mouldy lunchbox?!

[jaykay79]

hi, bit of an awkward one here. mindees mum and dad appear to be perfectly normal clean people (been to their house and it was fine) but their son is not (2.5 yo) his ears are caked thick with browny orangey earwax (he can't hear properly sometimes because of it i am convinced), mum openly admitted to me she doesn't wash his hair (as he doesn't like it), when i change his first nappy of the day (before i've cleaned him up) the smell of unwashed stale urine from down there is unbearable! i can only assume he is not wiped between nappies at home. hands/nails always dirty/greasy and the final most gross thing of all is his lunchbox. it has mould growing all over it inside and out, at first i couldn't believe it but that was a week ago and now it is practically walking around the house! as soon as it comes in i double bag it up and it leaves my house that way too! he still has a bottle of milk in the afternoon and that is invariably a mouldy bottle too (that orange slimy mould on this item) from where the teat is clearly never removed between uses and the bottle itself just reeks. when the bottle comes in this state i won't use it obviously and send it home in the state it arrived in. my thing is this, how can i tell her to sort all this stuff out without offending her?! i mean there's so many issues do i just launch them all at her in one go?! also, she is my best earner and i'm frightened of offending her but the poor kid is so smelly and dirty it's just gross! he is always ill and i am not surprised! i don't think this is neglect as such as i know she loves him to bits and he is always very happy to see her but it doesn't sit right with me at all and sad as it is to say it, i don't enjoy physical contact with him at all anymore, in fact i avoid it!

[Koala]

errrr OMG what a dirty moo moo!

I think she needs a bit of a nudge, she really may not realize this is not acceptable, Do you think you could show by example? I think I would have to sanitize lunch box, bottle and kid all in one and send them home sparkling clean with a box of persil

[sing-low]

Oh ewww! That is just horrid. Poor little one. Actually, it is neglect. I'm not disputing that Mum doesn't love him to bits but that doesn't override the fact that she is not properly caring for her son and he is being put at risk because of this. I think you need to report this. Document it all and give Social Care a ring. Not a nice thing to have to do, I know, but I don't see that you have any choice, really.

[dawn100]

When I first started reading your post you mentioned the ear wax which my ds suffers with and I dread people thinking I don't care for him as I've been to the doctors and regularly has ear drops but still frequently has visible thick earwax. But then I went on to read the rest and that's really quiet concerning, I think you have to be brave and log your concerns and talk to mum as it does sound like its neglect or lack of understanding about hygiene and the impact it can have.

[Ali56]

This IS neglect, and you must act. Neglect is not just physical abuse and shouting/depriving of food etc. In the first place contact your development officer for some advice, and go from there. Have a proper talk with mum about what his needs are. Then if mum will not accept your advice and wash his things and him, then you must follow your safeguarding procedure. She is putting him in danger ( no wonder he is always ill) by not cleaning his bottle/lunchbox, or washing him, leaving him in stale urine etc. It may just be that she is struggling to cope and needs some support-this sort of neglect is not always deliberate, but depression in the mother is often there too (and the feeling of being unable to cope) There is clearly no doubt that she loves her son. But it can't carry on as it is. Not a nice situation for you to be in, but not for the poor little boy either.
I hope you can help the family get the help they need. xx

[jaykay79]

omg do you really think i should report her?! i like koalas idea of sending him and his things home sparkling clean (and have in fact been considering doing this for a while). another thing i forgot to mention, is that he has recurrent infected excema on his body, now i know anyone can get this but can it be exasperated by the whole unclean thing? x

[supermumy]

I would of just washed out the lunch box and bottle or maybe when 1st noticed said to mum oh I think he may need new bottle etc
Maybe she thinks you are using them as she is sending them in and as you haven't said anything it's acceptable x

[Ali56]

omg do you really think i should report her?! i like koalas idea of sending him and his things home sparkling clean (and have in fact been considering doing this for a while). another thing i forgot to mention, is that he has recurrent infected excema on his body, now i know anyone can get this but can it be exasperated by the whole unclean thing? x

It def can be made worse by being unclean. If you feel uncomfortable going straight to SS then definately speak to your dev officer urgently, who can advise you properly and support you to do what you need to do. You must log your concerns-it is a legal requirement to do so, and act on them if required. There isn't anyone else to be a childs voice if their carers won't. Take care and be brave xx

[Koala]

omg do you really think i should report her?! i like koalas idea of sending him and his things home sparkling clean (and have in fact been considering doing this for a while). another thing i forgot to mention, is that he has recurrent infected excema on his body, now i know anyone can get this but can it be exasperated by the whole unclean thing? x

I think you should not report her for now, If you did it could mean a lot of unintentional upset for everyone. It is not a crime to smell or be dirty unless you think this is HARMING the child or is it just affecting you (not that this is not a problem) because you have higher hygiene standards which is commendable.

