Unannounced OFSTED call at 7am

[Simona]

That is my worry as well...

It appears that it is up to the inspector - some will come back and some won't.

However, if it's a compliance visit and that turns into a full inspection then you have no choice...

Very interesting Sarah....am I right in assuming that an inspector would have checked the provider's details? It is not compulsory to work 5 days a week as a CM and those details are usually in the SEF for those who submit it to Ofsted.

If we say that it is 'up to the inspector' then what is the point of Ofsted having published so much guidance if the decision rests with the individual inspector we could have hundreds of interpretations?

Surely this is a point that needs clarification...for instance pre schools are usually term time only...would an inspector turn up during the holiday when the setting is likely to be closed?
CMs may have a second job and it has been said here inspectors have a right of entry during 'working hours'...a day off work is not a working day in my view?

While we accept that they have to carry out inspection following a complaint I fail to understand why Ofsted would want to add anxiety to an already stressful situation?

Maybe this is a point to raise at #OBC?

[charlottenash]

I have a sign on my door, saying I don't open to unannounced visitors. I'm not joking either!

[charlottenash]

What do they do if you don't open the door? Or you're not here everyday?

It winds me up, some CMs in our area make sure they're never home because they are scared!! Imagine! A home from home child are service who is never home because they are scared of ofsted.

It's almost like working in an office , but thinking that every moment of the day your boss could walk in and demand to know what every bit of paperwork is etc.

[lilac_dragon]

Ofsted are our regulator and can inspect us when we are open for business.

If you say that you are open between the hours of 7 am and 6 pm then they can turn up to inspect you at any time during those hours.

If you refuse them entry they can ask the police to back them up - and the police have wide ranging powers of entry.

You can delay them by saying you want to ring the office and check they are who they say they are - that is your right - but you cannot refuse entry in working hours.

they have a right to check you are working within numbers - to speak to parents as they arrive - to check your home is safe and ready to receive children etc.

There are 2 sides to every story and I'm not sure we are hearing the whole thing on the FB page - but that is the member's prerogative.

Ho hum things are going from bad to worse and panic is spreading

Would my home be ready for children to arrive at 7am, which is my official start of business? - Only if I had a child booked in for that time! It's my advertised business start time but today my earliest arrival was 8am as the parent was on a course so didn't need to drop early. So, at 7am I was just rolling into the shower, and after that I ran the vacuum round, washed the kitchen floor and cleaned the toilet. These things would not have been done by 7am if Mrs O had knocked on the door. I don't do them at night as I go to bed earlier than the rest of the family so pointless cleaning something that is still in use.
If it was an unannounced visit at that time and I had los there, I would have been feeding them their breakfast and been concentrating on them not her, and my paperwork, other than immediate use stuff like lj's and register would have been in the locked filing cabinet upstairs. We had a thread recently about leaving los when they're eating, so I would have had to take their food away while I went up to get it. I have the tiniest Hall in UK in my opinion and the last time I had an early morning visit Mrs O had to greet each parent with me and then step outside into the driveway to talk to them as there was no room to stand and chat with los and their bags, coats, shoes etc. If the visit was unannounced I don't think my parents would have been able to chat as they would have been late for work, at least if they know an inspector is coming they can come a little early, AND fill in the questionnaires to give their opinion of our services, which of course is not the case if the visit is unannounced.
And YES I do think this all to stress us out!

[kellyskidz!]

God what an awful situation for the minder to be in! I'd be half asleep at 7am some days and wouldn't be able to function without a cuppa first, OFSTED or not!
So, if OFSTED did an unannounced visit at 7am and we thought it was a bit dodgy, and we said can I call the OFSTED no. to clarify this, and lines don't open til 9am, what happens? Does the inspector leave until 9, or do we have to let them in anyway? Even if there are no children in at that time? I agree we should all be prepared for spot checks at all times (except when we have the glitter out lol!) but I've never even thought OFSTED could or would call at someone's house so early to inspect, 8am maybe but 7am?! Could it go the other way and have 8pm spot checks? Also if you provide overnight care, are they going to show up at 1am - ok that last one was a little far lol!

[Ripeberry]

I shouldn't really go on FB. As with this thread about Ofsted turning up at all hours. That they can come whenever they like just for a normal inspection. Then another FB thread about a poor lady asking if she has to tell Ofsted that her husband has died and everyone says that she should, even if it's by e-mail. But we are not sure if he was working with her as a CM. But the crux of it is that as CMs we seem to have no privacy. Relative has died? Or better tell us so we can keep an eye on you just in case you 'crack up'. How dare you even try and be a human being.
I'm really starting to hate this job now. Not because of the kids or even the parents, but because of the fact that my basic human rights are being eroded by Ofsted. I should have the right to keep certain things from them and have the right to feel safe in my own home.
It's not worth it for the money I get!

