spending more than you earn

toddlers896 · 15-04-2014, 08:33 PM

does anybody else find they do this? my problem is outings. When i first started two years ago i included playgroups and outings in the cost. The playgroups are not too bad, its the softplay areas and the other outings that use up the money. I suppose i could either put up my prices or ask parents for money but i don't really like to do either. Oh its a tough one but i would like to start earning more.

**karen2010** · 15-04-2014, 08:47 PM

Toddlers !! You are running a business !
Income minus expenditure equals your profit !!!!
As much as I love my mindless - and I do love them - I never spend more £1 on a playgroup. Any extra outings I ask the Parents for the entrance fee - if they are happy for them to go of course.
I take a pack up everywhere, I never buy food when out.
I research free places to go where I live, that the mindees will enjoy, I don't buy ice creams for them, I don't buy gifts for them from the gift shop, I watch every penny I spend.
Because everything I spend on them is coming out of my profit !
That said I get them lovely birthday and Xmas presents, and I spend lots on resources etc, but these resources are business expenses and therefore tax deductible.
Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but the bottom line always has to be your profit at the end of the day !!
Xxx

**moggy** · 15-04-2014, 08:48 PM

I just don't go to places that cost- toddler group is £1 a week total. I do have an annual membership to a soft play place and that is £100 a year, so only £2 a week or so. If it costs more than £2-3 total I do not do it.

I actively seek out free/low cost activities- parks, library, woods, beach, playgrounds, looking at train station/fire station/post office, going to town fountains, pet shops, lots of time in the garden, local nature reserve.

You need to be running a sustainable business, if you are sure it is these entrance costs that are causing the problem I would be re-planning a typical month. Every time you would have been paying out for one of these expensive places substitute it with something free, like climbing at the playground rather than the soft play, a visit to a pet shop rather than a farm park (they love spotting who eats what in the pet food aisle!).

I find 1 toddler group is plenty in a week, I find there are much better opportunities for creative play and exploration out and about, rather than in a church hall- maybe you can try to narrow down to one or two of the best toddler groups and scrap the rest? Or see what is free at your Children and Family Centre.

See it as a positive change rather than 'cost cutting'- more creative, more real-life learning, more being out in nature... however you look at it it can be a really good opportunity to make some changes that can benefit your business. Bet the children will love it xx

**loocyloo** · 15-04-2014, 08:54 PM

:-)
I do spend more on toddlergroups ( because they all cost a fortune here ... But ... I don't go every week ) we go occasionally to soft play and other places I need to pay for entry. I have annual passes to other places we go and we do lots of free activities too.

I take pack ups but do sometimes buy snacks or a treat.

I don't ask parents to contribute as it's my choice to go ( but I reserve the right to ask holiday Schoolies for cost of entry etc )

I just make sure that I don't go over my budget for the week in expenses. Sometimes I think ... oh that would cost me the equivalent of one child for 3 hrs etc ... helps get spending in perspective.

toddlers896 · 15-04-2014, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by karen2010

Toddlers !! You are running a business !
Income minus expenditure equals your profit !!!!
As much as I love my mindless - and I do love them - I never spend more £1 on a playgroup. Any extra outings I ask the Parents for the entrance fee - if they are happy for them to go of course.
I take a pack up everywhere, I never buy food when out.
I research free places to go where I live, that the mindees will enjoy, I don't buy ice creams for them, I don't buy gifts for them from the gift shop, I watch every penny I spend.
Because everything I spend on them is coming out of my profit !
That said I get them lovely birthday and Xmas presents, and I spend lots on resources etc, but these resources are business expenses and therefore tax deductible.
Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but the bottom line always has to be your profit at the end of the day !!
Xxx

Your right karen. This is where I am going wrong. I buy icecreams, treats, we go to zoos, theme parks, everything. Sometimes i treat them too much as if they were my own. Ok , after the easter hols i need to change my way of working. Will change my admissions to playgroups included in the price but any outings parents will have to pay. No more icecreams, outings etc over £1.
Do you think it would be wrong to send a letter to parents saying I am not putting my prices up but outings are no longer included in my prices. Oh i hate doing things like this x

**karen2010** · 15-04-2014, 09:24 PM

No I don't think it's wrong ! You are obviously a lovely kind person but they are not your children and you just can't spend on them as if they are. I also have the mindset of "how many hours do I have to work to pay for this ?" It's a great way to stop you spending !
If you don't earn a decent profit you will have to stop Childminding as it won't be a business worth running - it's not easy but you need to bite the bullet and get tough- if it helps then write down everything you spend for a week, compare it to your income and be prepared for a big shock !
If my mindees ask for ice creams etc I just say " your mummy and daddy buy you ice creams - I'm your childminder and I don't"
Sounds harsh but it gets easier !
BTW I am a total pushover with my own Daughter !!
Xxx

**alwaysright** · 15-04-2014, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by karen2010

No I don't think it's wrong ! You are obviously a lovely kind person but they are not your children and you just can't spend on them as if they are. I also have the mindset of "how many hours do I have to work to pay for this ?" It's a great way to stop you spending !
If you don't earn a decent profit you will have to stop Childminding as it won't be a business worth running - it's not easy but you need to bite the bullet and get tough- if it helps then write down everything you spend for a week, compare it to your income and be prepared for a big shock !
If my mindees ask for ice creams etc I just say " your mummy and daddy buy you ice creams - I'm your childminder and I don't"
Sounds harsh but it gets easier !
BTW I am a total pushover with my own Daughter !!

Xxx

i agree with everything karen said, its a business, a job, a way to earn money! there is no way i would do this and come out at a loss, i would rather sit and watch jeremy kyle every day than work 50 hours every week with no profit at the end of it!
one of the best things i do is "how many hours do i need to work to buy this" and i also use this for parents turning up early and late.
i pass on the charges for all playgroups and outings to parents, it may be my choice to take the children but i take them for their benefit not mine, if i wanted a nice day out at the zoo i would go at the weekend with my own child and pay a lot less to get in.

