unannounced ofsted viits

[Mouse]

You also have to consider that if a school or nursery is given an unannounced inspection, they often last for at least a couple of days, a whole day minimum. That gives parents plenty of time to give their views.

If an inspector called on a cm, there's a chance they won't see any parents & the cm won't have had chance to get any parents' comments. Even if a cm is only given 24hrs notice it's long enough to get some parents' views in writing.

[hectors house]

I think whether planned or unplanned Ofsted inspectors should come out with us to see how we are with the children out of the house - they should see how we deal with multiple little ones and keep them safe using reins or buggies or strict rules about running off, they should see how we get children in and out of car seats and how we teach the children to shout if we forget to put on seatbelt, some of my best conversations happen with children in the car - we chat and play games. They should see how we keep an eye on children at parks and toddler groups - in many cases supervising far closer than other parents who attend do with their own children.

My paperwork is behind at the moment so wouldn't like an inspection planned or unplanned but I think the inspectors should come for a whole day from when parents drop off to when they collect so they can fully see what it is like to be a child in my setting - where I welcome them and their families into my life - not just my home! I don't see how they can make a full judgement in just a couple of hours when they seem to have their mind up before they step through the door.

[Simona]

You also have to consider that if a school or nursery is given an unannounced inspection, they often last for at least a couple of days, a whole day minimum. That gives parents plenty of time to give their views.

If an inspector called on a cm, there's a chance they won't see any parents & the cm won't have had chance to get any parents' comments. Even if a cm is only given 24hrs notice it's long enough to get some parents' views in writing.

Thank you for raising this issue...

First, of course parents' views are important so in fact Ofsted are depriving parents of the right to input their views in an inspection or even be there to meet the inspector.
Am I right in saying that Ofsted 'requires' cms to inform parents of an imminent inspection? if so Ofsted appear to be breaking their own rules

Second a cm will have time to recall any LJ that have gone out and not be downgraded because no evidence can be produced.

I have added this to the list for the meeting

[FussyElmo]

Please in no way take this next comment as causing an argument or disagreeing with anything that has been said.

But can we actually legally refuse Ofsted entry to the house if they turned up at the door once we had confirmed identity.

I only ask because I would hate for a cm to read that we could and if faced with Ofsted at the door refused entry and got into serious trouble for it

[TooEarlyForGin?]

I think whether planned or unplanned Ofsted inspectors should come out with us to see how we are with the children out of the house - they should see how we deal with multiple little ones and keep them safe using reins or buggies or strict rules about running off, they should see how we get children in and out of car seats and how we teach the children to shout if we forget to put on seatbelt, some of my best conversations happen with children in the car - we chat and play games. They should see how we keep an eye on children at parks and toddler groups - in many cases supervising far closer than other parents who attend do with their own children.

My paperwork is behind at the moment so wouldn't like an inspection planned or unplanned but I think the inspectors should come for a whole day from when parents drop off to when they collect so they can fully see what it is like to be a child in my setting - where I welcome them and their families into my life - not just my home! I don't see how they can make a full judgement in just a couple of hours when they seem to have their mind up before they step through the door.

Absolutely, again this is why childminders need their own standards and inspectors need to be trained to understand what we actually do, instead of marking people down for silly things, like one minder who was told that she wasn't giving enough attention to a 3 yo whilst bottle feeding a baby, stupid stupid stupid.

[Simona]

Please in no way take this next comment as causing an argument or disagreeing with anything that has been said.

But can we actually legally refuse Ofsted entry to the house if they turned up at the door once we had confirmed identity.

I only ask because I would hate for a cm to read that we could and if faced with Ofsted at the door refused entry and got into serious trouble for it

I believe Ofsted have a 'right to entry' but that is subject to anyone being happy the person at the door is who they say they are...hence the badge which should confirm the name of the inspector who has called you to advise a cycle inspection is due...inspectors always state who they are when they call.
If any cm is unhappy they can verify by ringing Ofsted and I am sure the inspector will understand

it takes a while to get through to Ofsted these days so be warned

For an 'unannounced' inspection ..yes they still have the right but because we have had no warning we cannot verify the person and I would say that wanting to verify means we are 'safeguarding' our children

This raises another issue...added to my list for the meeting.

