Cant compete with preschool!

**jadavi** · 04-09-2013, 03:40 PM

Had a potential parent visit with her baby. We all got on famously and she said on leaving.
I'm just going to check out a local preschool and will let you know.
I hadn't heard of this so looked at it on childcare.co.uk and found they are charging £12.50 for a 9-3.30 day!! Less than half what I charge at £4 an hour
Really shocked. Wondering if this is gonna start happening more and more.
How can they afford to take a salary and pay overheads for renting premises on that?

**emma04** · 04-09-2013, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by jadavi

Had a potential parent visit with her baby. We all got on famously and she said on leaving.
I'm just going to check out a local preschool and will let you know.
I hadn't heard of this so looked at it on childcare.co.uk and found they are charging £12.50 for a 9-3.30 day!! Less than half what I charge at £4 an hour
Really shocked. Wondering if this is gonna start happening more and more.
How can they afford to take a salary and pay overheads for renting premises on that?

Does that include 3hrs free funding??
If not then they are very cheap!!

**loocyloo** · 04-09-2013, 04:45 PM

how can a preschool take babies?

our preschool takes 2 yr olds, and that only started as part of the pilot for funded 2 yr olds.

**KatieFS** · 04-09-2013, 05:03 PM

It's must be a nursery or daycare?? There is similar here that offers places to babies too

**Samijanec** · 04-09-2013, 05:11 PM

That can't be right surely?

**Tealady** · 04-09-2013, 05:23 PM

That is ridiculously low! I'm treasurer of a Pre-school so know how much these types of places take to run.

We are a traditional type of Pre-school, registered for children from 12mths but only take from 18mth. We rent the village hall and have enough staff and rooms to seperate tinies from the Pre-schoolers in the morning.

I would be worried what they are doing to cut costs? The best senario I can imagine is if they are run by volunteers so have no payroll so ratios, activities and safety measures are not skimped. We charge more for under twos due to the lower ratios for this age and therefore needing more staff.

**rickysmiths** · 04-09-2013, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Tealady

That is ridiculously low! I'm treasurer of a Pre-school so know how much these types of places take to run.

We are a traditional type of Pre-school, registered for children from 12mths but only take from 18mth. We rent the village hall and have enough staff and rooms to seperate tinies from the Pre-schoolers in the morning.

I would be worried what they are doing to cut costs? The best senario I can imagine is if they are run by volunteers so have no payroll so ratios, activities and safety measures are not skimped. We charge more for under twos due to the lower ratios for this age and therefore needing more staff.

I'm sorry but the traditional Play Groups which were the fore runners of Pre Schools only took children at 2yr 9mth to 3yrs and all children had to be potty trained. It is ridiculous to be taking ones as young as 18 months into a Pre School they are not old enough for that environment at all. Either you are a Day Nursery with a Pre School Room or a Pre School. They were never meant to provide Childcare anyway, they were the bridge from Mum to school. Our local Traditional Pre School only takes 2.5 yrs up and charges £12 for a 3 hour morning. Very reasonable £4 per hour. Playgroups were never expensive because they were not profit making, they were run by a committee of parents, had trained staff and a parent rota.

**Tealady** · 04-09-2013, 09:29 PM

Rickysmith, while I normally agree with you on this I don't :-)

Our pre-school is a registered charity and as Treasurer I can assure you we are definately 'not for profit" as we have made a small loss two years running, and before that any profit was miniscule.

Most of the staff are ex Mum's with a childcare background. We take them young as we were getting requests to do so as there is a lack childcare for that age in the village and with children starting school earlier we lost a lot of grant income. So it was expand or fold and after being open since the 60's that would have been a shame.

A morning 9-12 will cost £11.25 for 3+ and littlies are £13.50 and given this is a posh area in South Oxon that's not a bad price.

The staff in charge of the littlies are 2 ex CM's and an ex Nanny. When DS was 15 months and I needed Childcare 1 morning a week and none of the decent CM's in my town would take a one day contract I placed him there at the ripe old age of 15mths and he was very well looked after.

Sorry for the rant but I love the pre-school and that's why I still make the 10 mile drive to the rather than sending more to a more local one.

Back to the point of my original post, knowing what I do about the costs to run a preschool and given our losses in recent years, even in an area with lower wages and cost that does seem unfeasibly low for a day.

**Jenna** · 04-09-2013, 09:50 PM

My ds started pre school today. It's attached to our local primary school. They have to be 2.5 to go and fully toilet trained. They charge £4 p/h and parents have to send a healthy morning and afternoon snack then either pack lunch or school dinners which are a extra £2.10 per day. Once he's 3 he'll then get his 10 hours free. At the moment he's doing 2 days at £26 per day. I do feel this is a little steep for pre school.

**kellib** · 04-09-2013, 10:36 PM

That to me isn't pre school/nursery, that sounds like a playgroup setting, which is fine, I sent my own son to something similar when he was 2.

I paid £12 a week for 3 two and a half hour sessions there. £2 more than I would charge lol.

**karen m** · 05-09-2013, 06:45 AM

I can remember whe children could only go to pre school at 2.9 , fully potty trained now they can go still in nappies and yes it did use to be bridge from home to reception

**rickysmiths** · 05-09-2013, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Jenna

My ds started pre school today. It's attached to our local primary school. They have to be 2.5 to go and fully toilet trained. They charge £4 p/h and parents have to send a healthy morning and afternoon snack then either pack lunch or school dinners which are a extra £2.10 per day. Once he's 3 he'll then get his 10 hours free. At the moment he's doing 2 days at £26 per day. I do feel this is a little steep for pre school.

They can not exclude a child if they are not fully potty trained.

Simona · 05-09-2013, 08:12 AM

Tealady...you took me back in time when I was a member of PPA who then became PLA causing a lot of furore in my area and within the Association!! They have come a long away now and much respected!
It was all about Playgroups against what people saw as pre-schools...with formal learning!!

I think 'competition' is what we will see more and more since Truss introduced very publicly the notion of the 'childcare market'
We will see it for cms competing against cms, nurseries and schools and above all '''agencies!!

These days, after so much talk about 'quality' parents will still choose with their purse strings....look around you and you will see schools taking our kids and more and more unregistered carers popping up...calling themselves childminders or baby sitters...........what we can do depends on how we feel about all this!!

**Daisy1956** · 05-09-2013, 07:32 PM

A local before and after school care club offers places during the school hols at £19.50 a day. I don't know how they do it.

**mum26** · 05-09-2013, 07:58 PM

Here too, in the summer holidays we had a childcare company offering 8.30 til 5.00 for £16.62 per day, operating from my local primary school, for school-age children. Needless to say most of the children who attend term-time after school went there on the days it was running. The facilities they were offering sounded very good, but I can't understand how it can be so cheap.