unannounced ofsted viits

[Greengrass74]

Please don't shoot me down, but I think that unannounced visits are a good thing.

As professional people we should all be working within the guidelines set by Ofsted and so should be able to produce whatever they need if they visit.

Maybe if there were more unannounced visits then OFsted would be able to deal with the poor childminders that people always seem to be moaning about on here and other forums/Facebook.

I know it is a bit scary to think of Ofsted just turning up unannounced but if we are doing what we should then there should be no problem. In fact I am very proud of the way I work and my business and love showing others. Let them visit us unannounced and see how well we really work and how well we plan our days and like I said no one should have any issue with this if we are all doing what we have trained for and learnt.

[TooEarlyForGin?]

Please don't shoot me down, but I think that unannounced visits are a good thing.

As professional people we should all be working within the guidelines set by Ofsted and so should be able to produce whatever they need if they visit.

Maybe if there were more unannounced visits then OFsted would be able to deal with the poor childminders that people always seem to be moaning about on here and other forums/Facebook.

I know it is a bit scary to think of Ofsted just turning up unannounced but if we are doing what we should then there should be no problem. In fact I am very proud of the way I work and my business and love showing others. Let them visit us unannounced and see how well we really work and how well we plan our days and like I said no one should have any issue with this if we are all doing what we have trained for and learnt.

I agree, but the way OFSTED are at the moment they aren't acting impartially and seem to be out to "catch us out". Minders that are very busy doing the fantastic job of caring for kids are getting downgraded for things like not having learning journeys on the premises, or just not having children there on that day, how does these things give a true idea how a person is operating. I am in the middle of getting policies re-done and signed, updating emergency contact forms, I have signed up 3 new parents and am in the middle of settling, getting routines in place, so although I know I am brilliant ;-) at the moment I could end up with a lower grading. Unless they start to accept we are 1 person doing a hard job and sometimes things can be a bit difficult, we will worry.

I also have Mondays free to do paperwork, and as my children are grown up, I clear all equipment away on a Friday and don't get them out again until Tuesday. It would be disgusting if I was given a low grade because of this. Which is why we deserve a different set of standards to nurseries.

[lilac_dragon]

I have just replied to a post about Bluelion having a bad neck today and also on that thread stapleton said she had an accident yesterday and has black eyes and stitches in her head - but both of them are still working today - I don't expect either of them will be working at quite their usual 100% efficiency or enthusiasum but in the parents eyes they are absolute stars for carrying on and not letting them down - however would they get any brownie points today if Ofsted turned up for unannounced visit or would they get downgraded?

We all carry on regardless - not letting the parent down is our mantra - I have only had one sick day off in 8 years - but there have been countless days when if I had worked in a "proper" job I would have phoned in sick.

They'd probably be down graded - but as you say, we don't like letting people down.
If we have a day off for any reason, especially illness which is therefore short notice, it can affect several people who can't go into work as they have no childcare. Where I live, there aren't any other "local" childminders to just pass the los on to.
We might have to work at a lower level for a day or even two, but we're committed to our families. The children won't suffer if they have an occasional free play day but Ofsted won't look at it like that.

[lilac_dragon]

I agree, but the way OFSTED are at the moment they aren't acting impartially and seem to be out to "catch us out". Minders that are very busy doing the fantastic job of caring for kids are getting downgraded for things like not having learning journeys on the premises, or just not having children there on that day, how does these things give a true idea how a person is operating. I am in the middle of getting policies re-done and signed, updating emergency contact forms, I have signed up 3 new parents and am in the middle of settling, getting routines in place, so although I know I am brilliant ;-) at the moment I could end up with a lower grading. Unless they start to accept we are 1 person doing a hard job and sometimes things can be a bit difficult, we will worry.

I also have Mondays free to do paperwork, and as my children are grown up, I clear all equipment away on a Friday and don't get them out again until Tuesday. It would be disgusting if I was given a low grade because of this. Which is why we deserve a different set of standards to nurseries.