[Ripeberry]

What do they do if you don't open the door? Or you're not here everyday?

It winds me up, some CMs in our area make sure they're never home because they are scared!! Imagine! A home from home child are service who is never home because they are scared of ofsted.

It's almost like working in an office , but thinking that every moment of the day your boss could walk in and demand to know what every bit of paperwork is etc.

I worked for 14 years in an office and it was NEVER as stressful as this. Imagine your boss coming to your house. That just makes it even worse as your home has to be PERFECT AT ALL TIMES! Ooh! I just saw a flying pig go past my window!

[bunyip]

Maybe all that inspector's reports should include a footnote to the effect that, "this document was compiled by some gimp who doesn't know what time it is."

[rickysmiths]

I don't think from what I have read and I haven't seen the FB group post, but I get the impression that we haven't been told the whole story. How many of us know anyone who has had Ofsted knock on the door at 7am (ok benefit of the doubt 8am)?

If this inspector was checking the cm for being over numbers on school children then that is prob a good time for them to visit isn't it? I don't see the problem really. I know a lot of cm and I have never known one have a visit at 8am, not even the two who have has visits due to Safeguarding Complaints being made so I suspect Ofsted had good reason to knock on this cms door at the time they did.

It seems everyone is panicking more than a bit. Nothing has suddenly changed Ofsted have always have right of entry to our homes if there is a concern about the Welfare of the children in our care or to carry out an Inspection and it has been that way for 13 years!. The only change is there are more unannounced Complaint driven Inspections

[Mouse]

I don't think from what I have read and I haven't seen the FB group post, but I get the impression that we haven't been told the whole story. How many of us know anyone who has had Ofsted knock on the door at 7am (ok benefit of the doubt 8am)?

If this inspector was checking the cm for being over numbers on school children then that is prob a good time for them to visit isn't it? I don't see the problem really. I know a lot of cm and I have never known one have a visit at 8am, not even the two who have has visits due to Safeguarding Complaints being made so I suspect Ofsted had good reason to knock on this cms door at the time they did.

It seems everyone is panicking more than a bit. Nothing has suddenly changed Ofsted have always have right of entry to our homes if there is a concern about the Welfare of the children in our care or to carry out an Inspection and it has been that way for 13 years!. The only change is there are more unannounced Complaint driven Inspections

I disagree with your last comment. The biggest change is the increasing number of unannounced routine inspections. That's what's causing concern. Also reports that inspectors are turning up to do unannounced inspections (not complaint driven) without having checked whether or not a cm is working. For all my other inspections I have had a call in advance asking if I am still childminding and which days I work. Inspectors are now turning up without having asked that. My concern is that if they turn up on a day when I'm not working and demand to carry out a routine inspection, I would have no hope of maintaining my Outstanding grade, even though everything else is in order. That hardly seems fair.

[Chatterbox Childcare]

I disagree with your last comment. The biggest change is the increasing number of unannounced routine inspections. That's what's causing concern. Also reports that inspectors are turning up to do unannounced inspections (not complaint driven) without having checked whether or not a cm is working. For all my other inspections I have had a call in advance asking if I am still childminding and which days I work. Inspectors are now turning up without having asked that. My concern is that if they turn up on a day when I'm not working and demand to carry out a routine inspection, I would have no hope of maintaining my Outstanding grade, even though everything else is in order. That hardly seems fair.

If they rang before coming it would hardly be unannounced

I can see why everyone is getting agitated but I also feel that there is no smoke without fire. Where are all these inspectors coming from as they cannot keep up with reinspections. We all only see one side to every story and are very quick to judge ....

[Simona]

Inspectors can only arrive 'unannounced' for a complaint driven inspection
For cycle inspection they must follow the guidance by Ofsted itself (p 5) by calling the cm a few days later and confirm she is still working

Ofsted | Conducting early years inspections

Little or no notice of inspection
7. Group providers normally receive no notice of the inspection. Childminders or group providers that do not operate regularly, such as summer play schemes, will usually receive a call no more than five days before the inspection to check which days they are operating and whether there are children on roll and present. The inspector must not specify the date of the inspection but may indicate the time by which the inspection will start. This will allow the childminder to leave the house if the inspector has not arrived by that time. If there are no children on roll or present, the inspection will be rescheduled unless there are good reasons why it must go ahead; for example, because it is close to the end of the inspection cycle.
8. Ofsted will normally carry out inspections without notice where inspections are prioritised or brought forward because of concerns. Having no children on roll or present on the day is unlikely to lead to these inspections being deferred.

If this does not happen the cm has a right to ring Ofsted and report it...unless we get confident enough to do so this will carry on unchallenged and we will continue to be worried it will happen to us...if cms do not want to report it to Ofsted then they can call their representing association to report it.

