Would you let Mindee go hungry if they refuse to eat? - feeling really bad at moment.

[LauraS]

I tend to find that the phrase don't like it actually means 'don't fancy it' in practice. Let's face it, if all food were nutritionally equal we would all happily live on chocolate and cheese (well, I would!). As an adult, eating a spinach salad can be tedious, no matter how scrummy the dressing. However, I plod through because I have the knowledge, hindsight and the acute sense of my own mortality to inform my decision making, something that, despite education, I don't think children can fully appreciate until they are adult.

There are plenty of things that we don't allow children to have any autonomy over. We don't allow them to 'dislike' sun cream, or seat belts, or appropriate language or clothing. Nor do we usually allow the parenting styles off our parents to impact on our setting to the point where it compromises adherence to the regs, the law or our own principles. We don't reason that if a parent has a laissez-faire attitude to discipline in their household we should treat the child similarly, nor do we use capital punishment if parents do, or deny a child sleep when a parent asks. Why should I serve up mechanically reconstituted fried chicken preservative and salt filled breadcrumb encased nutritionally bankrupt lumps to children simply because the parents do?

In my house, I serve one meal and it's either eaten or not. I won't serve anything that a child genuinely dislikes but genuine dislikes are usually only limited to a very few things and a single meal can be served to suit everyone with adaptations most of the time. I will very occasionally cook two meals (.for example, one child doesn't like pasta, because of the texture so if I am cooking something very pasta based I might pop a piece of fish into the oven for her). I often offer choice within my own parameters, ie choice of veg, so might do broccoli and peas but heap the broccoli on the plate of my broccoli loving child who loves it and only offer him a few peas, and vice versa for my pea fan. I might also make a meal more appealing by perhaps serving shepherds pie in little heart shaped ramekins, or cutting sandwiches into stars, or making fruit kebabs. I don't have a menu, as we will often see what we fancy eating that day. I love food, I love cooking and baking and take a great deal of pleasure in seeing the children eat well, and the children are actively involved in growing food, baking our own bread etc. Snacks tend to be small and non-sugar based, so perhaps whole meal crackers, cheese, crudités to avoid spoiling appetites for dinner. I rarely offer pudding, as in my household we only tend to eat it on special occasions, so withholding is not an issue. I don't allow rudeness either. I would be very disappointed if any of the children told me that my cooking was disgusting - that lacks manners and in ungrateful and disrespectful.

I don't force, I encourage, I enthuse, I inform etc, but I don't pander. If children don't eat and are hungry five minutes later I don't tend to be overly sympathetic either - I'm happy that I've offered them the opportunity to eat plenty of something that I know they like, and if they choose not to then that is their choice. I don't tend to have any issues even with children who are fussy at home, and I think it's telling that children will tuck into things here with genuine enthusiasm but will reject the same foods when parents have provided them at home.

[Happy Bunny]

Why aren't we allowed to refuse to give them pudding if they don't eat their dinner.

[Tinkerbell1979]

Why aren't we allowed to refuse to give them pudding if they don't eat their dinner.

No idea but I refuse to give a child a yummy yogurt or yummy piece of fruit if they chose not to eat the meal I provide that I know they like and gave eaten many times before !

[tess1981]

No idea but I refuse to give a child a yummy yogurt or yummy piece of fruit if they chose not to eat the meal I provide that I know they like and gave eaten many times before !

Same here. I don't cook for it to be binned and half hour later hear I'm hungry... If a child does not eat lunch I take it away after plenty of encouragement first to eat it and say now there is nothing until snack time so I don't want to hear you say you are hungry. I tell parents they didn't eat their lunch but did eat their snack.

[Rickers83]

;[\QUOTE=Happy Bunny;1361470]Why aren't we allowed to refuse to give them pudding if they don't eat their dinner.[/QUOTE]

Ofsted said it was for 2 reasons;
1) the pudding should make up part of a nutritionally balanced meal, therefore by withholding it you are denying them part of their required nutrients
2) using food as a reward can cause problems with food later in life & lead to eating disorders

I personally think its a load of pc twaddle, I was denied pudding if I didn't eat all my dinner & all it did to me was made sure I wasn't a spoilt brat who got everything I whined for

[Fitrix]

I tend to find that the phrase don't like it actually means 'don't fancy it' in practice. Let's face it, if all food were nutritionally equal we would all happily live on chocolate and cheese (well, I would!). As an adult, eating a spinach salad can be tedious, no matter how scrummy the dressing. However, I plod through because I have the knowledge, hindsight and the acute sense of my own mortality to inform my decision making, something that, despite education, I don't think children can fully appreciate until they are adult.