I totally agree with this.
And Greengrass, you're right in some ways, BUT I started this post to highlight some of the circumstances that might be happening just when an unannounced visit happened.
If I had booked and paid for tickets to take the los out for the day then not only would the los be devastated but so would I, and I'd also be out of pocket, if Mrs O said we couldn't go. If the los were really upset, which they would be, then I'm going to HAVE to concentrate on them - not her.
If I'd got a Doctors appointment - which is not easy to re-schedule, and affects the Drs and other patients if I don't attend - then I could be risking my health. After all, I wouldn't have booked an appointment to just go and chat about the weather!
If Mrs O came on a day that the los were in Nursery - but I'm being paid to take, pick up and be responsible for them if there's a problem, then should it be MY fault that the children aren't in the house?
The child I have with Autism, is the only one on a particular day so that he has one to one with me. He doesn't do strangers, and we have made a big step forward with his behaviour. If Mrs. O came on that day, I would have to ask her to wait outside, ring his Dad to come and collect him, and then there'd be no children in the house for Mrs. O. Would I be downgraded? Probably, but he - and the hard work I've put in with him - would be safe. If I WAS downgraded for this, I would contact the national newspapers with my story.

When Social Services used to inspect us, it was ALWAYS unannounced, and was yearly. Often, our local SS Childcare Manager would pop in a couple of times a year, sometimes it was only a month or so apart. It was in the days when the most paperwork we used to do was a Register, First Aid Book and contracts so the paperwork was minimal. She would check the house was safe, clean and tidy, write down what the children were doing and what resources were available have a coffee and a chat, give feedback and suggestions and then go. It was always the same person, so there was continuity. If you phoned her with a query, she would get back to you in a couple of hours max if she wasn't available immediately. She dropped into our weekly Childminder meetings to make sure all was well. She was great. We all knew her and knew that we could go to her with anything. I treasure the Inspection Reports she used to write - she made me feel valued.

Unannounced visits aren't necessarily bad - as long as Mrs O can accept that sometimes it would have been better for it to have been arranged. Not because we're sat watching tv in our pyjamas while the los swing from the chandelier, not because we're hiding something, but because there might be legitimate circumstances where a days notice would have been better for EVERYONE.

[loocyloo]

I have Mondays off, and use a couple of hours each Monday to do the weeks planning, update LJs, sort resources etc.

I do do obs/take photos during the week but nothing is put in until the Monday. if I had an un-announced mine would not be completely up to date and like other posters have said ... start of term/settling new starters in, sorting through/updating paperwork. at the moment I am all over the place! the care & education of the children is still the same, but the stuff around the edges is ragged!

[Greengrass74]

It seems that from what some are saying is that unannounced visits would not be a problem if there was some flexibility from the inspectors, such as if we are going out then they must not stop this or if we have an appointment then we should not cancel.
I agree that there needs to be some understanding from inspectors which should also apply to paperwork. They need to understand that we may not be upto date with everything but as long as we can proof we are doing the most important paperwork then we should no be penalised.

I still agree with unannounced visits but maybe Ofsted need to change the way they work when it comes to just turning up for an inspection. After all you would not expect a food inspector to give a time and date that they are going to inspect a food preparation company.

Maybe the answer is to phone us on a Monday and say that they will be visiting us some time during that week.

[TooEarlyForGin?]

When Social Services used to inspect us, it was ALWAYS unannounced, and was yearly. Often, our local SS Childcare Manager would pop in a couple of times a year, sometimes it was only a month or so apart. It was in the days when the most paperwork we used to do was a Register, First Aid Book and contracts so the paperwork was minimal. She would check the house was safe, clean and tidy, write down what the children were doing and what resources were available have a coffee and a chat, give feedback and suggestions and then go. It was always the same person, so there was continuity. If you phoned her with a query, she would get back to you in a couple of hours max if she wasn't available immediately. She dropped into our weekly Childminder meetings to make sure all was well. She was great. We all knew her and knew that we could go to her with anything. I treasure the Inspection Reports she used to write - she made me feel valued.

Unannounced visits aren't necessarily bad - as long as Mrs O can accept that sometimes it would have been better for it to have been arranged. Not because we're sat watching tv in our pyjamas while the los swing from the chandelier, not because we're hiding something, but because there might be legitimate circumstances where a days notice would have been better for EVERYONE.

I have said I would rather have short regular checks than a massive build up ever 4-5 years. Since becoming accredited my LA visited me twice a year, the same lady who grew to know me and my practice. Similar to you with social services, she was great, always at hand with useful advice and help. Of course she has now gone with all these stupid reforms. So now it's back to a faceless person with a jobsworth hat and clipboard.

