19 month old little boy on a temporary contract whilst mum is on trial for a job but I know already I will not be extending the contract due to many reasons
1) Mum arrives earlier and earlier for drop off should be a half 7 start yet she's knocking on the door at 7.10 ( eager to drop him off )
2) He clearly has no boundaries at home.
3) Behaviour pushing and throwing objects, big no no here.
4) The fact that he screams when being dropped off and mum being sarcastic with comments of " He knows where he's going ! "
I think like another poster said parents want to be friends rather than parents so give into their little darlings to be liked. Follow your instincts xx

**JCrakers** · 02-06-2015, 11:22 AM

I think parents nowadays are scared to discipline their children. Childcare advice is 'child led' 'baby led' and letting your child make decisions but some parents take this as let them do what they want.

Everything has gone too far the other way. years ago children didn't have a voice, they were seen and not heard and we didn't have any health and safety rules to follow. It wasn't a good time but nowadays we have too much health and safety and children have far too much rule.
Schools were very strict with canes and hitting but now we have gone far too forward and teachers arent even allowed to be firm with the children without an older child kicking off.

**watford wizz** · 02-06-2015, 12:19 PM

I agree JCrackers I think as a society we are afraid to even say the word disapline. I had a four year old who sat on my knee after some time out talking about what he should not have done. He looked me straight in the eyes and said "I wish my mummy loved me like you do" I was really shocked then he said "cause she never tells me off". Love them enough to disapline them takes hard work and consistency which many parents can't be bothered with or are afraid to do. I've had all sorts of negative comments when doing time out at toddlers, supermarket etc.

**Ripeberry** · 02-06-2015, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by watford wizz

I agree JCrackers I think as a society we are afraid to even say the word disapline. I had a four year old who sat on my knee after some time out talking about what he should not have done. He looked me straight in the eyes and said "I wish my mummy loved me like you do" I was really shocked then he said "cause she never tells me off". Love them enough to disapline them takes hard work and consistency which many parents can't be bothered with or are afraid to do. I've had all sorts of negative comments when doing time out at toddlers, supermarket etc.

That brought a tear to my eye 'Watford Wizz'. It's true, parents think they are being kind by letting kids get away with things, but they are showing their children that they don't really care enough to be bothered. No wonder some kids get destructive. Anything to get some boundaries! My own kids moan because I'm strict. But I've always told them it's because I care!

**watford wizz** · 02-06-2015, 01:25 PM

Ripeberry it made me cry too! But if I ever question my own actions, I just remember this call for love from a very mixed up child. Mum did end up asking me for a copy of my house rules and how I did time out so hopefully it gave her the confidence to show him she did care and could be bothered x

**VeggieSausage** · 02-06-2015, 09:09 PM

It is so true, your own children push the boundaries and want you to care enough to stop them, its shame that people go so wrong. I have decided to now take this family if they come back to me, mum emailed me today asking me a couple of questions and saying she is going to speak to her work and rejigging so they can use me, maybe they need someone like me in their life and maybe the mum does too. I will put in a long settling in period so if there is violence that is unacceptable and I can't turn things round then notice will be given with immediate effect....mum said that she was very embarrassed about it in her email so there was acknowledgement....also I have now found a very experienced assistant to start with me in september so with 2 of us I am sure we can turn things round....

**sing-low** · 03-06-2015, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by JCrakers

I think parents nowadays are scared to discipline their children. Childcare advice is 'child led' 'baby led' and letting your child make decisions but some parents take this as let them do what they want. Everything has gone too far the other way. years ago children didn't have a voice, they were seen and not heard and we didn't have any health and safety rules to follow. It wasn't a good time but nowadays we have too much health and safety and children have far too much rule. Schools were very strict with canes and hitting but now we have gone far too forward and teachers arent even allowed to be firm with the children without an older child kicking off.

It all starts with 'baby led' (along with the mantra 'crying is bad') which is great but it goes far beyond the point when children are no longer babies. Of course children should have choices but they need boundaries too. I think in many ways our society is still Victorian in that we think children should be seen and not heard (or if heard then definitely not noisy or whiney). Unfortunately, as we all know, children are often very vocal when their desires are being thwarted and I think it's at that point that many parents give in because they are embarrassed by the noise. So the children learn that if they are noisy enough, they will be placated, Mummy gives in and the cycle repeats itself. Sigh!