Urgent advice needed re: numbers

**newbie** · 04-10-2012, 06:35 AM

I currently have a variation that Ofsted gave me ages ago for 4 under 5s on a Tuesday which is still in place. One of my mums whose LO comes on a Monday only has now asked me if I could do a one off Tuesday as her other childcare (her mum) can't do it. It would mean 5 under 5 for that one day. I know I can handle it but not sure whether this would be allowed under the new rules. Any advice greatly appreciated as I need to get back to her this morning

**miffy** · 04-10-2012, 06:50 AM

I believe that you could as you currently care for the child so it would come under continuity of care - providing that the total number of children doesn't exceed 6 under 8 including your own children.

You will need to discuss with other parents and do a risk assessment showing how you will cope with that number (sleeping, eating, transporting etc).

More info in free downloads, including a comprehensive document written by Sarah707

Miffy xx

moogster1a · 04-10-2012, 06:51 AM

I'd say no.
Under the "old " rules I doubt it would have been approved.
The "new" rules are exactly the same except you apply them yourself, not OFSTED.

**Mouse** · 04-10-2012, 08:26 AM

I would say you can do it as long as you risk assess, inform all other parents etc.

I have twice had variations from Ofsted for similar cirmcumstances, although it was just for 2 half days, not full days. I don't look after any older children, so I was always within my 6 under 8 numbers.

How old are the children? If you are confident you can meet all their needs, have sufficient equipment etc, then it is perfectly manageable for a day.

**newbie** · 04-10-2012, 09:25 AM

All 5 of them are under 5 but I have minding them all for a very long time and they are very good for me. I feel completely confident that I can handle it for one day and have all the equipment I need to cope too so I personally can't see it as a problem. I just worry about Ofsted's views thats all and the new variation 'rules' are not as straightforward as they used to be and IMHO can be open to interpretation. It IS for continuation of care and is a one off so by the new 'rules' I can't see that it is a problem. But as my thread has shown, some agree with me and then others may view it as not allowed

. It's difficult to know what to do for the best

**JCrakers** · 04-10-2012, 12:02 PM

I would say if you have RA and shown all will be cared for then that's fine by the new rules. I think it states that you cannot go over 6 under 8's

But I do agree you can never be sure of these rules can you. I've got a dilemma at the moment further up the page but with no one to ask who's to say its a good decision or not??

**Rubybubbles** · 04-10-2012, 12:13 PM

Could you get hold of your development officer and ask them, at least that way you would have 'extra claification' on if yes ( I would say yes btw)

**mum24** · 04-10-2012, 12:30 PM

I know these are just educated guesses really, but you sound very confident about being able to manage the numbers, know the children very well, and if you do your risk assessments, and your other parents are happy for you to do this, then I can't see it being a problem for Ofsted.
But, this is an ambiguous situation with no one being able to say yes or no hard and fast. I suspect also if you rang Ofsted a couple of times and spoke to different advisers you would get two different answers from them too.

**nipper** · 04-10-2012, 05:08 PM

I think Ofsted won't tell you, they'll just refer you back to the EYFS as they did with me when I rang last week to check on an existing variation.

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 04-10-2012, 07:23 PM

Continuity of care says yes so follow the EYFS and you will be fine

**brillminder** · 13-10-2012, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by miffy

I believe that you could as you currently care for the child so it would come under continuity of care - providing that the total number of children doesn't exceed 6 under 8 including your own children.

You will need to discuss with other parents and do a risk assessment showing how you will cope with that number (sleeping, eating, transporting etc).

More info in free downloads, including a comprehensive document written by Sarah707

Miffy xx

Please can some one direct me to the variation document by Sarah707 please as I cannot locate it

**CH1957** · 13-10-2012, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Rubybubbles

Could you get hold of your development officer and ask them, at least that way you would have 'extra claification' on if yes ( I would say yes btw)

I asked my DO exactly the same question and she said yes, so should be ok as long as you dont go over 6 LO's.

**erinjane** · 13-10-2012, 05:25 PM

Isnt it 6 under 8 but only 3 under 5 at any one time for everyone now? depeding on space ofcourse..

**erinjane** · 13-10-2012, 05:28 PM

I think it they are school age though they are not classed as early years

**jellytots2912** · 13-10-2012, 08:05 PM

i would say definately yes as its continuity of care and its only a one off i would do as other posters have suggested and risk assess and ge parents feedbacl but for a one off i wouldnt worry too much :-) oh but you must must must make sure you stay within the 6 under 8's rule.