Advice please?

**vikiwizz** · 20-12-2013, 09:23 AM

Hi all

I'm after a little advice if possible?

I only have one space for an under 5 due to having two of my own.

This space at the moment is split between two children one comes Tues, Thurs, Fri the other Mon and Weds afternoon 1-5

So my problem is 3 day a week child is leaving soon as mum is pregnant an gain and two afternoon a week handed notice in a couple of weeks ago. So I have gone out and found 1 full timer (7.30-6) to replace these to children, to start when they both finish, which is around the same time.

With so far? My problem is my 2 afternoon a week child mum has asked me to withdraw her notice as they were going to use grandparents and now they can't.

My question is can I keep my two afternoon a week child I top of my full timer? It would be a cross over of 4 hours twice a week I would still only have 6 under 8 as I only have 2 5-8 year old?
Is this continuity of care?

Thanks for reading all help is appreciated

Viki

**Daftbat** · 20-12-2013, 09:27 AM

Strictly speaking no you can't. In effect you would be increasing your numbers as a result of new business. Even if you cancel the notice given to you the numbers will increase due to your new full timer not the existing child. Continuity of care only works when and existing child increases hours not just carries on the same as before.

**The Juggler** · 20-12-2013, 10:45 AM

No you can't. sorry

**Mouse** · 20-12-2013, 11:53 AM

When was the new child due to start? Have they signed contracts & done any settling in sessions?

If they have, you could possibly argue a case for continuity of care. I had it happen once when Ofsted still granted the variations. I had a child supposed to be leaving as the family were moving away, so signed up a new family and started settling in sessions. The move fell through at the last minute and parents wanted the child to stay with me. I spoke to Ofsted about it & they agreed that as I had signed contracts and done settling in sessions, I could keep both children as continuity of care.

If you haven't signed contracts or done any settling in sessions I think you'd struggle to class it as continuity.

**vikiwizz** · 20-12-2013, 01:25 PM

Yes I have don't both there was literally only a week to left run on the notice

**Mouse** · 20-12-2013, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by vikiwizz

Yes I have don't both there was literally only a week to left run on the notice

At the end of the day the choice has to be yours.

If you can show that contracts were already in place (obviously the date they were signed will show that) and if you can show that the new child has already been coming to you (the dates & times in your register), then you could possibly argue the case for continuity of care.
You would have to be confident in yourself, carry out a full risk assessment, inform the parents that you will have 4 EYs children, show how you will manage 4 children, especially if you have t do school runs etc.

How old are all the children, including your own and when was the new child due to start properly?

**vikiwizz** · 20-12-2013, 02:13 PM

New child is 7 months due to start next week.

There is an over lap of 3 hours 2 times a week.

So will be 2x 4 year old a 1 year old and 7 month old.

**vikiwizz** · 20-12-2013, 02:14 PM

The 1 year old and one 4 year old are mine

**Mouse** · 20-12-2013, 02:47 PM

It's quite manageable at those ages.

From my own experience (having had it approved by Ofsted before) it is something I would do and I would be prepared to argue my case if it was questioned, but you have to be aware that if you do it and an Ofsted inspector didn't agree with your reasoning, then you could be in trouble.

Do you have a DO you could speak to?

**vikiwizz** · 20-12-2013, 03:04 PM

Yes I might talk to one of my early years team.

And yes the only reason I'm even entertaining the fact is they are manageable ages. Thank you.

Plus 2 afternoons a week child is term time only.

**Tealady** · 20-12-2013, 03:49 PM

I would say you can't have both but I would be telling the part-timer notice can't now be cancelled as you have since filled the space.

Sounds harsh but you do need to have your business head on. Easier said than done, I know.