There are plenty of things that we don't allow children to have any autonomy over. We don't allow them to 'dislike' sun cream, or seat belts, or appropriate language or clothing. Nor do we usually allow the parenting styles off our parents to impact on our setting to the point where it compromises adherence to the regs, the law or our own principles. We don't reason that if a parent has a laissez-faire attitude to discipline in their household we should treat the child similarly, nor do we use capital punishment if parents do, or deny a child sleep when a parent asks. Why should I serve up mechanically reconstituted fried chicken preservative and salt filled breadcrumb encased nutritionally bankrupt lumps to children simply because the parents do?

In my house, I serve one meal and it's either eaten or not. I won't serve anything that a child genuinely dislikes but genuine dislikes are usually only limited to a very few things and a single meal can be served to suit everyone with adaptations most of the time. I will very occasionally cook two meals (.for example, one child doesn't like pasta, because of the texture so if I am cooking something very pasta based I might pop a piece of fish into the oven for her). I often offer choice within my own parameters, ie choice of veg, so might do broccoli and peas but heap the broccoli on the plate of my broccoli loving child who loves it and only offer him a few peas, and vice versa for my pea fan. I might also make a meal more appealing by perhaps serving shepherds pie in little heart shaped ramekins, or cutting sandwiches into stars, or making fruit kebabs. I don't have a menu, as we will often see what we fancy eating that day. I love food, I love cooking and baking and take a great deal of pleasure in seeing the children eat well, and the children are actively involved in growing food, baking our own bread etc. Snacks tend to be small and non-sugar based, so perhaps whole meal crackers, cheese, crudités to avoid spoiling appetites for dinner. I rarely offer pudding, as in my household we only tend to eat it on special occasions, so withholding is not an issue. I don't allow rudeness either. I would be very disappointed if any of the children told me that my cooking was disgusting - that lacks manners and in ungrateful and disrespectful.

I don't force, I encourage, I enthuse, I inform etc, but I don't pander. If children don't eat and are hungry five minutes later I don't tend to be overly sympathetic either - I'm happy that I've offered them the opportunity to eat plenty of something that I know they like, and if they choose not to then that is their choice. I don't tend to have any issues even with children who are fussy at home, and I think it's telling that children will tuck into things here with genuine enthusiasm but will reject the same foods when parents have provided them at home.

Couldn't agree more with all that! I think we KNOW the children in our care. We KNOW when they are being "fussy", when they are holding out for something better and in some cases when they are using food as a means of control. I personally deny treat foods if I believe children are not eating a meal I know they like and should be hungry for. The children I have know and understand the rules and it seems to work. I do have to swap a couple of food items to accommodate different children's tastes but this isn't a hard thing to do.
Regards veg - no one likes green stuff, but that's life! I keep the veg portions small but they have to try!

[Fitrix]

[QUOTE=Rickers83

Ofsted said it was for 2 reasons;
1) the pudding should make up part of a nutritionally balanced meal, therefore by withholding it you are denying them part of their required nutrients
2) using food as a reward can cause problems with food later in life & lead to eating disorders

I personally think its a load of pc twaddle, I was denied pudding if I didn't eat all my dinner & all it did to me was made sure I wasn't a spoilt brat who got everything I whined for[/QUOTE]

Typical non thought through c@@p from ofsted. There is nothing nutritionally present in pudding that isn't in main meals except sugar!! Sugar is not required in children's diet at all. Fruit yes - but this they get from snack / breakfast etc?

[k-tots]

Would be interesting to hear what an ofsted inspector does at home with their own children x

[AliceK]

;[\QUOTE=Happy Bunny;1361470]Why aren't we allowed to refuse to give them pudding if they don't eat their dinner.

Ofsted said it was for 2 reasons;
1) the pudding should make up part of a nutritionally balanced meal, therefore by withholding it you are denying them part of their required nutrients
2) using food as a reward can cause problems with food later in life & lead to eating disorders

I personally think its a load of pc twaddle, I was denied pudding if I didn't eat all my dinner & all it did to me was made sure I wasn't a spoilt brat who got everything I whined for[/QUOTE]

I agree entirely

xxx

[Maza]

When I had my inspection I had a child who had only liked pizza, fish fingers etc. We made our own pizzas as our activity that day (did this about once a fortnight anyway) using pitta bread for the base and passata and a variety of toppings (sweetcorn, mushrooms etc) for the children to choose from. The little boy in question usually wolfed down this healthier version of fast food but on Ofsted day he just picked off the cheese and ate that. The inspector didn't bat an eyelid because she could see that healthy/balanced food was on offer. At snack time he was piling his plate with sugar snap peas and I took the plate away telling him that he could have more once he ate what was already on his plate, because like the rest of us I don't want to throw away good food once they have touched/played with it. Again, no issues even though he didn't eat his sugar snap peas. We all know it's 'how' you say something, not 'what' you say.

