Going mad and becoming frustrated

**lorettacritchet** · 18-09-2013, 08:36 PM

Hi,

I look after an almost 2.5 year old girl. Have looked after her since 6 months old. Recently I have been going through so many issues with her and that's to be expected especially because it's that temper stage etc. However recently, she's been the ultimate nightmare and I am lost after trying so many different avenues and I am left with a severe headache.

Main issue is her food. She has always had set meals with me i.e. breakfast, then a lunch a few hours after and an afternoon snack. Over the last few weeks, she has refused to sit at the table and screams at breakfast and meal times. I have spoken to her mum about it to see what is given at home, how this girl is at home with meal times and all the ideas the mum has said that this girl eats at home she doesn't want it at mine and I know from another conversation, it's vice versa. What she eats here (well when she did) refuses it at home!

What I worked out last week was she was refusing food because she wanted to be fed by an adult supporter. She would eat perfectly fine if we fed her. I felt confident I would manage the next session with her.

BUT today was mad, she came in a great mood and it was lovely. I tried to feed her breakfast. She didn't like my first suggestion so I tried changing it to cereal, brioches, yoghurts fruits etc....just anything to feed her. Today absolutely nothing but a bite out of a banana, two spoons of porridge etc !!! She ate here and there and when I had my breakfast she would be trying to get my breakfast even though it's the same as what I had offered! Even when I do offer it she refuses it....so I left it thinking if she doesn't eat anything she will be gagging for lunch later.
I purposely left out all snacks and fruit to ensure there was an appetite, but I was wrong.
Literally as soon I sat this girl at the table with the other kids, this child went mad, screamed and screamed. I sat with her to calm her down and thought feeding her would do the trick. It didn't. All she kept doing was drinking her juice bottle so I took it away so she didn't fill herself up. I tried to spoon feed this girl and she would just continue to cry so was unable to properly feed her without fear of choking. So I thought I would just move her away from the table - this made her cry!

I left it for a few minutes watching as this girl tries to stand at the table, seeming as if she was hungry, she didn't take anything....then thought despite age I will try the highchair. She sat absolutely fine in the highchair but again didn't help the situation when the food came along. Eventually I gave up because I can't spoon feed her nor want her to choke.
She spent the whole afternoon screaming on and off even if my assistant and I were chatting to other children or asking if she wanted to sit on our laps. It was like this for three hours even after a sleep. This girl had no temp nor other issues. Her nappies were fine. You couldn't simply look at this girl for starting her off again! and this has been what she has been like for a long while and it's not separation anxiety.

I am aware from the mum this girl is going through a very temperamental time i.e. throwing tables and chairs over and kicking them in a temper if she doesn't get her way, wacking her granddad on the face thinking it's funny amongst other things and I know she demands yoghurts and biscuits all the time.

This is so hard. Of course I don't want to force feed this child especially if she's not hungry, that's wrong but neither do I want to starve her as she won't tell me she's hungry (her speech is still not that great) nor do I want to take her out of the routine/not include her when everyone else eats. I think a growing child should eat two/three meals a day if possible but certainly not be left out of the loop as I never know if she wants to eat. I just hate the idea of her or any other child not even trying food. Even if she had eaten a few bites I would have been happy. I just don't know if I believe this when she's hungry she will eat as it hasn't happened over the last few weeks!
I have found out she sits at a table for dinner at home so no different to what she does here.....just not understanding and am lost.

Furthermore the second issue is this child does not want to sleep all of a sudden in her usual spot unless it's in your arms. Even if you allow this, you put her down she wakes up and goes mad! again making her cry and she doesn't stop!!!

**ziggy** · 18-09-2013, 08:45 PM

oh dear, just read another similar post to this one.

seems to me it is a control issue lol, little madam

Not sure if many on here will agree but with regard to food i have done the same thing for 34 years (and pleased to say a child has never starved to death yet!!)

