unannounced ofsted viits

[lilac_dragon]

OK, I understand about Mrs O turning up unannounced and that we should all be up to speed with paperwork, house spotless, children all beaming happily as they do their adult initiated activity -

But -

How would you react if they turned up as you were just going on an outing - would you disappoint the children who were all excited about going?
Or what if you were going out to a Doctors appointment?

What if - like me- you had one who was a nervous wreck in front of new people to the extent that if the visit was planned you would have made sure that that child wasn't there rather than have them traumatised.

My paperwork is in a lockable filing cabinet in the upstairs office, and Yes I could go up and get it but it wouldn't be quick, and if I left something behind I would have to go back up again. Thus taking me away from the children.

Would you ask them to come back another time?

If I knew they were coming I'd get everything into a box ready for them - when the children weren't here, and when I knew we'd be home.

How do you feel about this?

[FussyElmo]

If Ofsted did turn up and you were going on a outing you would have to disappoint the children. You would probably have to cancel the doctors appointment or go and come straight back.

I suppose seeing at the inspector will be dbs'ed you are able to leave the children with them as you fetch what she needs.

[Simona]

OK, I understand about Mrs O turning up unannounced and that we should all be up to speed with paperwork, house spotless, children all beaming happily as they do their adult initiated activity -

But -

How would you react if they turned up as you were just going on an outing - would you disappoint the children who were all excited about going?
Or what if you were going out to a Doctors appointment?

What if - like me- you had one who was a nervous wreck in front of new people to the extent that if the visit was planned you would have made sure that that child wasn't there rather than have them traumatised.

My paperwork is in a lockable filing cabinet in the upstairs office, and Yes I could go up and get it but it wouldn't be quick, and if I left something behind I would have to go back up again. Thus taking me away from the children.

Would you ask them to come back another time?

If I knew they were coming I'd get everything into a box ready for them - when the children weren't here, and when I knew we'd be home.

How do you feel about this?

Unannounced visits are triggered by complaints and Ofsted will turn up with no notice
What you ask is very important...what do we do?

I hope this will be clarified at the meetings #OfstedBigConversation...(Ofsted have been invited to attend but so far no reply)
no one has the answer and, if it happened to me, I assume I would have to cancel my plans and allow the inspector to carry her inspection or visit
This would never happen to a nursery or preschool because they are always on the premises!!

Some plans maybe difficult to alter such as a visit to the GP, as for letting the children down maybe Ofsted should be the one explaining it to them?
what if a cm was about to go and do a school 'drop off' or 'pick up'?

I have no idea what an inspector would do if the cm decided to go out and tell the inspector to come back??

I will raise that question on the 13th when I attend the London meeting...thank you for bringing it up...very useful because what the sector is trying to do is get 'clarification' on this new wave of inspections

Reporting our 'experiences' is very important ...it is also questioning Ofsted on this unwelcome new practice.

If cms want to be heard and want representation we need to speak up and join the rest of the sector in this campaign

[Helen79]

I've been wondering where we stand on refusing to let an unannounced ofsted inspector in. Just because they have a badge doesn't prove that they are genuine.
I don't think I'd allow an unannounced inspector in as it's not in the best interests of the children to have their day disrupted at short notice and I'd ask them to come back another time when I could prepare the children for the visit and make sure we had enough activities to keep us busy if we had to stay home.
Not sure what the repercussions of doing that would be though.

Some days are really hectic with school runs, playgroup, fitting in meals and naps etc so I don't plan activities everyday as we're out most of the day so if ofsted came on one of those days and we had to stay in then I'd look like a rubbish childminder.

[FussyElmo]

I've been wondering where we stand on refusing to let an unannounced ofsted inspector in. Just because they have a badge doesn't prove that they are genuine.
I don't think I'd allow an unannounced inspector in as it's not in the best interests of the children to have their day disrupted at short notice and I'd ask them to come back another time when I could prepare the children for the visit and make sure we had enough activities to keep us busy if we had to stay home.
Not sure what the repercussions of doing that would be though.

Some days are really hectic with school runs, playgroup, fitting in meals and naps etc so I don't plan activities everyday as we're out most of the day so if ofsted came on one of those days and we had to stay in then I'd look like a rubbish childminder.

I don't think we can actually legally refuse Ofsted entrance to the house. We can ring and have their identity verified but not I think refuse them.
School runs would have to taken because they wouldn't expect you to abandon a child but they would be waiting for you when they got back.