I think we have opened a can of worms here...maybe worth another clarification!
Let me think and I will reflect about sending another email to Ofsted later on

[sing-low]

Please in no way take this next comment as causing an argument or disagreeing with anything that has been said.

But can we actually legally refuse Ofsted entry to the house if they turned up at the door once we had confirmed identity.

I only ask because I would hate for a cm to read that we could and if faced with Ofsted at the door refused entry and got into serious trouble for it

Good point, Fussy, and really important to say.

[rickysmiths]

You also have to consider that if a school or nursery is given an unannounced inspection, they often last for at least a couple of days, a whole day minimum. That gives parents plenty of time to give their views.

If an inspector called on a cm, there's a chance they won't see any parents & the cm won't have had chance to get any parents' comments. Even if a cm is only given 24hrs notice it's long enough to get some parents' views in writing.

I agree to some extent. However we should all now be getting regular feed back from parents and be able to demonstrate how we communicate with them. My Daily Diaries and or LJs go home every day and weekly so parents can comment and tell me what is going on at home etc. In the past I have done a parents questionnaire just before an inspection but I prefer the ongoing feedback. I do try to get parents to do some feedback for me when they leave. In all the 12 years and 4 Ofsted inspections I have had in that time none of the inspectors has made any attempt to speak to any of my parents.

[Mouse]

Please in no way take this next comment as causing an argument or disagreeing with anything that has been said.

But can we actually legally refuse Ofsted entry to the house if they turned up at the door once we had confirmed identity.

I only ask because I would hate for a cm to read that we could and if faced with Ofsted at the door refused entry and got into serious trouble for it

I've wondered this.

If I was working I doubt I could refuse entry, once I was happy with their identification (and I would phone to check).

But what if it was a day I don't work? If it was for a complaint, obviously they could come on any day, but if it was for an inspection I'd want to refuse entry as I wasn't working that day. Nothing would be set up for minding, my paperwork would be packed away, I couldn't demonstrate how I work with children because there wouldn't be any there!

And worse still...for me and the inspector...I'd probably still be in my PJs!!!

[adedwards68]

If they give some notice at least you would be expecting them. Turning up unannounced they could be anyone, they might show ID but how do we know its real?

Sent from my iPhone using Childminding Forum

[Simona]

Good news...well if you can call it that
On Linkedin someone posted this info on the inspection section.
She was delivering a 'safeguarding' session to a school today as part of the school inset day...so no children present.
As she arrived so did an inspector attempting to do an 'unannounced' inspection...she got turned away and was not happy apparently!!!

She could have checked if the school was open?
so it is happening everywhere not just to cms

I also posted our concerns over 'identification' of these inspectors who turn up at our door...so the issue has been flagged up...we need to keep at this.

[nikki thomson]

Well I work different days each week as parents work shifts and if it was a day I wasn't working then err no they are not passing my door, that's my personal time they need to stop bumping there gums and be professional. X

[Simona]

I gathered all your comments and sent another email to Ofsted last night asking about 'rights of entry' and our right to verify the identity of an inspector who just turns up.

Can I ask if anyone has rang Ofsted and asked them whether we can expect a call from an inspector when we are due a 'cycle inspection'?

would be interesting to hear what they say...if you do let us know!

[Mouse]

It'll be interesting to see what they say in response to your new email Simona.

I phoned about 3 months ago for a different query and asked about my inspection at the same time. It's 4.5 years since my last inspection, so I asked when I was likely to be due another. I didn't specifically ask if I would get a call beforehand, but the person I spoke to said I would be due an inspection sometime during this cycle and I would get a phone call asking if I was minding, which days I worked etc (ie. the standard reply).