Food gets put on plate in front of child sitting properly at table, i always start with small portions, then chat away as I eat or drink. If any child doesnt want to eat I just lift them from table/high chair send them off to play with no fuss and continue chatting to others. No other food is offered till next meal/snack time

as for sleeping: child is put in bed/cot and told calmly 'its sleeping time now'. If child doesnt sleep i keep going in but dont speak, just put blanket back on and maybe repeat 'its sleeping time now'

good luck

**Mrsh3103** · 18-09-2013, 08:48 PM

I know you've said you're not happy with the 'child won't starve herself' theory but it has worked for my ds. He was a terrible eater & in the end we just sat him at the table, put food in front of him then just ignored him. Didn't comment if he cried, shouted etc. When everyone had finished I would just clear his plate too whether he had eaten or not.
With ds it was all about control & attention. To me this is what is sounds like with this lo. She just wants the attention! Try just ignoring her behaviour, hopefully she'll get bored of not getting a reaction & eat.
Good luck!!!

**Katiekoo** · 18-09-2013, 08:58 PM

Could you talk with mum again maybe sort out a food diary, detailing what was eaten, how much was eaten, where it was eaten and any tricks used or fuss made.

She does sound unsettled overall.

Do you feel the info the parent gave you about what happens at home is accurate? Do you think maybe at home she gets her own way and gets to eat just what she wants how she wants, ie yoghurt and biscuits while wandering about the house??? Just a guess, you did give a glimpse of this in your op.

Could something have happened at a meal time to trigger these outbursts?

It's easy to get into a cycle at mealtimes of refusal and frustration between child and adults, I've got into it before, tricky to break it. Once they realise you just want them to try, things usually ease.

Hope you get to the bottom of this.

**loocyloo** · 18-09-2013, 09:01 PM

Dr Christopher Green ( author of toddler taming ) says it takes a child 60 days to starve to death!

So a few days of not eating won't do any harm.

Thinking of you. Xxxx

**sing-low** · 18-09-2013, 09:04 PM

I sympathise with you - my DD is a similar age and oh my word the tantrums! She is pushing every boundary and it is very hard work to be both loving and firm (and to know which to be in which situation).

As others have said, this seems to be about control and it does sound like you are very anxious about what and how much this LO eats. I think that 99 times out of a hundred children won't starve themselves, however there will be that one that just won't eat and may need specialist help. If you are concerned, perhaps you could suggest that Mum speaks with the health visitor or takes LO to the GP to rule out any other issues.

**merry** · 18-09-2013, 09:17 PM

It sounds like she's figured out a way to get lots of attention. I do the same as Ziggy. We all sit down together and food is put in front of them, if they start throwing food, screaming etc they are removed from the table. They get one chance to come back and eat, if they carry on misbehaving that's it until the next meal. They really won't starve, and if they feel hungry it might remind them to behave better at the next meal, it won't hurt a child to feel hungry for a little while. If you're old enough and capable enough to feed yourself, then that's what you do, and if you don't then you'll go hungry until the next meal/snack. If a child is refusing meals I still give snacks but make them smaller, and I don't offer too much choice either, it can be overwhelming to a young child to be offered several types of cereal, toast, porridge, yogurt, fruit - and once they've decided and I've started to make it, they can't change their mind either.

**VeggieSausage** · 19-09-2013, 08:41 AM

I look after 2 boys and the mum is totally paranoid about them not eating properly and hangs around them offfering food and drinks every time they blink. Anyone the elder one realised that this was a way to get to mum and would push her buttons and starting creating here at mealtimes etc, I however ignored it and did as previous post, presented food and if it wasn't eaten take it away and meal was over. Cut snacks I would say as a child not eating their meals doesn't need to fill up on snacks - although I did also have a lo once who had eating issues and the hv advised mum to just give snacks as he preferred them....so they packed him full of biscuits!.....anyhow ignore and ignore again, tell them as they are being so noisy they will have to eat when the others are finished, as they may be trying to get attention by creating such a commotion - does that make me sound a bit harsh?!?

**lorettacritchet** · 19-09-2013, 08:06 PM

Yeah maybe will play it that way then BUT what do you do if the child cries as soon as you sit her down at the table, without the food even being in front of her?

Have tried this sleep thing as suggested for months on end. This girl will scream the whole time and not stop from tiredness until she gets out of the cot!!! She has pure stubbornness...

Originally Posted by ziggy

oh dear, just read another similar post to this one.

seems to me it is a control issue lol, little madam

Not sure if many on here will agree but with regard to food i have done the same thing for 34 years (and pleased to say a child has never starved to death yet!!)