**karen2010** · 15-04-2014, 09:48 PM

Ooh I love Jeremy Kyle ! My guilty pleasure on my rare days off !
My best friend met him once at a service station on the M62 - he was surrounded by Minders - she went up to say Hello and she said he was absolutely lovely !!
We applied to be in the audience but you have to live in Manchester......bummer.
I am literally the saddest person on here aren't I ??!!!

**tulip0803** · 15-04-2014, 09:53 PM

I try to go to free places - I have a membership of National Trust & English Heritage (EH admits all children free with a member

) so they are free after initial membership fee. Local museums are free, parks are free, libraries are free, beach is free. Packed lunches are almost always taken, as a special treat if I have one or 2 mindees we may have lunch out somewhere cheap (very rare). A couple of times a year I treat them to soft play (£20+ entry fee restricts this along with 14 mile drive). No ice creams - I buy cheap ice-pops or make ice lollies and bribe them to come home and we get them out the freezer (I have got a 2nd hand children's hand ice cream maker that we are trying this week). If I planned a trip that was quite expensive I would charge parents entry if they wanted their child to go - most give their children "pocket money" if we go somewhere.

Yesterday we went to the park in the town about 5 miles away (better than village one) then spent the afternoon in the garden with ice pops (children aged 2,3,4,4,10)
Today - local family centre (donations

) 1 mile away, sand play, made easter egg nests, played in garden same children as yesterday.
Tomorrow - Free family funday at local museum with picnic (same aged children as other days but have swapped the 3 year old for another one) 14 miles away
Thursday - Poss local family centre and/or park & river walk
Friday - Easter Egg hunt at NT property (£2 per child) (yes I know it is good Friday but DH works it as the buses run & 3 of my parents are all working as normal

except the teacher)

Next Tues is the mobile library
after that see what the weather is like

I spend as little as possible

**karen2010** · 15-04-2014, 09:56 PM

Tulip I live in the Midlands bit I wish I lived by a beach !!! Xx

**tulip0803** · 15-04-2014, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by karen2010

Tulip I live in the Midlands bit I wish I lived by a beach !!! Xx

We are about 20 mins from the real beach but the park we went to on Monday has a river beach, flat and pebbley

great to throw stones in and paddle

**karen2010** · 15-04-2014, 10:02 PM

Yep still jealous !! Xxx

**k1rstie** · 16-04-2014, 07:03 AM

I also use, 'how much have I earned today?'. I find the costs go up when you also include your own kids.

I work out the mileage costs before going on a long trip.

toddlers896 · 16-04-2014, 07:48 AM

can you lovely people help me write a letter to parents please explaining that softplay and outings to theme parks etc are no longer included in my price. I have never in the two years of childminding put my prices up and they are probably not bothered if we dont go to soft play etc but i would like to just inform them that if we do go from now on, they will have to pay. How do i word this? not very good at this kind of thing.
Thanks guys x

**yummyripples** · 16-04-2014, 09:13 AM

I am going against the grain here a bit.
We do toddler group once a week (£2 including toast) . Our soft play is £2 per child for childminders and we get a free coffee. Zoos and farms etc are usually free for under 3 and I ask for admission fees.
I very rarely buy ice creams but that's because they are astronomical in price.

The way I see it is that these experiences makes me enjoy what I am doing more.
I access a lot of free places as well. I don't buy many new toys so I keep the costs down there but my expenditure is about 40% of my income.
Toddlers if I were you I would put my prices up and not change what you are doing. I have it in my contract that the fee increases by £2 per day on the 1st April every year

toddlers896 · 16-04-2014, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by yummyripples

I am going against the grain here a bit.
We do toddler group once a week (£2 including toast) . Our soft play is £2 per child for childminders and we get a free coffee. Zoos and farms etc are usually free for under 3 and I ask for admission fees.
I very rarely buy ice creams but that's because they are astronomical in price.

The way I see it is that these experiences makes me enjoy what I am doing more.
I access a lot of free places as well. I don't buy many new toys so I keep the costs down there but my expenditure is about 40% of my income.
Toddlers if I were you I would put my prices up and not change what you are doing. I have it in my contract that the fee increases by £2 per day on the 1st April every year

This is how i feel yummyripples. It definitely makes me enjoy the job more. Perhaps i will just up my prices.

**munch149** · 16-04-2014, 12:58 PM

Luckily I go to groups every day here and only pay for one of them. We have lots of lovely childrens centres that run them all. I do ask parents for money towards any other outings tho as otherwise I wouldn't want to do then. Anything over £2 I ask parents permission first tho so that they agree they will pay the expense.

**Tealady** · 16-04-2014, 01:52 PM

I would put that due to rising costs you have had to review your fees and rather then increase your hourly/daily rate you have decided not to include trips and excursions.

You will need to give some amount of notice as it is a change in your terms of business.

Also you need to think about what would happen if you stated you were going to soft play and one set of parents state they aren't paying.

**funemnx** · 16-04-2014, 02:43 PM

I would put your prices up a little bit to cover what you spend on the lo's. Put the fees up a liitle bit each year, say in April and parents will absorb a small price rise rather than a bigger one every 4 or 5 years...

**wee_elf** · 16-04-2014, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Tealady

I would put that due to rising costs you have had to review your fees and rather then increase your hourly/daily rate you have decided not to include trips and excursions.

You will need to give some amount of notice as it is a change in your terms of business.

Also you need to think about what would happen if you stated you were going to soft play and one set of parents state they aren't paying.

I think this is great advice