Can i do this?

[Kirsty90]

I think this is a big no no but thought I would double check. I've looked after a lo for the last 2 & a half years and for the last year or so mum has been on maternity leave but lo has still came to me 1 and a half days a week. Mum returned to work last month & before she returned we agreed that original lo & new baby would come to me 2 days a week (the 2 days a week my assistant works) & for the last 4/5 weeks this has worked fine. Mum is a shift worker though & before she returned work had agreed with her that her shifts would only fall on certain days but now she has gone back they've given her shifts on other days & she has asked me if I can help out. She has said that it will only be once a month at the most that this will happen but I'm not sure if I'm able to do it? This week she has asked me if I can have both Los on Wednesday instead of Friday but this will mean ill have my own lo 15 months, lo 30 months, lo 31 months, lo 3yrs & lo 10 months. I haven't given her an answer yet as I don't think I will be able to do it but wanted to check here first? As of September my own lo is actually not going to be here on a Wednesday & I know she always counts in my numbers but it would mean that if this was to ever happen again id only have 4 children in my care.

Sorry for the long post! Hope it makes sense.

Thank you x

[samb]

Could you ask your assistant to work as hoc hours for this? If it's only every now and again then I would say that mum could request, then you ask your assistant if she can work and book her and then say yes to mum. If your assistant works elsewhere on days not with you I guess this wouldn't work and then no I don't think you could do it.

[Kirsty90]

Yes my assistant works elsewhere on those days because that was my original thought, thank you for your reply x

[moggy]

...As of September my own lo is actually not going to be here on a Wednesday & I know she always counts in my numbers but it would mean that if this was to ever happen again id only have 4 children in my care.

...

No, 'counts in your numbers' = 'in your care'.
No difference. We can not say our own pre-school age child being elsewhere in any way helps us mind more children.

I can't comment on the ratios question with any certainty as I have never been in a situation where I need to analyse the rules in detail... except to say that to be 'seen' caring for 5x 0-3s would be something I would never do- so likely that someone is going to report you and end up with Ofsted investigating. My gut feeling is no way. Can't see how you can RA it either- emergency evacuation with 5 babies/toddlers?

Can you find an assistant for these days/hours? Otherwise it will have to be a 'no' to the family, unfortunately.

[Kirsty90]

No, 'counts in your numbers' = 'in your care'. No difference. We can not say our own pre-school age child being elsewhere in any way helps us mind more children. I can't comment on the ratios question with any certainty as I have never been in a situation where I need to analyse the rules in detail... except to say that to be 'seen' caring for 5x 0-3s would be something I would never do- so likely that someone is going to report you and end up with Ofsted investigating. My gut feeling is no way. Can't see how you can RA it either- emergency evacuation with 5 babies/toddlers? Can you find an assistant for these days/hours? Otherwise it will have to be a 'no' to the family, unfortunately.

Thank you for your reply. Yes I understand that she is always counted in my numbers I was saying it in terms of RA etc as she will actually be with her dad on a Wednesday as of September.

[Goatgirl]

Hi ,
I would risk assess very carefully - especially the getting out in case of fire/other emergency - including my own child in the RA in case something was to disrupt the plan of her being with Dad on Wednesdays.

I'd think through all the practicalities: how we would get out and about, supervising toilet trips for older ones while little ones may be in another room, meal logistics, nappy changing etc with this particular group of children. How you would ensure all children's needs would be met in all situations. What activities might be restricted etc... Only you know their personalities and how well this could work (or not) regarding you meeting everyone's needs and staying sane yourself .

Then if all that seemed doable I don't see any reason why I wouldn't do this as continuity of care, at least on a trial basis to see if it works out .
I have had variations granted by Ofsted in the past for 4 children, all under 3 and 2 of them being under a year old at the time and yes, it was hard work, but perfectly doable with those children at that time. I'm pretty sure I could have added an extra 3/4yr old to the mix and still coped, too. The children actually seemed to love the busier days and though it did exhaust me, I found it made me more organised and the days flew by! .

I'd go for it if you want to, just discuss with parents of all children and be ready to reassure them if they have any concerns. Good luck

[Chatterbox Childcare]

Wouldn't this give you 7? this is a no no and how would you cope with this many? I would say no or find another childminder to help on those days

[Kirsty90]

Hi , I would risk assess very carefully - especially the getting out in case of fire/other emergency - including my own child in the RA in case something was to disrupt the plan of her being with Dad on Wednesdays. I'd think through all the practicalities: how we would get out and about, supervising toilet trips for older ones while little ones may be in another room, meal logistics, nappy changing etc with this particular group of children. How you would ensure all children's needs would be met in all situations. What activities might be restricted etc... Only you know their personalities and how well this could work (or not) regarding you meeting everyone's needs and staying sane yourself . Then if all that seemed doable I don't see any reason why I wouldn't do this as continuity of care, at least on a trial basis to see if it works out . I have had variations granted by Ofsted in the past for 4 children, all under 3 and 2 of them being under a year old at the time and yes, it was hard work, but perfectly doable with those children at that time. I'm pretty sure I could have added an extra 3/4yr old to the mix and still coped, too. The children actually seemed to love the busier days and though it did exhaust me, I found it made me more organised and the days flew by! . I'd go for it if you want to, just discuss with parents of all children and be ready to reassure them if they have any concerns. Good luck

