Bank holidays

[Snowwhite]

Hi. I never really know what exactly to charge for a bank holiday when i dont work them.Most but not all bank hols fall whilst i'm on annual leave, (Xmas, Easter) and i charge half fee for my time off, so should i charge half fee for the bank hols aswell and full fee for any that crop up on someones contracted day and its not my time off work?(such as May bank hols & end of Aug) Need to say that i always charge something for a bh even if i charge at full rate. Before now i have said to parents that i dont work a bank hol but would be prepared to at double the daily or hourly fee. That way i feel i have the right to charge a fee plus most parents get a bank hol off work and payed.Some parents have been fine with full fee and no service available,but others haven't been as ok with it in the past,so i don't really know where the balance is! Hope that all makes sense! Thanks

[charlottenash]

Doesn't help you but for me it's 'if I'm open, you pay, if I'm closed you don't pay'

With your situation it you have booked annual leave, charge your normal fees. If a bank holiday falls on another time when you are not on annual leave (I.e your working Friday before and on the Tuesday after) then I wouldn't charge because you're not open for business.

Does your contract have anything regarding bank holidays?

[dawn100]

Have you not specified this in your contracts? In mine ,MM; it has a section that you delete as appropriate and i have completed so it states I close for bank holidays and do not charge, I don't charge for any of my holidays.

[Snowwhite]

Yes my contract does say about bank holidays but its always been something i've not been too sure about what to say and charge.Thanks for your help

[unalindura77]

I do it like this, I am open but you have to give me two weeks notice if you want it. If you don't use it it's still full fee's if it's a contracted day and if you do it's double.

[Boo_Bear]

Im in the same boat I had a parent ask me yesterday why does she have to pay for bank holidays when I dont work. But she gets paid for bank holidays and doesnt work. I include it in my holidays so should I charge half fees like holidays or should it be full fee?
In my contract it states holidays are half fees and sickness half fees both sides. Due to being stung once before with fees and sickness and holidays.
So am I wrong charging full fees should it be half?
Thanks

[unalindura77]

Unless they are self employed or don't get paid for bank holidays I wouldn't charge less than full fees...

If you were to charge half if they don't come what would you charge if they do go?

It's really hard trying to cover yourself from every angle sometimes isn't it...

[Boo_Bear]

Its very hard to please everyone. I have said I will review the contracts in april and see what we can do.
But I dont work bank holidays and wont work them at all. My husband doesnt work them so we have a family day. So maybe I am mean charging full fee.
I know she is concerned about money but I do so much running around for this family as she is a single mum and I try my hardest to help them. Ive even done things at a reduced rate even came off maternity leave early for her.
Its so hard to keep professional relationship when the kids are with me most of the time.
Oh well will have to work it out with her after Christmas too much to sort before.

[Snowwhite]

i'm not the only one in a bit of a pickle then about what to charge! it's good to hear other opinions about what they do.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I include all bank holidays in my yearly fees and divide by 12 - no questions asked and I get paid for them all. I am willing to work at triple time though if needed

[Simona]

No service no pay??
well that would be good for the parents but they do get paid for Bank Holidays...no parent will have Christmas Day or Boxing Day deducted from their pay even though they are not actually working for their employer

It is hard to decide but our bills and childminding expenses do not stop on Bank Holidays...or should we ask Ofsted not to charge us a registration fee during the 8 Bank Holidays...or ask for a household and car insurance discount??

[Mrs Scrubbit]

If I'm open then fees are charged, if closed I don't. Never charge for bank hols as I won't work them and no fees for my hols either ,xx

[dawn100]

Not everyone gets paid for bank holidays, some people only get paid for the shifts they work, when I worked in a bar if I didn't work a bank holiday I didn't get paid as I wasn't contracted to set days, I could request certain days but they weren't obliged to give me the days I requested, builders, hairdressers, some shop works dont get paid for bank holidays. We are all self employed so can choose what we charge. I operate if I'm open I charge full fees if I'm closed no fee. I don't think if a parent is being paid or not should have any impact on what I charge, I set my fees that I feel are fair and that I am happy with.

[Simona]

Not everyone gets paid for bank holidays, some people only get paid for the shifts they work, when I worked in a bar if I didn't work a bank holiday I didn't get paid as I wasn't contracted to set days, I could request certain days but they weren't obliged to give me the days I requested, builders, hairdressers, some shop works dont get paid for bank holidays. We are all self employed so can choose what we charge. I operate if I'm open I charge full fees if I'm closed no fee. I don't think if a parent is being paid or not should have any impact on what I charge, I set my fees that I feel are fair and that I am happy with.

I agree with what you are saying...we are free to charge or not as we like and I did comment 'no service no pay'??
The question mark leaves it open to cms to decide

My comment was referring to the fact that as a business our expenses do not stop on BH
We are very low paid as providers and I am getting a bit fed up with this govt who think that only parents are 'hard working' and that the cost of living' only affects parents not providers!

Most parents are entitled to a minimum wage...some even the living wage while we get a pitiful amount for their children's education...half of which we subsidise.

my view of course!

[jackie 7]

Nurseries charge all year. Parents don't complain. I charge half for b h and my hols.

[dawn100]

I agree with what you are saying...we are free to charge or not as we like and I did comment 'no service no pay'??
The question mark leaves it open to cms to decide

My comment was referring to the fact that as a business our expenses do not stop on BH
We are very low paid as providers and I am getting a bit fed up with this govt who think that only parents are 'hard working' and that the cost of living' only affects parents not providers!

Most parents are entitled to a minimum wage...some even the living wage while we get a pitiful amount for their children's education...half of which we subsidise.

my view of course!

