My 3 year old funding is through!

**teacakepenguin** · 23-01-2014, 11:43 AM

Yippee, I'm now approved to claim 3-4 year old funding!

I do, however, have a Form Of Doom to look through, but hey ho.

I have a very happy parent with her early years child who has just started with me

Jx

**AdeleMarie88** · 23-01-2014, 12:36 PM

Is it a long process to get the funding? I have all nearly 3yrd olds and I am thinking about applying, the only thing is, it would mean a cut in my hourly rate as I read the govt only subsidise you £3.80 p/h and where I live the average childminder fees are £5.63p/h(although I don't charge that much!)

**Tazmin68** · 23-01-2014, 12:45 PM

Things have changed now so the process should not take as long as it used to. I took me 6 months to get approved a very long time ago. Yes the negative can be the hourly rate although in my case my hourly rate is £3.50 per hour and the funding is £3.57. What I don't really appreciate is that we get audited and have to show what we are doing with the money as it is not to be used for childcare and used for education and resources. I have never been audited before and have an audit next week. I don't appreciate having to prove what I am spending the money on. I have my pacey accounts book and receipts and that should be enough but I have been told that I have to show bank statements for resources as receipts are not enough. I will wait and see.

**AdeleMarie88** · 23-01-2014, 01:51 PM

Thank you tazmin, I didn't know about the audit!! Funnily enough postman has just been and my LA have sent me some info about it! I also didn't realise you had to be graded good or outstanding from ofsted!! X

**AliceK** · 23-01-2014, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Tazmin68

Things have changed now so the process should not take as long as it used to. I took me 6 months to get approved a very long time ago. Yes the negative can be the hourly rate although in my case my hourly rate is £3.50 per hour and the funding is £3.57. What I don't really appreciate is that we get audited and have to show what we are doing with the money as it is not to be used for childcare and used for education and resources. I have never been audited before and have an audit next week. I don't appreciate having to prove what I am spending the money on. I have my pacey accounts book and receipts and that should be enough but I have been told that I have to show bank statements for resources as receipts are not enough. I will wait and see.

wow they really want to encourage more childminders to offer the funding don't they

The hourly rate for 3 / 4 yr funding here is £3.17ph. The 2 yr funding is much better but how can I take on a 2 yr old knowing I will have to give notice once the child turns 3 as I cannot afford to work for £3.17ph - ridiculous and then they wonder why childminders aren't keen to offer the funding

xxxxx

**Tazmin68** · 23-01-2014, 05:19 PM

The issue with 2 year funding is that you might find that these children might have additional needs. Which results in higher outgoings. The two year funding here is around the £4.90 mark. I'm curious about audit which I have next Friday. My issue is that with all my funded children I drive to collect them and take them back and I feel that out what the la is paying me it should not just be resources as I have fuel costs for these particular children and as we have three children under 5 year then I should be able to again make a deduction of £2.10 per hour as a wage as based on the three children this is still just under the minimum wage.

**AdeleMarie88** · 23-01-2014, 05:32 PM

I think because of this I won't bother I would much prefer my current parents to use their 15hrs at nursery and I will take on additional children to make up my loss in wage! X

**LauraS** · 23-01-2014, 05:42 PM

Why do you have to show where the money has gone? That's ludicrous. It's perfectly possible for a childminder to deliver high quality education without spending a penny on new resources (don't tell my dh). Are we not allowed to be making a profit?

I could understand if it were a capital grant or something, but surely this is different?

This reminds me why I don't do the free funding, my la has so many hoops to jump through... Joining the network and essays and observations of my practice and paperwork and meetings etc. I'd like to offer it to be able to retain children as they get older but can't face taking on any more paperwork, let alone working not for profit!

**Sarahj2012** · 23-01-2014, 05:42 PM

teacakepenguin How long did it take to all go through once all the paperwork was completed ? x

**ninagee** · 23-01-2014, 06:17 PM

We have to submit our accounts within 6 months after the financial year has ended!

I now have a separate account for the funding. They will just get a spreadsheet with details how the funds have been spent.

I did ask for details e.g. a list of what we can spend the money on. All I was told is to spend it on the 'education' of that child.

They would not give me any more information so looking forward to my first audit!

Can anyone help on what they spend the funding on? It would be much appreciated as this is my first term with the funding.

Nina :-)

Simona · 23-01-2014, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by ninagee

We have to submit our accounts within 6 months after the financial year has ended!

I now have a separate account for the funding. They will just get a spreadsheet with details how the funds have been spent.

I did ask for details e.g. a list of what we can spend the money on. All I was told is to spend it on the 'education' of that child.

They would not give me any more information so looking forward to my first audit!

