Shocking!!.....
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    Default Shocking!!.....

    ......to think that hundreds of people (mainly Eastern Europeans apparently!!) are paid less than the minimum wage!! - BBC NEWS!

    Clearly never investigated the wages of childminders!!

    Average of £3.50-£4.50 per hour for a 10hr day! Looking after the children of the future!!

    Clearly shifting mattresses for £40 for a 7hr day is extortion!!! And deserves a much higher pay packet!! What a load of ball cocks!

    I know we can have more children to increase our daily pay, but why should we? Every child requires just as much work as the next one!

    We have do twice the work to earn anywhere near the minimum wage! But no one seems to have realised that yet! They just continue to advertise the fact that childcare is sooooo expensive!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by emma04 View Post
    ......to think that hundreds of people (mainly Eastern Europeans apparently!!) are paid less than the minimum wage!! - BBC NEWS!

    Clearly never investigated the wages of childminders!!

    Average of £3.50-£4.50 per hour for a 10hr day! Looking after the children of the future!!

    Clearly shifting mattresses for £40 for a 7hr day is extortion!!! And deserves a much higher pay packet!! What a load of ball cocks!

    I know we can have more children to increase our daily pay, but why should we? Every child requires just as much work as the next one!

    We have do twice the work to earn anywhere near the minimum wage! But no one seems to have realised that yet! They just continue to advertise the fact that childcare is sooooo expensive!!
    I see your point and agree but those who keep moaning childcare is expensive will multiply £3.50 x 3 children and come up with £10.50ph...unfortunately they never think of the expenses we incur so they are looking at it with blinkers on!

    Which reminds me to ask Lucy Powell MP on twitter #eytalking tonight how much she is proposing to pay us for 25 hrs of childcare...let alone for universal childcare??

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    Today I worked all day for the princely sum of £2.22 per hour Somrthings not right somewhere.

    xx

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    Quote Originally Posted by emma04 View Post
    ......to think that hundreds of people (mainly Eastern Europeans apparently!!) are paid less than the minimum wage!! - BBC NEWS!

    Clearly never investigated the wages of childminders!!

    Average of £3.50-£4.50 per hour for a 10hr day! Looking after the children of the future!!

    Clearly shifting mattresses for £40 for a 7hr day is extortion!!! And deserves a much higher pay packet!! What a load of ball cocks!

    I know we can have more children to increase our daily pay, but why should we? Every child requires just as much work as the next one!

    We have do twice the work to earn anywhere near the minimum wage! But no one seems to have realised that yet! They just continue to advertise the fact that childcare is sooooo expensive!!
    Not really, they are most often here illegally, not paying tax or NI and not mean to be working here. They are lucky they get paid anything to be honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceK View Post
    Today I worked all day for the princely sum of £2.22 per hour Somrthings not right somewhere.

    xx
    less your tax that you gladly collect and pay to the government for providing so many obstacles, hindrances and bureaucratic legislation to extend your daily workload without remuneration just to make it all worthwhile

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceK View Post
    Today I worked all day for the princely sum of £2.22 per hour Somrthings not right somewhere.

    xx
    That is the lowest fee rate I have ever come across...my goodness!
    Maybe we should all up our rates and make the govt think again...the fact we charge such low fees has not helped us really...govt thinks we do out of the goodness of our hearts....my view!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    That is the lowest fee rate I have ever come across...my goodness!
    Maybe we should all up our rates and make the govt think again...the fact we charge such low fees has not helped us really...govt thinks we do out of the goodness of our hearts....my view!
    No that is not my hourly rate but after taking off my expenses that is what I am left with per hour for today. Having done my tax return recently I was shocked at just how much my expenses have gone up - food, heating etc over the past year, but at least it has focused my mind as to what % of my hourly rate is actually mine before tax / NI obviously.

    xxxx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    That is the lowest fee rate I have ever come across...my goodness! Maybe we should all up our rates and make the govt think again...the fact we charge such low fees has not helped us really...govt thinks we do out of the goodness of our hearts....my view!
    I agree with you on this - I'm shocked sometimes when I see how little some people charge (presumably because that's the going rate) & do think if CM's charged a higher rate we would sit closer to a (far more highly regarded) nanny than daytime babysitter.

    I think paying someone to care for your child & expecting a professional service for less than £4 a hour (I actually think sub £5 but realise this might not be realistic) is ludicrous & some CM's should be reviewing fees urgently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsP2C View Post
    I agree with you on this - I'm shocked sometimes when I see how little some people charge (presumably because that's the going rate) & do think if CM's charged a higher rate we would sit closer to a (far more highly regarded) nanny than daytime babysitter.

