Advice please.
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  1. #1
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    Default Advice please.

    Hi all, hope you all had a wonderful Christmas. I was wondering if I could ask for some advice. I'm newly registered in fact I'm still waiting for my certificate. I have had an enquiry from a lady who is a supply teacher and looking for someone to look after her two children one is 2 1/2 and the other is 10 months now she doesn't need me to start to care for her children until February. The thing is she wants me to do two full days a week which would be every week but she also wants me to be available for any spur of the moment care, for example she might be needed at a different school and not know until the night before. I have explained to her that I cant look after any children until my certificate is in hand and she is fine with that. What I'm trying to say is providing my certificate comes through in time would it be a good idea to take this vacancy or not as I will be restricting myself as I will not know which extra days she requires. I do not have any other offers of work as I didn't plan to take any children until I had my certificate.Sorry for the long message but It would be good to get some advice from people who are experienced. Thank you Sarah x

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    So in effect she is asking you for 2 x full-time Early Years places but she can only guarantee you work for 2 out of the 5 days per week? Don't forget that you will be limited to only 3 x EY's places so if you don't have any EY's children of your own that will only leave you with 1 space. You could explain that in order for you to keep 2 EY spaces available on a FT basis she will need to pay a retainer for the other 3 days per week eg 50% but only you know how keen she may or may not be to do that. Also how much do you need the income? You will be losing out on a lot of money keeping all 5 days open for her. I am now in the position of having all 4 of my EY's children as shift workers. They are contracted to a minimum number of hours per month but when I sit and work out how much I am in effect losing it breaks my heart. Be very careful is my advice. I'm not sure I would be so accommodating if I were starting over.

    xxxx

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    I assume at the moment you have the two places she needs, any day of the week. In your position, I think I would say I was available for ad hoc work, in other words as and when needed. But I would also make it clear that there was no long term commitment on my part to be available. I accept ad hoc bookings on a pay=as-you=go basis, but am not committed beyond the period they have booked and paid, so if someone else came along who wanted to enter into a regular hours contract, I would be free to take them on as soon as I had worked any hours booked and paid for by the first people.

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    I would say that book the 2 days and negotiate on the extra days! Say that you can do the 2 days but the extra days only if you have space available - so you can book out to other children and not keep the space for her - that is a risk she has to take unless she wants to pay for those days. If she has regular supply days then she may be willing to pay - if they are only occasional she probably won't!

    If you have filled those spaces and she just wants an extra day once a month then I would think it would be reasonable to do it as continuity of care depending on all the other circumstances.

    Also have you discussed if this parent will want term time only care? Losing 13 weeks a year income is a big hit on your income

    It is really tricky - you want to accommodate parents and be flexible, for yourself you are willing to be flexible because you want to fill your spaces but you also need to make money in the long term.

    I took on flexible parents and gave them the speel about willing to do and see how it goes but I wasn't really firm enough and it just went on and on for over a year where as really if I had said review in 6 months it would have been fairer to them and me to re-look and go back and say not working for me as in the end it didn't really work for me but I left it so long it was too late to change.

    What I'm saying is if you want to give it a go and be flexible then explain your situation -maybe do the 2 days on a permanant contract but do the extra days on a short term - say 3 month contract that has a definite date to review.

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    You need to think really hard if this is what you want to do, sometimes if feels any work is better than no work but what happens if you get enquiries for two full timers or several part timers how will you feel about loosing out on Income then?
    Work out how much annual income you will gain from this contract, minus expenses is it enough money?
    I know childminders who prefer not to be full and this type of contract would suit them fine.

    Is this term time only or all year round? If mum works term time only what are your intended charges for the school holiday periods?

    It sounds like it is two days, same days every week.

    Mum has asked for other days as and when needed. Are you going to keep these places open just in case with no guaranteed income?
    Are you going to offer a ad hoc booking form, so once booked and paid for the place is kept available for this family but if not booked and paid for you are free to book someone else in and if some one wants to book a regular slot for these days you are free to take them on As not contracted to provide regular,care for this family.
    Make sure you write this in bold on the contract and on the booking form if you go for the ad hoc arrangement for extra days.

    Remember this is a business you are running not making friends and doing them a favour. Keep things clear so all concerned know what is available or not.

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    If I were you I would first find out if it is term time only and decide what you want to do about school holidays. I find I can easily fill my holidays with school holiday only contracts. I would give parent the option of either paying for the two days a week and just take the chance on any extra days or give option of paying 50% retainer for the other three days and see what she says.

    Deb
    Children are born with wings we help them to fly.

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    Ok if this was me I would say I could do the two days a week but the additional days I would do on an ad hoc basis if I had space but as its two children she has I would unlikely have the space as ad hoc in the future and the only way she could secure those would be to pay for additional whether used or not. As she is a supply teacher I would imagine it will be term time only - I personally charge a slightly higher hourly rate and don't charge retainers. I would think very carefully about this contract and not rush into it as if you commit 2 of your EY places to her 5 days a week but she only normally uses 2 tto you will lose out alot financially. Whilst I personally like to be flexible and accommodate tto and shift workers without over charging them and sometimes like having quieter days it does have to balanaced out with me financially making what I am happy with. Don't under sell yourself in the rush for work and then end up regretting it every day you are losing money, it can end up leaving a bitter taste if you are it careful just make sure you are really happy with what you agree to.