Of course, just because they said someone will call, we now know that doesn't necessarily mean they will!

[Joan21plus]

Hi that would be me, I have an office upstairs and I am not prepared to leave my children with a stranger whilst I go and sort it out last inspection Outstanding this who knows !

[rickysmiths]

I believe Ofsted have a 'right to entry' but that is subject to anyone being happy the person at the door is who they say they are...hence the badge which should confirm the name of the inspector who has called you to advise a cycle inspection is due...inspectors always state who they are when they call.
If any cm is unhappy they can verify by ringing Ofsted and I am sure the inspector will understand

it takes a while to get through to Ofsted these days so be warned

For an 'unannounced' inspection ..yes they still have the right but because we have had no warning we cannot verify the person and I would say that wanting to verify means we are 'safeguarding' our children

This raises another issue...added to my list for the meeting.

I think we have opened a can of worms here...maybe worth another clarification!
Let me think and I will reflect about sending another email to Ofsted later on

You wouldn't ring Ofsted to confirm the Identity of an Inspector. You would ring Tribal or Prospects depending on which Company they come from.

[Simona]

You wouldn't ring Ofsted to confirm the Identity of an Inspector. You would ring Tribal or Prospects depending on which Company they come from.

Rickysmiths...I am afraid you are incorrect...please ring Ofsted yourself and ask for clarification
In fact, in a way we are all incorrect as there is a procedure to follow

I have received a reply from Ofsted regarding 'inspectors' identity or how to verify it and what to do
I will post it later when I get something else clarified within that reply.

Mouse...you are correct
Regardless of when cms were inspected in the previous cycle EYFS 2008-2012 ALL providers and cms will be inspected once in the new cycle of EYFS 2012 which finishes in 2016

This has been stated very clearly by Ofsted who have said they prioritise Inadequate and satisfactory cms and also respond to 'complaint triggered inspections'

If providers are good or outstanding they may not be in the priority lane BUT...who knows what is going on?

This was recorded in the minutes of a 17 Nov 2012 'Ofsted cms workshop' which Ofsted endorsed.
The event was held in my part of the country,,,in fact I organised it and come to think of it Rickysmiths was there I believe??

Bear with me and I will come back later

[jackie 7]

The inspectors don't come from ofsted but tribal or prospects. That is the problem. Thanks you Simone for raising it. And yes if they turned up unannounced I hope I have the forum pair to send them away.

[Simona]

The inspectors don't come from ofsted but tribal or prospects. That is the problem. Thanks you Simone for raising it. And yes if they turned up unannounced I hope I have the forum pair to send them away.

Ok ...if I am not believed I will stop this process right now and continue it for my own clarification and peace of mind....I can see this is not going to get to the aim we wanted: clarification.

Why is it a problem if the inspectors come from Tribal or Prospect? Ofsted are openly recruiting inspectors at this very minute and have said clearly those 2 companies inspect on Ofsted behalf?

I am not sure what it is meant by 'I have the forum pair to send them away?'...
cms cannot do that if the inspector's identity has been confirmed by Ofsted by following the right process....but I leave it up to you to sort out.

[Mouse]

Another post has been made on FB about an unannounced inspection. The inspector is said to have made 3 attempts to call unannounced before phoning to ask the cm to stay in the next day. It was also reported that the inspector told the cm that this was becoming more normal.

Of course, this is only info passed on in a friend of a friend, third hand way, but if it is accurate, it changes the idea that inspectors are calling unannounced simply because they happen to be in the area. It would indicate that they are deliberately aiming to carry out inspections without prior warning.

In all the years since ofsted took over I have heard of very few unannounced inspections other than for complaints and concerns. Then in the last few months I am hearing of them happening regularly. Surely this has got to be as a result of changes to policy or procedure, not just random inspectors deciding they are going to do it that way?