    I think paying someone to care for your child & expecting a professional service for less than £4 a hour (I actually think sub £5 but realise this might not be realistic) is ludicrous & some CM's should be reviewing fees urgently.
    My thinking is the minimum we should charge is £5 across the country...multiplied by 3 children = £15 ...take 50% off for tax and expenses and we get £7.50 ph which is near the living wage..

    we have a right to a decent living and cannot continue to subsidise childcare for 'ANY' govt...the more we do it the less they will invest properly in childcare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    My thinking is the minimum we should charge is £5 across the country...multiplied by 3 children = £15 ...take 50% off for tax and expenses and we get £7.50 ph which is near the living wage..

    we have a right to a decent living and cannot continue to subsidise childcare for 'ANY' govt...the more we do it the less they will invest properly in childcare
    How can parents who only earn minimum wage themselves pay £5 an hour per child?

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    I don't get out of bed for less than £8 per child

    Expensive yes but worth it, apparently so!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hectors house View Post
    How can parents who only earn minimum wage themselves pay £5 an hour per child?
    You can claim up to £175 a week for 1 child, £300 for 2 under working tax credits then there's child tax credits, child benefit, 15 free hours for EY, childcare vouchers, sibling discounts (more viable if the usual rate is higher) and of course some employers have on-site crèches & nurseries. Of course these won't all apply to everyone but I fail to see why childminders are (rightly to a degree) forced to be professional & offer the same learning opportunities as a nursery but should charge so much less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hectors house View Post
    How can parents who only earn minimum wage themselves pay £5 an hour per child?
    2 parents earning the minimum wage means they earn £6.31 x2 = £12.62
    In addition to that they have a variety of benefits the state provides for them...and C/Vouchers too if their employer is in the scheme...not sure about anyone else but I personally get no benefits, subsidise childcare and am fed up being told the utter lie we are 'too expensive', we need to be affordable and high quality
    I have asked this before :affordable to whom? if delivery is not affordable to me I will opt out
    High quality is not cheap...try buying an organic chicken for £3!!!

    Childcare is a family requirement so both parents should contribute not just the 'mother' as we usually hear...why do we always quote the mothers' wages and leave the father out?
    the same way I think both parents contribute towards the mortgage, food and utilities bills
    we should also respect those mothers who wish to stay at home and nurture their babies in their ever decreasing childhood.


    I hope the minimum wage gets raisesd...in fact I am a huge fan of the living wage....but that is where we have gone wrong because we worry about the demand side and never the supply one: the result is CMs are leaving in droves, many contemplate something else and the govt continues to see us as the charities that subsidise childcare for them.....entirely my view of course!

    We have put ourselves in a very vulnerable position because we do our job out of commitment and love...yes...maybe.... but our families and standards of living matter too....our mortgage needs to be paid and food put on the table

    We have gone on and on complaining about this and that...writing letters...trying to engage with the powers that be ...it has got us nowhere, maybe we should do like the French and take to the street in protest...then the govt might take notice

    So yes while I totally understand that parents are on the minimum wage my question is: why should I earn less than that?
    I refuse to be reassured that £3.50 is fine for delivering high quality education and care....

    In addition I have no idea what parents can claim from the state, I have no idea of tax credits, I never get involved with parents' benefits...it is their business not mine...how many CMs also keep their earnings low so they can continue to claim Tax Credits...that is not what some of us do...so lets think again before saying 'but how can parents afford it'?
    My area is affluent ...my fees affordable to these families and yet they have moaned at times while sending their children to private schools and living in £1,000,000 house
    So yes let the state help the needy...that is what the wonderful welfare system is for..... but lets stop subsidising the well off


    once again entirely my view!!
    Last edited by Simona; 29-01-2014 at 08:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simona View Post
    2 parents earning the minimum wage means they earn £6.31 x2 = £12.62
    In addition to that they have a variety of benefits the state provides for them...and C/Vouchers too if their employer is in the scheme...not sure about anyone else but I personally get no benefits, subsidise childcare and am fed up being told the utter lie we are 'too expensive', we need to be affordable and high quality
    I have asked this before :affordable to whom? if delivery is not affordable to me I will opt out
    High quality is not cheap...try buying an organic chicken for £3!!!