[TooEarlyForGin?]

It seems that from what some are saying is that unannounced visits would not be a problem if there was some flexibility from the inspectors, such as if we are going out then they must not stop this or if we have an appointment then we should not cancel.
I agree that there needs to be some understanding from inspectors which should also apply to paperwork. They need to understand that we may not be upto date with everything but as long as we can proof we are doing the most important paperwork then we should no be penalised.

I still agree with unannounced visits but maybe Ofsted need to change the way they work when it comes to just turning up for an inspection. After all you would not expect a food inspector to give a time and date that they are going to inspect a food preparation company.

Maybe the answer is to phone us on a Monday and say that they will be visiting us some time during that week.

Exactly, but OFSTED isn't behaving like a good little one. Generally I have been called either on a Friday or Monday to find out what I am doing so have never been given long periods of time, but enough to prepare the children and get paperwork out ready.

[maisiemog]

At the moment I only do school age care and if ofsted turned up unannounced then they would definitely be downgrading me!

I'm using my day time to sort and decorate! At the moment I'm covered in paint because I'm painting the downstairs bathroom cos I know if i put a coat on now it would be dry by after school time!

My paperwork is in place but my house certainly isnt! I've not washed up this morning. I've got piles of clothes everywhere as I'm also getting washing done! Plus I've worked full time all holiday, except while I was away and my house has got more and more cluttered as the weeks have gone by! Ofsted would by see it in a positive light but by 3pm when I need to have it clean tidy and safe it will be! (Even if I only get it that way by hiding things in rooms not used for minding!)

I'm all for unannounced inspections where there is a concern but I don't think we should be downgraded for having a less than perfect day or have our plans disrupted when its a routine inspection!

[Simona]

Despite the email from Ofsted received yesterday we still appear to be speculating and there is still too much confusion

The reply I received from Ofsted came from a senior manager not the helpline!

Unannounced visits can only be carried out in response to a complaint...in this case we must allow the inspector access as she will have legal rights to enrty ...if you are concerned about her identity you can ask her to wait until you have rang Ofsted and clarified even though the inspector will carry a badge
If we did this more often Ofsted would wake up to the problem.
An inspector who rings a cm will give her name which you can then verify on her badge.

Regular inspections require the inspector to ring the cm first to ensure she is working, not on holiday, has children on roll. It does not mean she will make a definite appointment.
If inspectors are turning up unannounced for a cycle inspection please let Ofsted know...only then they can act to stop the practice

A wasted journey to a cm setting is a lot of money wasted Ofsted should account for.
Cms do not have special dispensation ...this is in place because we go out and about in the community and do school pick ups and do not operate within 4 walls.

As you are aware these concerns are being taken to Ofsted via the #OfstedBigConversation meetings...7 of them in total well scattered around England
Please attend or at least send your worries via someone who is going and can flag them up for you!

[Mouse]

Despite the email from Ofsted received yesterday we still appear to be speculating and there is still too much confusion

The reply I received from Ofsted came from a senior manager not the helpline!

Unannounced visits can only be carried out in response to a complaint...in this case we must allow the inspector access as she will have legal rights to enrty ...if you are concerned about her identity you can ask her to wait until you have rang Ofsted and clarified even though the inspector will carry a badge
If we did this more often Ofsted would wake up to the problem.
An inspector who rings a cm will give her name which you can then verify on her badge.

Regular inspections require the inspector to ring the cm first to ensure she is working, not on holiday, has children on roll. It does not mean she will make a definite appointment.
If inspectors are turning up unannounced for a cycle inspection please let Ofsted know...only then they can act to stop the practice

A wasted journey to a cm setting is a lot of money wasted Ofsted should account for.
Cms do not have special dispensation ...this is in place because we go out and about in the community and do school pick ups and do not operate within 4 walls.

As you are aware these concerns are being taken to Ofsted via the #OfstedBigConversation meetings...7 of them in total well scattered around England
Please attend or at least send your worries via someone who is going and can flag them up for you!

The reply may have come from a senior manager, but they clearly don't know what is happening. It's not just a one off occurrence. Childminders are regularly reporting that they've had unannounced inspections, without any prior phone call from Ofsted, the inspection company, or the inspector.