Could you just put your arm around mum and say - look love I have washed the lunch box and bottle because is was dirty judge her reaction you may be able to take it further and address her dirty child! - ask - is everything alright at home? are you ok? is there anything I can help with?

You may open a can of worms! literally but it would make me feel better knowing that I have tried as a friend to help before calling in the big guns.

[hectors house]

I would start off with the lunch box and bottle as either of those things could actually make him seriously ill - I would say to her that you couldn't give him his milk in the bottle that she sent as it was filthy - ask her if she forgot to switch on the steam steriliser or however she sterilises his bottles and to check all the other ones (although I bet she doesn't use any kind of steriliser). Also why is a 2.5 year old child still having an afternoon bottle of milk - it is still normal to have a bed time bottle but not an afternoon one?

How long have you looked after this child? I too looked after a little boy who was emotionally abused and neglected but back 25+ years ago the only abuse they taught us about was sexual and physical. My little one was never hungry but was always grubby, there was so much dog hair on his velco shoes that they wouldn't fasten and he wore same socks all week, his mother referred to him as "it" - eg "how has it been today" - "sorry i'm late, it was slow eating his breakfast". You need to document it and tell her that you have to document it - it may make her realise that her slovenly ways are not acceptable.

If you think she has mental health issues like Post Natal Depression, then maybe suggest that she seeks advice from Health visitor or doctor - some mothers just aren't maternal - the little one that I looked after wasn't wanted but she did get better as a mother when he was older and more able to look after himself. Although she refused to give up her dogs and horses although both she and child were often admitted to hospital due to their asthma!

[dawn100]

I would log the concerns and speak to mum and see what her reaction is and if this has any impact on the cleanliness of the child, from there you need to decide if you're going to contact ss or give her time to take on board your concerns, but if you think this is harming the child you must report to ss. It's hard for any of us to know exactly how bad this is only you are there witnessing it, people do have different hygiene standards eg i wouldn't let my kids out of the house in dirty clothes but my friends theory is that they're going to get dirty anyway so why worry about the clothes being spotless, but its when its harmful to the child you must act

[jaykay79]

yes, telling her i couldn't use the bottle she sent as it was unclean may be a good way to kick off this chat (which by the way i am DREADING!!) and i've looked after him since he was 5 months old and he's never been very clean at all but it seems to be worse in recent times. he has been eating the same bloomin soup every day, day in day out for dinner since he came here (not sure why i've just thought of that) carrot and potato soup blended smooth every day for 2 years, is that normal?! well the pots she puts it in leak into his lunch box (which is a material one) and so hence the mould. i have no idea why he still drinks milk from a baby bottle, she tells me he wakes in the night for his "bock bock" also. this is mum's first child, maybe she literally hasn't a clue?! i don't think she has mental health issues, that i could detect anyway x

[Koala]

yes, telling her i couldn't use the bottle she sent as it was unclean may be a good way to kick off this chat (which by the way i am DREADING!!) and i've looked after him since he was 5 months old and he's never been very clean at all but it seems to be worse in recent times. he has been eating the same bloomin soup every day, day in day out for dinner since he came here (not sure why i've just thought of that) carrot and potato soup blended smooth every day for 2 years, is that normal?! well the pots she puts it in leak into his lunch box (which is a material one) and so hence the mould. i have no idea why he still drinks milk from a baby bottle, she tells me he wakes in the night for his "bock bock" also. this is mum's first child, maybe she literally hasn't a clue?! i don't think she has mental health issues, that i could detect anyway x

No, this is not normal, please tell me he eats other things!