    Childcare is a family requirement so both parents should contribute not just the 'mother' as we usually hear...why do we always quote the mothers' wages and leave the father out?
    the same way I think both parents contribute towards the mortgage, food and utilities bills
    we should also respect those mothers who wish to stay at home and nurture their babies in their ever decreasing childhood.


    I hope the minimum wage gets raisesd...in fact I am a huge fan of the living wage....but that is where we have gone wrong because we worry about the demand side and never the supply one: the result is CMs are leaving in droves, many contemplate something else and the govt continues to see us as the charities that subsidise childcare for them.....entirely my view of course!

    We have put ourselves in a very vulnerable position because we do our job out of commitment and love...yes...maybe.... but our families and standards of living matter too....our mortgage needs to be paid and food put on the table

    We have gone on and on complaining about this and that...writing letters...trying to engage with the powers that be ...it has got us nowhere, maybe we should do like the French and take to the street in protest...then the govt might take notice

    So yes while I totally understand that parents are on the minimum wage my question is: why should I earn less than that?
    I refuse to be reassured that £3.50 is fine for delivering high quality education and care....

    In addition I have no idea what parents can claim from the state, I have no idea of tax credits, I never get involved with parents' benefits...it is their business not mine...how many CMs also keep their earnings low so they can continue to claim Tax Credits...that is not what some of us do...so lets think again before saying 'but how can parents afford it'?
    My area is affluent ...my fees affordable to these families and yet they have moaned at times while sending their children to private schools and living in £1,000,000 house
    So yes let the state help the needy...that is what the wonderful welfare system is for..... but lets stop subsidising the well off


    once again entirely my view!!
    Well said. I agree entirely

    xxxx

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    Quote Originally Posted by hectors house View Post
    How can parents who only earn minimum wage themselves pay £5 an hour per child?
    The whole economy is in mess! Wages are too low to live on, but everyone has to work to pay the mortgage. Unless you are very lucky with helpful rich grandparents (who don't have to work themselves), then you're laughing all the way to the bank. Most other countries help parents with childcare. This situation can't go on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceK View Post
    Today I worked all day for the princely sum of £2.22 per hour Somrthings not right somewhere.

    xx
    But is that wholly true?

    I started working as a childminder so I could be at home with my own two children. It wasn't economic for me to go back to work and pay for childcare. While they were little I didn't earn very much per hour because I was restricted to the number of children I could have. However over those years I rarely paid for childcare for them, I saved a fortune on childcare fees and I was at home with them something I wouldn't change for the world. I didn't expect to earn much when they were little and I would never have done it if we had depended on me earning the same as I had as an experience Catering Manager. We had about 4 really tough years and then I was able to have an extra under 5 and I then had more before and after school.

    Now they have essentially left home, if I am full I can't complain about my income at all, I am earning double what mt 21 yr old daughter does being paid min wage and she has a longer day than me leaving the house at 7.30am and often not home before 6.30pm.
    I have not had to commute to work for the last 20 years and endure the time and cost that incurs. I spend much less on the clothes I need to wear for cm compared to what I needed for work. I can do washing, housework and other home related jobs during my day instead of doing them after work or at the weekends leaving me with more free time. I am much less stressed than I was when I commuted to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hectors house View Post
    How can parents who only earn minimum wage themselves pay £5 an hour per child?
    But those parents get help to pay their childcare don't they? They get up to 70% paid for by the government so it is not a realistic statement. So for every £100 of childcare the parent will likely only pay £30 out of their own pocket. My daughter is on min wage in a full time job and she could pay that % without much difficulty. I suspect that someone on min wage is unlikely to have a mortgage and will pay rent for which again they will prob have help?

    I have had many single mums on my books and do at the moment and not all of them have been high earners and in fact most far from it but they have managed to pay my fees with help from tax credits. I charge more than £5 per hour as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickysmiths View Post
    But is that wholly true?

    I started working as a childminder so I could be at home with my own two children. It wasn't economic for me to go back to work and pay for childcare. While they were little I didn't earn very much per hour because I was restricted to the number of children I could have. However over those years I rarely paid for childcare for them, I saved a fortune on childcare fees and I was at home with them something I wouldn't change for the world. I didn't expect to earn much when they were little and I would never have done it if we had depended on me earning the same as I had as an experience Catering Manager. We had about 4 really tough years and then I was able to have an extra under 5 and I then had more before and after school.