Thank you for your reply I'm going to sit & do the risk assessments today & think about all of the practicalities. I've told mum no for this week so it might turn out this situation doesn't come up again anyway but at least if I've thought everything through I can give her a definite answer if she ever asks again. I know all of the Los really well & know that I would be able to cope but just don't want to be doing anything that's not allowed x

[Kirsty90]

Wouldn't this give you 7? this is a no no and how would you cope with this many? I would say no or find another childminder to help on those days

No it would take me up to 5. I would be responsible for 5 under 5 including my own daughter but she won't actually be here on the day so ill have 4 in my care xx

[Kirsty90]

Has anyone else got any thoughts or experiences similar to my original post please?

Thank you

Kirsty x

[mum67]

Think it is still a no Kirsty90 because of the ratio, sorry to hear you haven't resolved it yet.

[Kirsty90]

Thanks for your reply! Is there anyone I can fully clarify this with or will ofsted just refer me back to the EYFS? Because the reason I would be increasing my numbers is for a sibling baby & this is mentioned in the EYFS? X

[ChildcareCate]

Hi. I would contact your Childminder Advisor at your local council if you have one. Otherwise Ofsted but I do not think they will give you a definite answer. If you are looking after 4 little ones in total and no other children - even school age ones, it may be possible as you will be providing continuity of care for the children. Childminders can carry out their own exemptions now for changes in ratio. Ofsted have changed the rules on this. Have a read on Ofsteds website at the variations/exemptions information. You will have to do a risk assessment, have notified all the other parents and check they are ok with it and, keep good written records of all this. Do lots of research before you make a decision as if you get it wrong you will be putting the children at risk and you may also be reported to Ofsted.

Good Luck!!

[FussyElmo]

Thanks for your reply! Is there anyone I can fully clarify this with or will ofsted just refer me back to the EYFS? Because the reason I would be increasing my numbers is for a sibling baby & this is mentioned in the EYFS? X

Can anyone tell you that it is ok for you to increase to 5 under 5. No I don't there is. We can all give you different opinions but when it comes down to it we cant tell you its ok to do this. The only persons opinion who will count is the inspector on the day if she agrees with you that it s was ok then its fine. If she think no then its your grade that will be downgraded.

Yes it continuity of care however we know of lots of minders downgraded for 5 because they are not providing a learning environment but just a care :-(


Sorry no one on her can give you the definite yes or no you need :-(

[Kirsty90]

Thanks everyone for your replies this situation would only be until December as the oldest lo is starting at a preschool & I don't do school or nursery pick ups. I know myself that with the mix of children it would be possible but don't want to do anything that might jeopardise my grade. So looks like I will have to say no this time & risk loosing both Los for the sake of 4/5 days between now & December. I just wish there was someone that could clarify these type of things as every childminder interprets the EYFS in their own way.

Thanks again xx

[mama2three]

Only you know how well you could convince your inspector on the day of how well you care and provide learning opportunities for those children. I personally feel that I could do that - but not everyone will be able to when put on the spot. I know my friend , who is the best cm I know , isn't as confident when put on the spot.
You have no doubt that it is doable - I would agree with you , after all there will be 4 children in your care which lots of us do regularly. What you need to consider is how you would convince mrs O of the same. Are the children all happy , settled , progressing well? If she can see these things then shes less likely to say their learning is being compromised by these few days.
We all know we are at the mercy of individual inspectors whims - but in reality the majority are experienced enough to recognise when there is a real need for continuity , and to recognise good childminding when they see it.

[mum67]

Kirsty90 not sure if you have looked at this yet but on the free resources at the top of this forum there is the updated version of variations for Sept 2104, look at it and see what you think.
It's in free downloads and under the Ofsted Forms and general guidance, then scroll down to variations.
Hope it helps

[Kirsty90]

Kirsty90 not sure if you have looked at this yet but on the free resources at the top of this forum there is the updated version of variations for Sept 2104, look at it and see what you think. It's in free downloads and under the Ofsted Forms and general guidance, then scroll down to variations. Hope it helps

Thank you just looked at this. I still think it's easy for each individual childminder to interpret the new EYFS differently. I'm looking in to getting another family member registered as an assistant to solve my problem. X

[mum67]

That's a good idea about the assistant especially as it's only for a couple of months.
Good luck

[Chatterbox Childcare]

How long do you have 4 children for and what are you plans if your own child is sick? RA ask all the questions and if you feel you can do this then yes I would do it. All continuity of care. Do you have any relatives about that could be your assistant for the day, even if they are with you just watching tv