I don't think any of us have a problem with an inspector turning up without a definite appointment, but they do need to phone to check when we'll be in, when we'll have early years children, any days we don't work etc. I hope your senior manager friend will take note of your email and start looking into what's really going on. It's not enough for them to say unannounced visits only happen in response to a complaint. They need to be finding out why it's happening.

[FussyElmo]

The reply may have come from a senior manager, but they clearly don't know what is happening. It's not just a one off occurrence. Childminders are regularly reporting that they've had unannounced inspections, without any prior phone call from Ofsted, the inspection company, or the inspector.

I don't think any of us have a problem with an inspector turning up without a definite appointment, but they do need to phone to check when we'll be in, when we'll have early years children, any days we don't work etc. I hope your senior manager friend will take note of your email and start looking into what's really going on. It's not enough for them to say unannounced visits only happen in response to a complaint. They need to be finding out why it's happening.

I agree Mouse this is not speculation. Childminders are having unannounced visits for routine inspections. Your senior can say whatever in an email Im sure that is little comfort to the minders that have had an inspector on their door wanting to do an inspection.

I think regardless of this email everyone needs to work like they can turn up tomorrow

[Greengrass74]

I think regardless of this email everyone needs to work like they can turn up tomorrow

I totally agree with this.

[rickysmiths]

To be honest if an Inspector knocked on my door unannounced and said it was for a normal inspection not one as a result of a complaint I would shut the door and ring their Company and ask for them to contact the inspector and ask them to leave because no pre contact had been made and I am on my way out and have no intention of changing that. I would then collect the children together and go out even if I hadn't been planning it and leave the Inspector to discuss the matter with her bosses.

Later on I would ring and email a Complaint to both Ofsted and the Inspection Company.

It is yet another case of we must know how we must be treated and stand up for ourselves and take no nonsense. These Inspectors are just doing a job like us but it is not out fault that they may have been trained badly or just be bad at their job. We must stop treating them like the Gods that know it all and to whom we must bow. That is not the case.

[Simona]

The reply may have come from a senior manager, but they clearly don't know what is happening. It's not just a one off occurrence. Childminders are regularly reporting that they've had unannounced inspections, without any prior phone call from Ofsted, the inspection company, or the inspector.

I don't think any of us have a problem with an inspector turning up without a definite appointment, but they do need to phone to check when we'll be in, when we'll have early years children, any days we don't work etc. I hope your senior manager friend will take note of your email and start looking into what's really going on. It's not enough for them to say unannounced visits only happen in response to a complaint. They need to be finding out why it's happening.

Yes inspectors are doing something that is technically not allowed...however... no one reported it before
It has now been reported but unless cms are willing to act on this it will go on...the action of getting clarification has not made any positive contribution here it seems.

If this does go on the next email recipient will the Head of Ofsted...Sue Gregory...I have written to her several times and she has always responded.
It is her remit to ensure Ofsted 'enforces' the rules both for providers and inspectors they employ.

Inspectors should ring first ..if they are not doing so or need to do so then we want it in black and white

Rickysmiths...that is exactly what I would do
We need to make Ofsted aware what is going on and like you I would make that call or send an email.

These inspectors are 'freelance' but I think they still have guidelines to follow and not invent their own.

Fussy Elmo...yes you can disregard the email if you choose to do so and be prepared for an unannounced inspection anytime...
I think this is exactly what we have established because complaints can come at any time and some are backdated

On a professional level, I feel cms and all providers should be ready for an inspection any time and not just rush to put their house in order when an inspection is due...harsh but true!
Many will disagree but that is my view

Sorry I bothered to get something clarified for the benefit of cms...I will think twice next time.

[Mouse]

Sorry if I offended you Simona. I, for one, am very pleased that you emailed for clarification. It is very useful to know what the higher up bods 'think' is happening, although we know the reality can be very different. My point was that even though a senior manager has confirmed inspectors should be contacting us first, we know that in reality that isn't happening. An email from a senior manager isn't going to make any difference unless it's aced upon by them and any childminders who find themselves in this position.

I am like you & Rickysmiths. I would have the confidence to question the inspector and leave them waiting on my doorstep, if need be. I wouldn't really have any objection to an unannounced inspection most days, but if I'm not working I really would object to being inspected with no children present. Like many others, I would also appreciate some notification when I have certain children, who need a bit of extra support around strangers. We don't have any visitors on those days, never mind unexpected ones!