I agree for the work we do it is not reflected in what we earn, I too am fed up with being made to feel guilty by gov about extortionate childcare costs. But my point was we shouldn't decide what we do or don't charge on what parents are or aren't paid, one of my parents earns double than the other do I change my fees to reflect this - no I don't. I think cm should set their fees with what they think are fair and happy with and if cm feel that to make a fair wage to cover their expenses that exist even on bank holidays that they should charge for BH then that is what they should do. I just don't like the arguement well parents are being paid so why shouldn't I, with that arguement do you only charge those parents who are getting paid BH's?
I don't want anyone to think cm shouldn't charge for their holidays or their bank holidays if that's what they want to do, but I just think the decision should be based on a business judgement not just because well parents are being paid why shouldn't I. That is just my opinion.

[Simona]

I agree for the work we do it is not reflected in what we earn, I too am fed up with being made to feel guilty by gov about extortionate childcare costs. But my point was we shouldn't decide what we do or don't charge on what parents are or aren't paid, one of my parents earns double than the other do I change my fees to reflect this - no I don't. I think cm should set their fees with what they think are fair and happy with and if cm feel that to make a fair wage to cover their expenses that exist even on bank holidays that they should charge for BH then that is what they should do. I just don't like the arguement well parents are being paid so why shouldn't I, with that arguement do you only charge those parents who are getting paid BH's?
I don't want anyone to think cm shouldn't charge for their holidays or their bank holidays if that's what they want to do, but I just think the decision should be based on a business judgement not just because well parents are being paid why shouldn't I. That is just my opinion.

Once again I do agree with you but I want to repeat this...I was not arguing 'well the parents are paid why shouldn't I'...far from it apologies if it came across like that.

I was asking to reflect on making a business judgement, just as you said in your last sentence, and that was an invitation to reflect that although we may be closed our expenses and input do not stop, what we do in the end is for the 'sustainability' of our small business.

One final thought... childcare may have gone up over the years and especially under this govt but parents do have many ways of being helped by the govt: C/vouchers, benefits and other means...what do we have but the prospect of a possible hike in our registration fee, training costs to be met, food and utilities prices going up...are the supermarkets worried that families are struggling when they put thei food prices up?

[bunyip]

My own approach is to charge normal fees if I work bank holidays and no fee if I don't. That said, I'm not about to begin preaching as to what other CMs should do. Sadly, my DO and her mafia-style local CM cartel think otherwise, and have "warned" me that I "must" charge for not working and double if I do work. I told her that she and her little band of acolytes can do what they like and go swivel because, whatever they happen to be, I'm self-employed.

Although my fee negotiations usually include some consideration of parents' circumstances, I have to agree there's little point in trying to figure out what they do or don't get out of bank holidays. They might be employed, self-employed or unemployed, so the same logic can't be applied consistently. Most of my employed jobs have involved working bank holidays, but they didn't carry any sort of bonus payment: one merely hoped that was factored into the overall wage. We frequently argue the case for bank holiday charging based on what our clients get from their employers (assuming they are employed). But we seldom look at it in terms of our own status - ie. self-employed - and rarely follow what other self-employed people do (ie. cost our holidays into an averaged-out fee for when we are working.)

My overall fee is sometimes higher than local CM comparatives, and I point out to clients this reflects (amongst other things) my willingness to work any bank holiday at my normal fee. I believe this is simple and transparent.

But I wouldn't lecture any CM on what to do in this regard, nor criticise one who does differently to me.

The only observation I'd make is that the one thing I've found that is highly likely to p155 parents of fmost is being charged when their child attends and/or being charged more for 'extras'. Bank holidays are a potential conflict waiting to happen if CMs present them as this form of 'double whammy'. One of the reasons why the "high cost of childcare" argument persists is that a lot of CMs advertise seemingly attractive "low" headline rates, then slap on all the 'extras' leaving parents feeling stung.

[dawn100]

Once again I do agree with you but I want to repeat this...I was not arguing 'well the parents are paid why shouldn't I'...far from it apologies if it came across like that.

I was asking to reflect on making a business judgement, just as you said in your last sentence, and that was an invitation to reflect that although we may be closed our expenses and input do not stop, what we do in the end is for the 'sustainability' of our small business.

One final thought... childcare may have gone up over the years and especially under this govt but parents do have many ways of being helped by the govt: C/vouchers, benefits and other means...what do we have but the prospect of a possible hike in our registration fee, training costs to be met, food and utilities prices going up...are the supermarkets worried that families are struggling when they put thei food prices up?

I probably read into your post wrong. I have had grief from some local cm's because I do an all inclusive fee, so if I'm open I charge if I'm closed I don't, I don't add extras for trips food or anything, I chose to do this just for simplicity but some of us cm's who have adopted this approach are almost being bullied by some others want us to charge the same way as them as some parents have questioned why they charge for bh when others don't. The argument they use for charging bh is well parents are being paid so why shouldn't I, I just think when you use that arguement you don't look very professional. Because I charge an all inclusive rate it is a slightly higher rate than others in my area, some parents have questioned why I charge more than others and I point out we are all free to charge what we feel is fit to offer the service we provide just the same as different builders and hairdresser have different fees.

[Simona]

Dawn 100... we can see there are many variations on what cms decide to do and I totally agree with you that it is your business and no one else's what we decide to do
The last thing we need is other cms telling us we should copy them

I got out of the BH issue when I decided a long time ago not to work any Monday or Fridays...I am so relieved not to have to argue that point any more
This year 25 and 26 Dec fall on Wed and Thu so I would safely assume most cms deal with them under their holiday agreement...whatever that maybe: half pay, full pay or none at all.