Food gets put on plate in front of child sitting properly at table, i always start with small portions, then chat away as I eat or drink. If any child doesnt want to eat I just lift them from table/high chair send them off to play with no fuss and continue chatting to others. No other food is offered till next meal/snack time

as for sleeping: child is put in bed/cot and told calmly 'its sleeping time now'. If child doesnt sleep i keep going in but dont speak, just put blanket back on and maybe repeat 'its sleeping time now'

good luck

**lorettacritchet** · 19-09-2013, 08:07 PM

I just hate feeling and knowing this child hasn't eaten. It feels like it's my fault she is hungry. I keep thinking if Ofsted walk in and see her like this then how will it look this child being hungry!

Originally Posted by sing-low

I sympathise with you - my DD is a similar age and oh my word the tantrums! She is pushing every boundary and it is very hard work to be both loving and firm (and to know which to be in which situation).

As others have said, this seems to be about control and it does sound like you are very anxious about what and how much this LO eats. I think that 99 times out of a hundred children won't starve themselves, however there will be that one that just won't eat and may need specialist help. If you are concerned, perhaps you could suggest that Mum speaks with the health visitor or takes LO to the GP to rule out any other issues.

**lorettacritchet** · 19-09-2013, 08:12 PM

Yes I understand - will it a go. Let me explain that I didn't offer all five choices for breakfast at once lol! It was between when she arrived to just before 11.30 (so 4 hours) so not sure if there was any kind of her being overwhelmed.

I know I sound old saying this but I grew up having to eat everything on my plate whether I liked it or not because "of starving children around the world and how lucky I was" and I hate wasting money and food. I wish I had a dog so at least food wouldn't go to waste.

I know this girl is very spoilt, her mum carries her from the car to my house, continues to hold her when we handover so to speak and this child will have a tantrum when she doesn't get her way.

Originally Posted by merry

It sounds like she's figured out a way to get lots of attention. I do the same as Ziggy. We all sit down together and food is put in front of them, if they start throwing food, screaming etc they are removed from the table. They get one chance to come back and eat, if they carry on misbehaving that's it until the next meal. They really won't starve, and if they feel hungry it might remind them to behave better at the next meal, it won't hurt a child to feel hungry for a little while. If you're old enough and capable enough to feed yourself, then that's what you do, and if you don't then you'll go hungry until the next meal/snack. If a child is refusing meals I still give snacks but make them smaller, and I don't offer too much choice either, it can be overwhelming to a young child to be offered several types of cereal, toast, porridge, yogurt, fruit - and once they've decided and I've started to make it, they can't change their mind either.

**Stapleton83** · 19-09-2013, 09:54 PM

Poor you what a nightmare! My only suggestion would be to put the food on the table before she sits down then go through the usual routine of handwashing etc before sitting down so that it is in front of her. Give her so long to settle and eat and if she will not then get her down from the table and tell her to go off and play. If she is still making a commotion just sitting down I would put her up at the table once everyone else has eaten whilst you tidy away and the others play. It may be she will feel she is missing out and there is no one to gain attention from so settles.

In terms of the sleep at 2.5 it could be that she is getting to the stage where she doesn't need a sleep every day.

Frankly if it was me I don't think I could keep going like it as it is; she sounds like a right little madam who is wrapping mum and dad around her finger! If you feel able to you could have a frank discussion with mum and say things need to change at home for things to change with you but it depends on your relationship with them.

Good luck

Sam x

**merry** · 20-09-2013, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by lorettacritchet

Yes I understand - will it a go. Let me explain that I didn't offer all five choices for breakfast at once lol! It was between when she arrived to just before 11.30 (so 4 hours) so not sure if there was any kind of her being overwhelmed.

I know I sound old saying this but I grew up having to eat everything on my plate whether I liked it or not because "of starving children around the world and how lucky I was" and I hate wasting money and food. I wish I had a dog so at least food wouldn't go to waste.

I know this girl is very spoilt, her mum carries her from the car to my house, continues to hold her when we handover so to speak and this child will have a tantrum when she doesn't get her way.

I grew up the same with the 'starving children would be grateful for that so you're not wasting it' and parents who'd been through rationing, food shortages, so nothing was wasted. You could try giving her very small portions so not as much is wasted. I do sympathise, some children have a nightmare toddlerhood, I looked after one who was aggressive, argumentative, picked a battle over every single thing and I breathed a huge sigh of relief every day when he went home. He put a massive strain on his parents marriage and the whole family went through hell for a few years, but now at 6 years old, you wouldn't recognise him, he's kind, polite, well behaved.