There is nothing in any guidance that says we have to right to request time to prepare for the visit

[Simona]

I don't think we can actually legally refuse Ofsted entrance to the house. We can ring and have their identity verified but not I think refuse them.
School runs would have to taken because they wouldn't expect you to abandon a child but they would be waiting for you when they got back.

There is nothing in any guidance that says we have to right to request time to prepare for the visit

Because of the nature of cminding Ofsted are allowed to give a very short notice for inspections to avoid turning up when a cm is out
This is different...we are talking about an 'unannounced' visit.

I have raised this as a concern to be tackled at the meeting and will seek clarification on this.

Any worried cm should also raise this with their representing association...apart from PLA I am not aware of any attending the meetings...it would be great if they all did as they could then inform their members that they are on the ball and seeking clarification for them

[sing-low]

If this happened, I would not allow Mrs O in until I had confirmed with Ofsted. While I did this I would probably run round tidying(!). If going out to a playground or group, I'd at least attempt to get Mrs O to come too. My argument would be that I can fulfil the EYFS while I'm out or I shouldn't be going out. I would refuse to cancel a doctor's appointment. Completely unprofessional, not fair on the doctor or other patients. Again, Mrs O can come too or stay and look at my paperwork and I'll be back as soon as possible.

[TooEarlyForGin?]

I also understand that we should all be ready for an unannounced visit. But then I would be concerned what they are judging me on, for example, on days I have planned to go to playgroup/swimming/soft play, although I have toys available, I wouldn't have any "planned" activity out as I have planned to do something else, and could see they could mark us down.

I have always felt, from the introduction of the EYFS that childminders should have their own guidance, a conversation is currently on the facebook page about us not being nursery's but being expected to have all the same amenities, although there is only one of us, and we run a different type of business (much better IMO).

I really feel we should have our own set of standards so we are not confused with bigger settings, that offer something different.

[Simona]

I also understand that we should all be ready for an unannounced visit. But then I would be concerned what they are judging me on, for example, on days I have planned to go to playgroup/swimming/soft play, although I have toys available, I wouldn't have any "planned" activity out as I have planned to do something else, and could see they could mark us down.

I have always felt, from the introduction of the EYFS that childminders should have their own guidance, a conversation is currently on the facebook page about us not being nursery's but being expected to have all the same amenities, although there is only one of us, and we run a different type of business (much better IMO).

I really feel we should have our own set of standards so we are not confused with bigger settings, that offer something different.

This is what we are trying to achieve so that Ofsted adhere to the guidelines when inspecting/visiting cms...we are not nurseries you are correct but home based and, therefore, out and about in the community

If Ofsted have moved the goal posts then we need to get that in black and white to avoid worry and speculations

It is totally unacceptable that cms should fear that knock on the door...we are speaking up but we have to be positive in our engagement and present facts that Ofsted need to look at and reflect on their practice as much as we do.

[marie33]

I had an unannounced inspection and we were all strapped in the car when she showed up . I told her they would be upset and I wasn't getting them out suggested she came with us but she said she would come back in an hour although she didn't look happy . One child in particular would have created hell
I still got a good though

[Ripeberry]

That's awful if they can just turn up when they want, even if it's not a complaint. They can make snap judgments on what they see and it will stick with you for years. So that one morning when everything is a mess and the kids are having meltdowns, that's when they'll turn up! A group setting is very different from a family home. They can apply the same rules to us. What if your husband was still at home and was trying to get ready for work? Don't think my husband would be happy about official people coming into OUR home.

[Simona]

That's awful if they can just turn up when they want, even if it's not a complaint. They can make snap judgments on what they see and it will stick with you for years. So that one morning when everything is a mess and the kids are having meltdowns, that's when they'll turn up! A group setting is very different from a family home. They can apply the same rules to us. What if your husband was still at home and was trying to get ready for work? Don't think my husband would be happy about official people coming into OUR home.

No ...inspectors turn up 'unannounced' only when it is a complaint triggered inspection/visit...not for run of the mill inspections when normally they would ascertain the cm is working, not on holiday and at home so not to waste their money

That is the rule they need to abide to until it is changed and clearly in black and white.

There are many many many good inspectors as I know some cms can testify but...they all need to have a set of guidelines they follow

[lilac_dragon]

Unannounced visits are triggered by complaints and Ofsted will turn up with no notice
What you ask is very important...what do we do?

I hope this will be clarified at the meetings #OfstedBigConversation...(Ofsted have been invited to attend but so far no reply)
no one has the answer and, if it happened to me, I assume I would have to cancel my plans and allow the inspector to carry her inspection or visit
This would never happen to a nursery or preschool because they are always on the premises!!