Funnily enough, I do still give fruit and plain yoghurt if they haven't eaten their savoury food. I personally don't like fruit or plain yogurt so don't see how I am rewarding them! I wouldn't however, give them a piece of chocolate cake if they hadn't eaten their main.

I think it's like anything, common sense and knowing your children informs your judgement. In your heart of hearts, if you know you are doing your best by the child then you are doing fine and some children WILL NOT eat a 'healthy' diet, no matter what we do. We would all like to be part of a 'culture where food is eaten and enjoyed by everyone', but at the same time cannot make/pay for different meals for different families. Simona, I would genuinely like to hear what you would do for a child who will only eat (for whatever reason) fast/processed food and no fruit/veg. I truly don't mean to be rude by bringing up/quoting again, I just want to know if there are any strategies I may have missed. Thanks.

[Starfish007]

I personally would always offer a selection of fruit if children havnt eaten their savoury meal, at least then they've had something x

[bunyip]

cunningly I now cant get the image out of my head of Bunyip '' beating around a linguistic bush!!''

Bit suspicious about the juxtaposition of "cunning" "linguist" and "bush" in that sentence.

[bunyip]

Why aren't we allowed to refuse to give them pudding if they don't eat their dinner.

The official line I've had from NHS nutritionists, supported by my local children's centre is that the whole meal should be 'balanced'. Therefore, the pudding either does not belong in the meal at all (if the meal isn't balanced overall) or it should be 'allowed' just as much as the protein, veg, carbs, etc. etc. if it is all in balance. unfortunately this disregards the propensity of children to pick over balanced meals for the bits they like.

They all forget that humans (children included) are evolutionarily wired to stuff ourselves with high-energy sugars and fats. It's a survival thing. We need the energy in order to chase and hunt mammoth. Problem is we don't chase enough mammoths, so don't get enough exercise. And we don't need to chase mammoths when we can pop down to the shops for food. Changes in human society have happened faster than evolution (and seemingly a even faster than an NHS nutritionist's brain.)

[buzzy bee]

I don't give pudding if they don't eat their main because if they arent hungry for their main then they aren't hungry for pudding. I got sick of all the wasted food.

[cookiesncream]

In answer to the original question Would you let a mindee go hungry if they refuse to eat?

Answer: If they refuse to eat then clearly they are not hungry.

[Happy Bunny]

Well i have always done the rule 'If they don't eat at least half of their dinner, I will NOT give them pudding'

I offer a dinner that is nutritional and that they all have eaten at least once before.

I have always told parents my rule, and they all AGREE with me.

Ofsted can go PICKLE themselves.

I will not change my household rules.

I have brought up 5 children and about 20 minded children like this.

[bindy]

I would not let a child go hungry. Personally I make a choice every meal anyway, but I have lots of children with 2 assistants so able to do so. Most of the food gets eaten and the kids like a choice. I always provide something that I know each child likes. Kids are not fussy eaters, they have likes and dislikes, their taste buds are very different to adults and at the end of the day most teenagers and adults don't live on chicken nuggets and chips! My daughter had an eating disorder when she was ver young, thank god I did not have the attitude most CM have when it comes to eat up or nothing else. She is 6 years old now and eats everything mainly healthy and sometimes not so healthy. If it really bothers you why not ask for a packed lunch/tea. Has a parent I wold rather do that, than my child go hungry and her feeling stressed out at lunch time or you for that matter.

[Hatchlings]

I have been given instructions by mum if lol dont eat half the main meal then no pudding but I can offer fruit after 30 mins if they are still hungry. However no like jelly or ice cream etc. Due to its mums request i follow as parents know & have there own rules. I have snacks of fruit on offer when ever a child wants it, its within view the whole time & they all know can have any they like. The dinner is a healthy balance of 2 dinner chooses taken from the local school dinners menu daily. I run 2 weeks different to there 5 week rota. The children seem to like this.

[bindy]

I have been given instructions by mum if lol dont eat half the main meal then no pudding but I can offer fruit after 30 mins if they are still hungry. However no like jelly or ice cream etc. Due to its mums request i follow as parents know & have there own rules. I have snacks of fruit on offer when ever a child wants it, its within view the whole time & they all know can have any they like. The dinner is a healthy balance of 2 dinner chooses taken from the local school dinners menu daily. I run 2 weeks different to there 5 week rota. The children seem to like this.

Yes I agree with the fruit, I always allow fruit but I don't really do puddings, only yoghurt and fruit! That's pudding to me.

I understand kids have to eat something to get ice cream or chocolate sponge., my argument is making food they just don't like and expecting them to eat it. I always speak to parents when kids are not wanting to eat. Ask for a list of foods they will eat.

[blue bear]

They either eat or they don't.
I offer a balanced diet through the day so no puddings or afters at all, I think it's wrong to always offer something sweet after a savoury,sets up bad habits for life.
Yogurts,fruit etc for snack but not after a main meal.