A guidance means we, both sides, understand the rules...it's a 2 way system that leads to respect and professional conduct from either party!

[Mouse]

If they rang before coming it would hardly be unannounced

I can see why everyone is getting agitated but I also feel that there is no smoke without fire. Where are all these inspectors coming from as they cannot keep up with reinspections. We all only see one side to every story and are very quick to judge ....

But routine inspections aren't supposed to be unannounced. I agree that if it's a complaint driven inspection they should call unannounced, but not if it's a routine inspection. I also don't agree with childminders being given too much notice. A phone call a day or 2 before should be sufficient to check the childminder is working, but not give them long enough to change anything much.

One local cm was given 2 months notice of her routine inspection. She had so long to prepare that she looked wonderful on the day (she'd even practiced the activities with the children so she knew it would work.) She hadn't done half the things before her inspection & hasn't done them since. Another cm had a complaint made against her and the inspector phoned to say she wanted to come the next day. The cm said she was busy, so the inspector said she'd call the following week. The cm spent the weekend updating all her paperwork (driving to parent's houses to get them to complete permission forms etc). Both of those are wrong, in my opinion and show how worthless some inspections actually are.

[Mouse]

Inspectors can only arrive 'unannounced' for a complaint driven inspection
For cycle inspection they must follow the guidance by Ofsted itself (p 5) by calling the cm a few days later and confirm she is still working

Ofsted | Conducting early years inspections

Little or no notice of inspection
7. Group providers normally receive no notice of the inspection. Childminders or group providers that do not operate regularly, such as summer play schemes, will usually receive a call no more than five days before the inspection to check which days they are operating and whether there are children on roll and present. The inspector must not specify the date of the inspection but may indicate the time by which the inspection will start. This will allow the childminder to leave the house if the inspector has not arrived by that time. If there are no children on roll or present, the inspection will be rescheduled unless there are good reasons why it must go ahead; for example, because it is close to the end of the inspection cycle.
8. Ofsted will normally carry out inspections without notice where inspections are prioritised or brought forward because of concerns. Having no children on roll or present on the day is unlikely to lead to these inspections being deferred.

If this does not happen the cm has a right to ring Ofsted and report it...unless we get confident enough to do so this will carry on unchallenged and we will continue to be worried it will happen to us...if cms do not want to report it to Ofsted then they can call their representing association to report it.

A guidance means we, both sides, understand the rules...it's a 2 way system that leads to respect and professional conduct from either party!

I guess "usually" is the key word.

I think part of the problem is that childminders are reporting having unannounced routine inspections, but Ofsted are denying it's happening. Even our DO said it didn't happen although one of the cms at our meeting had had it happen to them. The DO said there must have been a reason. The cm was adamant there wasn't & the inspector didn't mention anything. So as well as having to endure unannounced inspections, cms are also being accused of lying about the reason behind it! I do agree that there are many cases of childminders crying that their inspection was unfair, when in fact there is much more to it, but it does seem as if "no smoke without fire" is being applied to them all

[FussyElmo]

I guess "usually" is the key word.

I think part of the problem is that childminders are reporting having unannounced routine inspections, but Ofsted are denying it's happening. Even our DO said it didn't happen although one of the cms at our meeting had had it happen to them. The DO said there must have been a reason. The cm was adamant there wasn't & the inspector didn't mention anything. So as well as having to endure unannounced inspections, cms are also being accused of lying about the reason behind it! I do agree that there are many cases of childminders crying that their inspection was unfair, when in fact there is much more to it, but it does seem as if "no smoke without fire" is being applied to them all

I agree with you with the word usually. Is doesn't say you WILL receive. I read lots of cms that say they are ignoring their phones incase of them ringing is that the reason they are just turning or is it the inspectors just working her way through her list.

Ofsted keep saying they are not happening but yet I keep reading of cms saying they have had an unannounced inspection.

How will we ever know the truth

[TooEarlyForGin?]

I shouldn't really go on FB. As with this thread about Ofsted turning up at all hours. That they can come whenever they like just for a normal inspection. Then another FB thread about a poor lady asking if she has to tell Ofsted that her husband has died and everyone says that she should, even if it's by e-mail. But we are not sure if he was working with her as a CM. But the crux of it is that as CMs we seem to have no privacy. Relative has died? Or better tell us so we can keep an eye on you just in case you 'crack up'. How dare you even try and be a human being. I'm really starting to hate this job now. Not because of the kids or even the parents, but because of the fact that my basic human rights are being eroded by Ofsted. I should have the right to keep certain things from them and have the right to feel safe in my own home. It's not worth it for the money I get!