Some plans maybe difficult to alter such as a visit to the GP, as for letting the children down maybe Ofsted should be the one explaining it to them?
what if a cm was about to go and do a school 'drop off' or 'pick up'?

I have no idea what an inspector would do if the cm decided to go out and tell the inspector to come back??

I will raise that question on the 13th when I attend the London meeting...thank you for bringing it up...very useful because what the sector is trying to do is get 'clarification' on this new wave of inspections

Reporting our 'experiences' is very important ...it is also questioning Ofsted on this unwelcome new practice.

If cms want to be heard and want representation we need to speak up and join the rest of the sector in this campaign

I'm Diabetic, and Drs appointments aren't easy to cancel and then rebook - especially when they need to check you regularly before adjusting or issuing medication. With my luck the stress of having to cancel my appointment with Mrs O hovering in the background would probably cause my sugar levels to become unstable - just picture Mrs O leaning over my prostrate body and having to call an Ambuance!! LOL. There goes my lic

[hectors house]

No ...inspectors turn up 'unannounced' only when it is a complaint triggered inspection/visit...not for run of the mill inspections when normally they would ascertain the cm is working, not on holiday and at home so not to waste their money

That is the rule they need to abide to until it is changed and clearly in black and white.

There are many many many good inspectors as I know some cms can testify but...they all need to have a set of guidelines they follow

You say they have to be triggered by a complaint - but what about the example Sarah gave last month where an inspector was just passing an Outstanding childminder and went in and did an inspection and because the learning journals had all gone home for parents to see them, the childminding got downgraded to Satisfactory (I think).

[freckleonear]

I've heard of inspectors doing unannounced visits simply because they happened to be in the area.

[FussyElmo]

No ...inspectors turn up 'unannounced' only when it is a complaint triggered inspection/visit...not for run of the mill inspections when normally they would ascertain the cm is working, not on holiday and at home so not to waste their money

That is the rule they need to abide to until it is changed and clearly in black and white.

There are many many many good inspectors as I know some cms can testify but...they all need to have a set of guidelines they follow

A the moment it doesn't seem to be like that Simona. Quite a few cms are getting unannounced inspections without complaints.

I also think there is no rule that they have to abide to. No where does it say they have to give us notice - most do because they don't want a wasted trip.

[Simona]

Ok...so what you are saying is that the guidelines that cms should receive an inspection when informed by phone by the inspector has been changed?
what if the cm does not have children on the day Ofsted makes an appearance? will she be downgraded when she could have turned up when children are on roll...is that what they come to see? how our children are progressing?

Ofsted do have a habit of changing things as they like or at least this is their new regime...considering the stress they have put on how much cms cost to inspect why waste a trip??

I also read about a cm who was given a week's notice because she would be on holiday so the inspector agreed to inspect on her return

What we are all saying is that the goal posts have been moved and we accept that?
that is what we are going to discuss...can we keep to guidelines..if not can we have it in black and white please!

I will raise it as a concern but I will not accept changes in rules without appropriate notification...fair is fair!
Unless, of course, June O'Sullivan is correct when she asks what is the agenda behind Ofsted recent change?

[vals]

I care for a child with Autism. He is hard work, the day can be very stressful with him, I can manage but just. There is no way he would cope with a stranger being here, he would be even worse than usual, I wouldn't be able to speak to the inspector or get any paperwork out for her. It wouldn't be fair on the child to let the inspector in, and the child has to come first. Having said that,if they were at the door I am not sure if I would be brave enough to say go away!

[lilac_dragon]

I care for a child with Autism. He is hard work, the day can be very stressful with him, I can manage but just. There is no way he would cope with a stranger being here, he would be even worse than usual, I wouldn't be able to speak to the inspector or get any paperwork out for her. It wouldn't be fair on the child to let the inspector in, and the child has to come first. Having said that,if they were at the door I am not sure if I would be brave enough to say go away!

This is exactly the problem I would have!!!
And why, if I knew the Inspector was coming, I would ask for a day that he's not here. If it's an unannounced visit he seriously would be traumatised.

[Simona]

I care for a child with Autism. He is hard work, the day can be very stressful with him, I can manage but just. There is no way he would cope with a stranger being here, he would be even worse than usual, I wouldn't be able to speak to the inspector or get any paperwork out for her. It wouldn't be fair on the child to let the inspector in, and the child has to come first. Having said that,if they were at the door I am not sure if I would be brave enough to say go away!

That is why the inspector should be warned so she can take steps...that could be done if you received a call or she read your SEF which I am sure would prepare her for that

Thank you for raising this point...I will add it to my list, having said that I better start one to take with me