**lorettacritchet** · 21-09-2013, 07:35 AM

Thanks and yes it is a nightmare. I had a discussion with the mum this morning and she told me whenever the girl says she's hungry her mum feeds her (although she never tells me she's hungry) ....so seems there's no set routine to this child's life now....she asks her mum for food and then it appears magically. I told the mum I have routines to keep therefore if the girl doesn't eat, she doesn't eat

Originally Posted by Stapleton83

Poor you what a nightmare! My only suggestion would be to put the food on the table before she sits down then go through the usual routine of handwashing etc before sitting down so that it is in front of her. Give her so long to settle and eat and if she will not then get her down from the table and tell her to go off and play. If she is still making a commotion just sitting down I would put her up at the table once everyone else has eaten whilst you tidy away and the others play. It may be she will feel she is missing out and there is no one to gain attention from so settles.

In terms of the sleep at 2.5 it could be that she is getting to the stage where she doesn't need a sleep every day.

Frankly if it was me I don't think I could keep going like it as it is; she sounds like a right little madam who is wrapping mum and dad around her finger! If you feel able to you could have a frank discussion with mum and say things need to change at home for things to change with you but it depends on your relationship with them.

Good luck

Sam x

**yummyripples** · 21-09-2013, 08:43 AM

Totally feel for you. Some parents don't realise that the love, protection and kindness they are giving their children is actually doing them harm.
I had a little boy who at the age of 3 still had his grapes cut up into eight pieces, was not allowed to be given a whole apple and was unable to go up and down stairs.
With the food my attitude is that they will eat if they are hungry. Tge little boy with the other issues decided to not eat what was given so mum fed him what he wanted to ensure he ate. What he wanted was those processed cheese and ham cracker things, pepperami, crisps and biscuits.
No wonder he wouldn't eat proper food

**blue bear** · 21-09-2013, 07:52 PM

Try and relax, don't offer different food throughout the morning, it's breakfast, snack two hours later then lunch.

I had a lo like yours, i would read a story or do a little puppet show story during meals,I would tell lo you don't have to eat anything if you don't want,sit and listen to the story, put the food near her, if she eats then good if not say nothing, just put the plate on The side out of reach and get her down to play.

at snack time I give them an empty plate each and snack is on the 'sharing plate' the children serve themselves putting their choices on their own plate, if she chooses nothing then fine, read the story or sing songs, whatever to distract her from the pressure of eating. Take the control away from her and there will be no reason for her to play up.

**lorettacritchet** · 21-09-2013, 09:07 PM

What has annoyed me is that the mother and grandfather (as they live together with the little girl) have decided in their infinite wisdom to allow this girl to dictate when meal times are going to be! I have no idea why they decided to throw things out of all routine! making me wonder why all this time she was starting to have issues and only tell me when I face them about them. Then they have the cheek to blame it on the child!

Originally Posted by blue bear

Try and relax, don't offer different food throughout the morning, it's breakfast, snack two hours later then lunch.

I had a lo like yours, i would read a story or do a little puppet show story during meals,I would tell lo you don't have to eat anything if you don't want,sit and listen to the story, put the food near her, if she eats then good if not say nothing, just put the plate on The side out of reach and get her down to play.

at snack time I give them an empty plate each and snack is on the 'sharing plate' the children serve themselves putting their choices on their own plate, if she chooses nothing then fine, read the story or sing songs, whatever to distract her from the pressure of eating. Take the control away from her and there will be no reason for her to play up.

**jackie 7** · 21-09-2013, 10:03 PM

I would tell the children lunch was ready. The other children sit at the table then if she doesn't come no problem. No food. No snacks. I have to make a snack early and very small otherwise lunch is not eaten. So hard Shen parents don't listen.

**beachgirl29** · 21-09-2013, 10:32 PM

sounds like she's testing you and i am not sure mum is telling the truth. Maybe she has given in a few times and not told you?

I think a food diary is good but if mum is not doing the same as you do at yours....i don't know.

Need a good sit down and chat. xxxx

this sounds horrible for you i hope things improve. x