I feel this way too Ripeberry. Although it has been good that we are classed as "professionals" and work to a high standard, I have always felt childminders should have their own set of standards. Yes, there should be statutory requirements, but we offer an entirely unique form of care. Many of us start early, but, are still sorting out our own families. Although I have toys out, there are no "planned" activities until around 9am, as I have multiple children arriving at different times, some have breakfast some don't, I put children on 2 different buses and will have a quick tidy before I start my activities with the ones that remain. Parents are all aware of this and happy as their children are in the home environment that they want. The government bang on about flexible childcare, which is what we are good at, but it is different to how a nursery would work. The more we try to take on the more is expected of us by OFSTED and the worst situation gets. I think I needs to be a strong reminder that these are our homes and families.

Recently I had issues in getting a CRB check for my 16 year old daughter as she is adopted and we struggled with identification, as we took some time to gain identification, she was sent several letters telling her that she was not suitable to be on the premises, HER HOME, they made her feel as though she was a random stranger and this is really upset her. I complained to OFSTED and was just told these were standard letters and I told them that I was disgusted that they would treat my family in this way in their own home obviously it didn't get anywhere but it made me realise how they view us.

I agree we should always be ready for an inspection and should be ready at short notice, but it should also be noted we are sole workers, working without help, if we are sick there is no one to jump in our place no administrators, cleaners, cooks, drivers, support staff. So as long as the statutory stuff is in place, and they can tell overall planning is done regularly and children are attaining well, there should be leeway. I think childminders would be less worried about OFSTED calling at any time.

[hectors house]

I agree with you with the word usually. Is doesn't say you WILL receive. I read lots of cms that say they are ignoring their phones incase of them ringing is that the reason they are just turning or is it the inspectors just working her way through her list.

Ofsted keep saying they are not happening but yet I keep reading of cms saying they have had an unannounced inspection.

How will we ever know the truth

Oh dear that is me, not answering phone in case it's Ofsted (6 months overdue for inspection), I guess I had better make sure that I'm out of the house every morning too, but if they are turning up at 7 am, I will still be at the local swimming pool! (without mindees)

[vals]

I had an unnanounced complaint visit - it wasn't a full inspection though, and I was working and my own children were home which I was glad about as they spoke up about one issue and also helped play with the children. Initially he asked if it was ok to talk infront of the minded children - at that point he didn't know anyone else was in. Not sure what he expected - can't leave the children unattended. very odd. It was all ok depsite him not being at all nice which mad eme argumentative- I was definitely guilty unless I could prove otherwise.

But had he come when I wasn't working, would I really have to let him in?

My home changes when I am not working, its amazing how quickly it goes back to home not workplace. Especially with older children, we may have been not fully dressed, teenager may have even been naked, and the living room would have teenage related items everywhere, and paperwork wouldn't be out etc. Surely they aren't saying they are entitled to come in when we are closed.

[FussyElmo]

I had an unnanounced complaint visit - it wasn't a full inspection though, and I was working and my own children were home which I was glad about as they spoke up about one issue and also helped play with the children. Initially he asked if it was ok to talk infront of the minded children - at that point he didn't know anyone else was in. Not sure what he expected - can't leave the children unattended. very odd. It was all ok depsite him not being at all nice which mad eme argumentative- I was definitely guilty unless I could prove otherwise.

But had he come when I wasn't working, would I really have to let him in?

My home changes when I am not working, its amazing how quickly it goes back to home not workplace. Especially with older children, we may have been not fully dressed, teenager may have even been naked, and the living room would have teenage related items everywhere, and paperwork wouldn't be out etc. Surely they aren't saying they are entitled to come in when we are closed.

If its to investigate a compliant then yes I do believe we have to let them in

[Simona]

I guess "usually" is the key word.

I think part of the problem is that childminders are reporting having unannounced routine inspections, but Ofsted are denying it's happening. Even our DO said it didn't happen although one of the cms at our meeting had had it happen to them. The DO said there must have been a reason. The cm was adamant there wasn't & the inspector didn't mention anything. So as well as having to endure unannounced inspections, cms are also being accused of lying about the reason behind it! I do agree that there are many cases of childminders crying that their inspection was unfair, when in fact there is much more to it, but it does seem as if "no smoke without fire" is being applied to them all

I take your point Mouse...it's a word game!!!...one paragraph says 'usually' the next says 'normally' neither say 'will'..
I trust all cms in this forum have now got the message that we may get that knock on the door anytime...usually announced or 'normally' not !

All inspectors conduct their business on mobiles ...if we report the call was not made for a schedule inspection and gave the inspector's name, which we are entitled to get from him/her... Ofsted can trace the call?

Someone can email Ofsted if that has happened to them ...we need to put a stop to this and act or we will be going round in circles.

Incidentally I did email Ofsted Principle Officer a while back on this very matter and shared her comments in this forum...she said inspector do not carry out unannounced cycle inspections...if that happens to me I will show the inspector that email

I suggest we all email Ofsted and see what response we get...can't see any other way can anyone?