[jaykay79]

other things for dinner? no always the same soup every day, but that's not all he gets a yoghurt and a slice of cake also, but that's it x

[jaykay79]

other things for dinner? no always the same soup every day, but that's not all he gets a yoghurt and a slice of cake also, but that's it x

oh and she says she wants me to give him fruit if she gives me a bit extra each week (which she very rarely does, £2 every 3 months or so usually when at first she said £2 a week)

[Ali56]

Aw, jaykay. Please call your cmdo. Just for some advice about how best to help them. I'm not saying she's being deliberately neglectful at all, just that it really sounds like she needs some support. No family who are coping well give their toddler the same food day in, day out. Amongst all the other stuff you've said. You already added from your original post that its gots worse recently and that he has the same pureed soup every day. When you have the chat about the bottle and the lunchbox, tell her the pot leaks and ask if she has a different one. Hand the lunch box and bottle back all lovely and clean ( I'd wash it everyday before I gave it back anyway) and see if it stays that way. There maybe other ways you can support, but just washing tose things is a help, at least to keep the bacteria levels down for the little man xx

[Koala]

Now I think there are a few things here that are a little concerning individually but could be rectified if they were individual, but I think you may need further support and your mum may too. But don't jump in both feet first with social services.
Have you done the 2 yr check on this child? and is he making all his targets?
The mucky kid individually would not concern me much (there are some mucky but happy/healthy families out there) - but I would have to clean him and his lunch box and bottle.
The food would concern me as I do not feel it is substantial - do you feel mum is having difficulty financially or educationally providing food? Carrott and potato soup is good and healthy particularly if home made but not as a main substantial meal for a toddler everyday, yogurt good, cake is nice.

The two issues together are warning signs.
Could you use the 2 year check to bring in outside agencies? with mums agreement maybe, health visitor, your Development officer or local childrens centre.
There could be more here than meets the eye and possibly too much for you to deal with, but only you can make that call.

What else can you tell us?

[hectors house]

Sounds as if she is trying to keep him as a baby - pureed soup and bottle of milk, "Bock, bock" and still in nappies. I would do as Koala suggests and use his 2 year development check as a way to suggest that he needs to be allowed to grow up and be a little more independent.

I used to have a mother who sent baby with a box of baby food (one you mix with water) and child ate same meal until box was empty (about a week), I thought that was abuse, but to eat the same meal for 2 years is definitely abuse - also if her hygience practice is so bad, how can you be sure that she doesn't just batch cook it once a week/fortnight or even a month and just dish it up out of the fridge each day for him! (is it even kept in the fridge)?

Would suggest that even a tin of beans and sausages once in a while would make a nice change, or if she varied the recipe for soup and didn't puree it - pureed foods means that child isn't learning to chew, strengthen jaw muscles that help child change mouth shape to pronounce words correctly.

[singingcactus]

Just tell mum the bottle and bag are mouldy and she needs to sort it tonight. It's really easy to do. You just have to say the words.
I've done it before when dad wasn't washing his child's sippy cup properly. He hadn't realised, thought it was just stained. From then on it came clean.

Earwax, dirty fingers, smelly when you remove a wet nappy, not exactly neglect, abuse or whatever else is being said, just wipe him clean!. Not washing hair cause he doesn't like it, not at all a big deal.

The only thing of any concern is the mould, and if mum is thinking it is stains, or just not even noticing it, then telling her will fix that.

If you're bothered by the little one having the same meal every day (which seems unlikel that you are cos you've only just realised) then tell her to try some new meals.

Parents are humans too. You are allowed to chat with them, this is why relationships with parents are so important, so that the little things don't all build up and skew the big picture.

Sorry if I sound cranky, but I really get annoyed whenever dirty fingernails and ears are classed as abuse and neglect on this forum.

[jaykay79]

koala, where i live there is no 2 year check (that i have to do) and no eyfs and all that paperwork etc that you all have to do in the uk, although we do have governing bodies within the government i can speak to if necessary. i don't think there's anything else to tell you with regard to this situation, what i've said is pretty much it i think. singing cactus, i haven't only just noticed he's been eating the same meal for the last 2 years! i meant i'd only just thought of it when talking about his situation on this thread, and i wasn't saying dirty fingernails/earwax/smelly body etc was neglect, i was just trying to paint an overall picture of the situation. so since i last posted, the lunchbox has been bleached and then sent through the washing machine, all his bottles/cups etc have been washed. she will no doubt notice when she takes his lunchbox out of his bag that is is soaking wet! but clean! you never know, that alone might shame her into keeping it clean! i am going to call the gov department tomorrow and ask them to they have any healthy lunchbox type leaflets i can have to hand out to all. my bathroom is in the middle of being replaced but when i have a bath again (sooooon please god, nightmare without it lol) i am going to launch him through the bath for a thorough wash and scrub and send him home smelling as sweet as a baby. if these hints are not enough then i am going to say something to her, no other choice then really, thanks for all your advice ladies x