**Tazmin68** · 20-12-2013, 05:13 PM

Hi
I have just had a similar thing in that I had a child leaving who attends Mondays and Wednesdays for funded 15 hours to start pre school nursery. I have sibling starting January 6 who is taking her place under 2 year funding. I have another ey child who comes all 5 days. For the last two weeks I have had another child settling in sessions who starts fully on the 13 jan. I had a call from the health visitor who has now asked me to carry on having both siblings for the spring term and that the older sibling will start the pre school after Easter. I mentioned this months ago to the social worker and explained that unless advised otherwise I would be advertising the place this all came about as mum is expecting again and due Jan and last Jan-mar when another older sibling was at pre school five mornings the SW complained about poor attendance of older school children as in bad weather mom did not want to do school journey 3 times a day and I could see it happening again. I am now in the position that on Mondays only from 9.30-2.30 I will have 4 children in the EY bracket. I have written out my RA taking this into account and this also explains the reasons on how this came about.

Deb

**AliceK** · 20-12-2013, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Tealady

I would say you can't have both but I would be telling the part-timer notice can't now be cancelled as you have since filled the space.

Sounds harsh but you do need to have your business head on. Easier said than done, I know.

I agree with this.
Parents need to realise that once they give notice we will usually fill that space very quickly. As they have not shown any loyalty to you I'm afraid I wouldn't be showing them any now. You give notice, I will fill your space, simple.

Sorry, sounds a bit harsh doesn't it

xxxx

**AdeleMarie88** · 20-12-2013, 05:31 PM

I'm not sure I would allow a parent to give notice and then change their mind, especially if you have had settling in and signed contracts with a new parent. They don't sound terribly reliable (although I know circumstances can change) are you sure this is the right thing for you?

**vikiwizz** · 21-12-2013, 12:42 PM

The part time child was going to grandparents instead if coming to me but Grandparents have said they don't think they can cope at the last minute!!

Her husband works shift and she had said to me that she can strip it down to the bare minum which would mean I only have to have him 4 times between now and July (as her sister is a teacher and will have him in holidays) she is really desperate

of these 4 times the cross over would be 3 hours, do you think it's worth doing? I could even on these 4 dates have my mil look after my own 4 year old so them I wouldn't be over anyway?
I just really feel for her and maybe I am too soft but I do want to try and help!!

**Mouse** · 21-12-2013, 01:06 PM

Your own 4 year old will count in your numbers whether or not your MIL is looking after him. Would it be worth registering her as your assistant?

At the end of the day it is only you who can decide whether or not it's worth doing. Just be aware that often parents are 'desperate', we bend over backwards to accommodate them, then they turn round and say they don't need you after all. If it's only to cover 4 days between now and July, what's to say the grandparents won't turn round and say they can manage that after all?

**munch149** · 21-12-2013, 01:12 PM

[QUOTE="Mouse;1329038"]Your own 4 year old will count in your numbers whether or not your MIL is looking after him. Would it be worth registering her as your assistant?

Think this rule is stupid. Only reason child would come back is accident to adult or child or sickness and then you would be closing anyway so don't get why it's an issue

**vikiwizz** · 21-12-2013, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mouse

Your own 4 year old will count in your numbers whether or not your MIL is looking after him. Would it be worth registering her as your assistant? At the end of the day it is only you who can decide whether or not it's worth doing. Just be aware that often parents are 'desperate', we bend over backwards to accommodate them, then they turn round and say they don't need you after all. If it's only to cover 4 days between now and July, what's to say the grandparents won't turn round and say they can manage that after all?

My mil is a childminder

**Mouse** · 21-12-2013, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by vikiwizz

My mil is a childminder

Sounds like a good solution then

**The Juggler** · 21-12-2013, 04:20 PM

[QUOTE=munch149;1329039]

Originally Posted by Mouse

Your own 4 year old will count in your numbers whether or not your MIL is looking after him. Would it be worth registering her as your assistant?

Think this rule is stupid. Only reason child would come back is accident to adult or child or sickness and then you would be closing anyway so don't get why it's an issue

what if MIL got sick or couldn't have the child. you wouldn 't want to close down just because of that