Also, like you, I feel we should be ready for an inspection at any time. I have heard of cms having several month's notice of inspections. They pull out all the stops, work hard to get up to date...then let it all go to pot when the inspection is over. I don't see anything wrong with a phone call saying they're coming the next day. It just gives you time to get everything together, but not long enough to completely make everything up!

[Simona]

Sorry if I offended you Simona. I, for one, am very pleased that you emailed for clarification. It is very useful to know what the higher up bods 'think' is happening, although we know the reality can be very different. My point was that even though a senior manager has confirmed inspectors should be contacting us first, we know that in reality that isn't happening. An email from a senior manager isn't going to make any difference unless it's aced upon by them and any childminders who find themselves in this position.

I am like you & Rickysmiths. I would have the confidence to question the inspector and leave them waiting on my doorstep, if need be. I wouldn't really have any objection to an unannounced inspection most days, but if I'm not working I really would object to being inspected with no children present. Like many others, I would also appreciate some notification when I have certain children, who need a bit of extra support around strangers. We don't have any visitors on those days, never mind unexpected ones!

Also, like you, I feel we should be ready for an inspection at any time. I have heard of cms having several month's notice of inspections. They pull out all the stops, work hard to get up to date...then let it all go to pot when the inspection is over. I don't see anything wrong with a phone call saying they're coming the next day. It just gives you time to get everything together, but not long enough to completely make everything up!

Mouse...I am not in the least offended

The manager who replied is in charge of Enforcement...anyone can write to her and back my email with their concerns
Unfortunately I have no proof, only feedback, that inspectors are turning up without notice and that is what I have reported.

What I intend to do is raise it at #OfstedBigConverstaion as an action for Ofsted to look into because feedback from the meetings will be sent to Ofsted I am sure...unless they attend in person.
In fact feedback to the meetings will be available to all providers

How to complain about Ofsted can be found here
Ofsted | Complaints procedure: raising concerns and making complaints about Ofsted

We have made the 1st step by making Ofsted aware what inspectors are doing to cms...we do not stop here

[TooEarlyForGin?]

To be honest if an Inspector knocked on my door unannounced and said it was for a normal inspection not one as a result of a complaint I would shut the door and ring their Company and ask for them to contact the inspector and ask them to leave because no pre contact had been made and I am on my way out and have no intention of changing that. I would then collect the children together and go out even if I hadn't been planning it and leave the Inspector to discuss the matter with her bosses.

Later on I would ring and email a Complaint to both Ofsted and the Inspection Company.

It is yet another case of we must know how we must be treated and stand up for ourselves and take no nonsense. These Inspectors are just doing a job like us but it is not out fault that they may have been trained badly or just be bad at their job. We must stop treating them like the Gods that know it all and to whom we must bow. That is not the case.

Here here...

[Simona]

Well said Rickysmiths...respect is a two way system
If they do not respect us they will lose ours
ACCOUNTABILITY is what we want from Ofsted and their master the DfE.

[handeme]

To be honest if an Inspector knocked on my door unannounced and said it was for a normal inspection not one as a result of a complaint I would shut the door and ring their Company and ask for them to contact the inspector and ask them to leave because no pre contact had been made and I am on my way out and have no intention of changing that. I would then collect the children together and go out even if I hadn't been planning it and leave the Inspector to discuss the matter with her bosses.

Later on I would ring and email a Complaint to both Ofsted and the Inspection Company.

It is yet another case of we must know how we must be treated and stand up for ourselves and take no nonsense. These Inspectors are just doing a job like us but it is not out fault that they may have been trained badly or just be bad at their job. We must stop treating them like the Gods that know it all and to whom we must bow. That is not the case.

I fully agree with Rickysmiths.

We are here to provide care for the children. This care has been planned with all needs met. Should an inspector turn up and it was for a routine inspection that was not pre arranged they would be asked to leave. I have planned my day for the children, whether that be an outing or a day at home. Allowances would have been made in my planning/day with the inspector here.

I am more than happy for them to call me in advance, as a parent I would also want to be made aware of the inspector in the setting with my child.

When I kno