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    I was in the same position as you, I said yes and only charged for the days that she used. I did loose out on another contract so I had to give her notice. I was very keen to take on work as it was my first enquiry. I wished I had listened to everyone else's advise. Good luck

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    I personally couldn't afford to have 10 spaces of my 15 under fives spaces (think days rather than children) tied up and only be paid for four. and then possibly for only for 38 weeks of the year. (I've done it before for one child and that was hard enough financially)

    Putting this into context you will only have one full time space left to get a regular year round income.

    Unless you are doing this for a little extra pocket money (which you may well be so this could be irrelevant) then it's not really viable as a business arrangement.

    However if you feel that some income is better than none at all read the excellent advice below and make choices that suit you. Good luck

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  14. #10
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    i think I would probably take them and provide adhoc care AT THE MOMENT but i would explain that if a fulltime child came along then you would take them on, then you may not be able to provide the adhoc care.It's her choice then.

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    Thank you all for your help and advice, its much appreciated x

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebell View Post
    I would say that book the 2 days and negotiate on the extra days! Say that you can do the 2 days but the extra days only if you have space available - so you can book out to other children and not keep the space for her - that is a risk she has to take unless she wants to pay for those days. If she has regular supply days then she may be willing to pay - if they are only occasional she probably won't!

    If you have filled those spaces and she just wants an extra day once a month then I would think it would be reasonable to do it as continuity of care depending on all the other circumstances.

    Also have you discussed if this parent will want term time only care? Losing 13 weeks a year income is a big hit on your income

    It is really tricky - you want to accommodate parents and be flexible, for yourself you are willing to be flexible because you want to fill your spaces but you also need to make money in the long term.

    I took on flexible parents and gave them the speel about willing to do and see how it goes but I wasn't really firm enough and it just went on and on for over a year where as really if I had said review in 6 months it would have been fairer to them and me to re-look and go back and say not working for me as in the end it didn't really work for me but I left it so long it was too late to change.

    What I'm saying is if you want to give it a go and be flexible then explain your situation -maybe do the 2 days on a permanant contract but do the extra days on a short term - say 3 month contract that has a definite date to review.


    Agree here

    PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!! When you're new it's so easy to shoot yourself in the foot. Make sure if you do a contract make regular reviews and write clearly that the ad hoq days are due to availability! Don't tie yourself down to these days as I have done that and now have had lots of offers, I wish I had have been a lot more careful. Do a contract for the 2 definite days if this is what you want, bearing in mind it's tto and only two days a week and then do the other days only if you are available and up for it. It is a business so you have to take care of your own interests.

  17. #13
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    When i first started out i had a parent come to me but didnt no what days she wanted each week cos of her job. So she paid for 10 days a month whether she used me or not (and there was a couple of months she didnt use me) but it meant a regular income for me. I just had b4 and aftr schoolies tto at the time so it worked well. Eventually the days became the same every week. I think it was a case of getting back into work for her. Every situation is different and its what works for you as well. That mindee is at school now but i have the sibling. Ive been minding 4 years and only just got my first full timer!!

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    As I see it, you have a potential 780 'spaces' a year (ie three a day, five days per week, 52 weeks a year). The children will take up two full time spaces if you agree to guarantee to be available for care as and when mum needs it, so 520 spaces per year used. If she only ever calls on you for the two days, term time only, and assuming that you can't fill the two spaces in the holidays, you will be paid for 156 spaces per year. 156 spaces is only 30% of the total 520 available from those two slots. Even if you filled the remaining space with a full timer, you could find as a worst case scenario that you are only filling (and earning from) 53% of your spaces overall if mum uses no extra. Of course mum might use more, but she might not.

    You may find that acceptable if you prefer to be quiet. However, I would also consider that you will be messed about if you are going to have to be available for these children, if mum is going to let you know at the last minute when she wants extra days. This might cause problems with settling the children, with planning, and with your personal life - if you don't fill your third space then you wont technically be working or being paid on your days off, but will have to behave as if you are - no making plans with friends or hair appointments etc in case of a last minute phone call to have the children ad hoc. Personally though, if I were happy to only earn around 50% of my 'potential' income I would rather do it by working with a full house three days a week. At least you've got some routine and stability that way.

    I think the advice given is excellent so far, to offer the extra if and when you can but make no guarantees and make it very clear to mum what the expectations are on either side. Consider though how hard it will be when you come to fill the spaces used by the children ad hoc. It could cause a lot of guilt and ill will.

    Also remember, it feels very scary when you first start up and I spent a lot of time worrying about not getting enquiries or not being able to fill my spaces. By two months in I had filled my spaces and within six months was picking and choosing what suited me, keeping a waiting list and filling spaces of children well in advance of their leaving. It's surprising how it can take off.
    Apologies for the random full stops. Phone buttons too small, thumbs too big.

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  20. #15
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    I have always taken on people like this especially at the beginning and its always worked out quite well. I would say yes, you still have 2 other full time places to fill before the adhoc becomes a problem and to be honest when you are just starting its not a good idea to take too much on and be totally full, so I say yes but explain if it becomes a problem you may need to re-look at it, it may be that she takes a permanent contract and makes extra days permanent....I always keep my third place for ad-hocs or part timers, my latest ad-hoc one day a week person has just gone to a permanent day

 

 

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