    Now they have essentially left home, if I am full I can't complain about my income at all, I am earning double what mt 21 yr old daughter does being paid min wage and she has a longer day than me leaving the house at 7.30am and often not home before 6.30pm.
    I have not had to commute to work for the last 20 years and endure the time and cost that incurs. I spend much less on the clothes I need to wear for cm compared to what I needed for work. I can do washing, housework and other home related jobs during my day instead of doing them after work or at the weekends leaving me with more free time. I am much less stressed than I was when I commuted to work.
    Oh trust me it's true. I worked from 7.30 - 6pm with one child in the morning and 2 in the afternoon. After doing my latest tax return I can honestly say my expenses are 60% of what I charge. It's not even like I am constantly buying expensive resources either it's basic things like the cost of food, cooking, heating, nappies (yes I provide them) etc etc. Even on my busiest days when I have 3 EY children in the morning and 4 in the afternoon my "gross" pay if you like is only around £5 per hour after taking off expenses.
    I have after seeing all this in black and white doing my tax return come to the conclusion that I can do one of 2 things:

    1) Stop offering flexibility to shift workers who have a full-time space for part-time pay and instead go back to having full-time children.
    2) Seriously cut back on my expenses but I don't see how I CAN cut back much.

    I used to have a VERY well paid job which I could "leave behind" come 5.30pm and not worry about it again until I got to the office the next day and yes I had money to burn and NO I do not regret leaving all that to do what I do now and whilst my children are at primary school and whilst my youngest has medical problems I will continue to do this job but I am seriously seriously sick and tired of hearing about how expensive childcare is and people assuming that because we charge £X per hour and we have X number of children that means we must be earning £X'ss. The reality of it is, certainly in my case, that carrying on like this is NOT a sustainable business.

    xxx

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickysmiths View Post
    But those parents get help to pay their childcare don't they? They get up to 70% paid for by the government so it is not a realistic statement. So for every £100 of childcare the parent will likely only pay £30 out of their own pocket. My daughter is on min wage in a full time job and she could pay that % without much difficulty. I suspect that someone on min wage is unlikely to have a mortgage and will pay rent for which again they will prob have help?

    I have had many single mums on my books and do at the moment and not all of them have been high earners and in fact most far from it but they have managed to pay my fees with help from tax credits. I charge more than £5 per hour as well.
    I don't think many families with 2 parents working will get 70% of their childcare paid.

    Also they wont get help with their rent if they are both working. Yes they may get tax credits but that doesn't dramatically increase the income.

    Single parents get more help with childcare tax credits then working couples do.

    I was so much better off being a working single mother than I am being part of a working married couple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceK View Post
    Oh trust me it's true. I worked from 7.30 - 6pm with one child in the morning and 2 in the afternoon. After doing my latest tax return I can honestly say my expenses are 60% of what I charge. It's not even like I am constantly buying expensive resources either it's basic things like the cost of food, cooking, heating, nappies (yes I provide them) etc etc. Even on my busiest days when I have 3 EY children in the morning and 4 in the afternoon my "gross" pay if you like is only around £5 per hour after taking off expenses.
    I have after seeing all this in black and white doing my tax return come to the conclusion that I can do one of 2 things:

    1) Stop offering flexibility to shift workers who have a full-time space for part-time pay and instead go back to having full-time children.
    2) Seriously cut back on my expenses but I don't see how I CAN cut back much.

    I used to have a VERY well paid job which I could "leave behind" come 5.30pm and not worry about it again until I got to the office the next day and yes I had money to burn and NO I do not regret leaving all that to do what I do now and whilst my children are at primary school and whilst my youngest has medical problems I will continue to do this job but I am seriously seriously sick and tired of hearing about how expensive childcare is and people assuming that because we charge £X per hour and we have X number of children that means we must be earning £X'ss. The reality of it is, certainly in my case, that carrying on like this is NOT a sustainable business.

    xxx
    I do feel for you but when I started with my own two as a baby and toddler I had one child every afternoon and all I expected to make was enough money to buy all the birthday and Christmas presents and pay for the rent for two weeks on a cottage in Cornwall and I just about managed to do that.

    I must say my expenses are usually 30% or less and I keep an eye as I go through the year not to exceed this. If they were always a lot more than this it would not be worth me working. I lost 3 full timers within 3 months 3 years ago and it was devastating. I have only now three years on, built back up to that with one full timer who started in Sept, a 3 day a week who started in Jan and a 2 day starting in Feb with two after school. My income halved but interestingly even with the fixed costs my expenses still stayed at the 28 to 30% level. It would never be worth my while working if my expenses when over this because I wouldn't be left with any disposable income.

    Unlike your job I couldn't always leave it behind when I walked out at the end of the day, I often brought work home with me.

 

 
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