Rules about twins?

**Mummits** · 08-10-2013, 01:18 PM

I was wondering if anyone knows about the rules on ratios where twins are involved. I have had a tentative enquiry about taking on twins next year when they will be 15 months, but unless somebody else moves on in the meantime that would mean I would have 4 under five (albeit only possibly for 20 or 30 minutes, twice a week). I'd be picking up my three year old from nursery, coming straight home and handing the twins back to their parents. Am I right in thinking that there is no longer any general relaxation of the rules to cover such overlaps? If so, would an exception apply for twins?

Sorry to ask another variations question !

**QualityCare** · 08-10-2013, 01:28 PM

I don't think you can take them on as they are new business and you only have 1 space available, had you already had an older sibling of theirs and were asked to take them on then you could have done it under continuity of care.

**FussyElmo** · 08-10-2013, 03:41 PM

No its new business so there is no continuity of care.

**Tazmin68** · 08-10-2013, 04:32 PM

Now
Because it would be for twins I would have thought it would be ok as you cannot really take n the own twin without the other. I would call ofsted and explain the situation and see what they say. I think that as long as you risk assess to explain and cover yourself then you would be ok.

Debbie

**FussyElmo** · 08-10-2013, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Tazmin68

Now
Because it would be for twins I would have thought it would be ok as you cannot really take n the own twin without the other. I would call ofsted and explain the situation and see what they say. I think that as long as you risk assess to explain and cover yourself then you would be ok.

Debbie

Ofsted will no longer tell you yes or no they just refer you back to the eyfs. No where in there does it say that taking twins on is acceptable for a variation.

**Bakez66** · 08-10-2013, 04:54 PM

I had an enquiry for twins but I only had one space available so I had to say no as it's not classed as continuity of care

**moggy** · 08-10-2013, 05:11 PM

Twins are two children = two places. They need to find a child minder with 2 vacancies. No other way around it.

**Bakez66** · 08-10-2013, 05:12 PM

The only way round it would be to take on an assistant

**Tealady** · 08-10-2013, 05:16 PM

Unless you can prove that no other childminder reasonably locally hasn't got two spaces when needed (and how would you do that?) then you can't take them as they could go together elsewhere. Just because you can't take them without a self variation doesn't make it continuity of care I'm afraid.

It is a pain as twins from DS's preschool wanted me one afternoon a week for three hours. They were friends with DS and current mindee. All parents would have been happy and I felt I could have cared for them adequately but it was a no go.

**sarah707** · 08-10-2013, 05:58 PM

As others have advised - 2 children = 2 spaces - there are no special rules for new business

**tori4** · 08-10-2013, 07:59 PM

Arrgh!

I asked similar question last week both here and to CO

I have taken on x2 triplets one day a week rotating which two..

I already have their older brother in my care BUT only have one space on the day they require
Is this ok?

My CO seemed to think so?

Also on another day I already have on contract

1 set of twins
X1 3yr old

3yrs baby sister has joined us on same day ??? Is this ok?

Sorry to ask again but didn't get much response when I asked b4.

My CO is happy with both as continuity of care for both families.

Now I am confused ???

Have done huge risk assessment plus informed all families..

TIA

**sing-low** · 08-10-2013, 08:03 PM

tori4, I think you are ok under 'continuity of care' because the children that take you over your 3 EYFS spaces are all siblings of current Los (if I'm reading your post correctly). The issue is, you can't go over for new business i.e. children unrelated to ones you already care for.

**tori4** · 08-10-2013, 08:13 PM

Thank you sing-low .... Fingers crossed I have read it right :-)

**Kiddleywinks** · 08-10-2013, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by moggy

Twins are two children = two places. They need to find a child minder with 2 vacancies. No other way around it.

Originally Posted by sarah707

As others have advised - 2 children = 2 spaces - there are no special rules for new business

So how would that work for enquiries of twins under 12 months, as we can only have 1 under the age of 1?

Would you have to have 2 EYFS spaces available for new business?

Apologies if I'm being a bit slow

**loocyloo** · 08-10-2013, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kiddleywinks

So how would that work for enquiries of twins under 12 months, as we can only have 1 under the age of 1?

Would you have to have 2 EYFS spaces available for new business?

Apologies if I'm being a bit slow

yes I think so . you would have to have 2 EY spaces and then risk assess etc for twins under 1.

**Mummits** · 09-10-2013, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Tazmin68

Now
Because it would be for twins I would have thought it would be ok as you cannot really take n the own twin without the other. I would call ofsted and explain the situation and see what they say. I think that as long as you risk assess to explain and cover yourself then you would be ok.

Debbie

Thank you all for your replies. I have spent a fair bit of time studying the EYFS and guidance on ratios and honestly cannot find anything to rule out taking on twins, or indeed any siblings. Both online and in real life (at CMs group) there seem to be a wide "variation" of interpretations of the rules, which suggests to me they are shockingly badly drafted. As it happens, I am not particularly bothered about taking on these children or not, but I would be very much more so if my livelihood depended upon the question, and it does make me quite cross that OFSTED can be so unhelpful. I may follow it up with my local authority just to see if they can do anything useful... sorry, I mean just as a matter of interest!

**Ripeberry** · 09-10-2013, 11:54 AM

Or you might have to give notice to an existing child. You need to work out what is best for you financially. But first see if you can move some around to fit them in. It must be such a nightmare for parents of twins to find care with a CM.