Can anyone help on what they spend the funding on? It would be much appreciated as this is my first term with the funding.

Nina :-)

LAs have to audit to make sure you are passing on the funding to parents ...in other words you are not charging them for the 15 hrs of free education
All I would show them is the invoices you have sent parents where you clearly give them those hours for free

LAs have no right to look into your accounts...the audit should be to make sure you are using the money as intended...I am sure that if parents were not receiving their free hours they would soon ring the LA and report it...

No way would I allow my LA to look at my accounts...I have nothing to hide and a very competent accountant for that reason
I think some LAs are going beyond their duty...my view of course and if the process has changed I would look into it

**ninagee** · 23-01-2014, 07:13 PM

They want to see exactly what we spend the money on as well as the invoices given to parents.

A local childminder during her audit was told to highlight in her attendance register which are the funded children. This would be checked against the invoices issued.

I will not be sending my full accounts, only what the funding has been spent on. So I am designing a spreadsheet which hopefully will work out my wages, expenses, utilities, resources bought etc for the funded hours only.

If they ask for the full accounts, I will refuse! I would remove my name from the funded providers.

Nina :-)

**Smiley** · 23-01-2014, 07:32 PM

Goodness, it's terrible that some LA's are asking to see accounts and asking what the funding money is spent on!

Simona · 23-01-2014, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by ninagee

They want to see exactly what we spend the money on as well as the invoices given to parents.

A local childminder during her audit was told to highlight in her attendance register which are the funded children. This would be checked against the invoices issued.

I will not be sending my full accounts, only what the funding has been spent on. So I am designing a spreadsheet which hopefully will work out my wages, expenses, utilities, resources bought etc for the funded hours only.

If they ask for the full accounts, I will refuse! I would remove my name from the funded providers.

Nina :-)

The children in your register will be the same ones you have advised your LA you will draw funding for...I believe most LAs do a census the term before and provide them with names and dates of birth to verify....that and your invoices to parents will be evidence you are passing on the funding to them and not charging them ...LAs hold records of all funded children

The money you receive goes into your account for food, outings and all the rest and that is your business for which you are accountable to HMRC
Considering that most LAs fund us well below the going rate and we 'SUBSIDISE' education it is a bit of a cheek

very recently a provider was charged for fraud for several thousands of ££££...it was reported in NWorld...she was falsifying the names of the children and pocketing the money and got caught but...that is another matter altogether compared to honest CMs who are doing what is required and complying to the rules.

**blue bear** · 23-01-2014, 08:21 PM

I've been drawing doen funding for a very long time, have never been asked to show where I spend the money I earn.
I have to have a separate register for funded children so they check it alongside the claim I've made, plus show the bills so it's clear I don't charge parent towards funded hours.

**ninagee** · 23-01-2014, 08:23 PM

Apparently they check that children are attending the setting for their allocated hours. We also have to record absences and the reason why.

As well as making sure that parents are not charged anything for the 'free' hours.

That's how detailed their audits are!

Nina :-)

**Zoomie** · 23-01-2014, 08:36 PM

I really don't understand this. So childminders / preschools and nurseries have no staffing costs. LA cannot insist that funding is spent on resources.

I understand LA wanting to audit to check parents aren't being charged for the free hours / a top up but insisting that it is spent on resources.

Would be interested to see where this has been written by your LA.

**teacakepenguin** · 23-01-2014, 09:36 PM

It took about a month to sort out, with xmas in the middle of it, it really wasn't any trouble at all. I had to create a fees policy and complete a big but fairly simple form.

I now have to phone county (Somerset) and they'll come out to explain how it all works etc.

I'm getting £4.59 per hour, which I'm really pleased about as I normally charge £3.50 an hour!

There was no mention of any audits or anything, and I know from preschool (I used to be chair) that they never had an audit, I'll ask about that though. It's just the council paying us, rather than the parents.

When I have my first grading, if I get a Good or Outstanding then I will get 2 year old funding too, but hopefully that's later rather than sooner!

Jx

**ninagee** · 23-01-2014, 09:44 PM

I have emailed the NEF team and also telephoned to get a definitive answer. All I was told that it had to be spent on the 'education' of the child as it is restricted funding.

They would not give me any more details but I am still determined to get something in writing from the LA!

Simona · 23-01-2014, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by ninagee

I have emailed the NEF team and also telephoned to get a definitive answer. All I was told that it had to be spent on the 'education' of the child as it is restricted funding.

They would not give me any more details but I am still determined to get something in writing from the LA!

The free entitlement is 'childcare and education' combined...so food, Stay and Play, resources for activities, travelling to places are all part of it!