Example letter and form to inform parents about the new exceptions

[Bluebell]

many thanks, much clearer!

[cas2805]

A big thanks from me too x

[mayberry]

Thank you Penny

Dawn xx

[christine e]

Hi Penny Sorry didn't explain myself very well there

- what I mean is if there is ONE space can I take on two new children if they are siblings but NOT twins? I don't know what the ruling on current variations on this is because I have never had to look into it!!

Thank you

I would interpret this as a No. It is my understanding that the 'rule' for twins only applies to babies in that if a parent approached you to care for twins aged 6 months and you were currently caring for a 2 year old you could grant yourself a variation to care for more than one child aged under 1. If you were caring for two 2 year olds and a parent came along with twins under 1 then I interpret that you should say no because it is new business and caring for the twins would take you over the 3 under 5's, if the twins were siblings of one of the 2 year olds then it could be a Yes. So if you have one space and a parent comes along with siblings even if they are twins I interpret that it should be a NO.

[Penny1959]

I would interpret this as a No. It is my understanding that the 'rule' for twins only applies to babies in that if a parent approached you to care for twins aged 6 months and you were currently caring for a 2 year old you could grant yourself a variation to care for more than one child aged under 1. If you were caring for two 2 year olds and a parent came along with twins under 1 then I interpret that you should say no because it is new business and caring for the twins would take you over the 3 under 5's, if the twins were siblings of one of the 2 year olds then it could be a Yes. So if you have one space and a parent comes along with siblings even if they are twins I interpret that it should be a NO.

It is interesting that we all read the same thing differently

I use the following sentence from the Ofsted guidance sheet

We will normally interpret an exceptional circumstance as relating to the continuity of care for children and/or where sibling children are not babies.

It does not say can not relate to new business - it says or when sibling children are not babies. I read this to say if siblings need to stay together then you can apply a exception.

I also refer to the email I had from Ofsted where it says that Ofsted intend to retain the same flexibility as now - and I have personally been granted variations in the past to :- care for siblings that were new business and I only had one space, and to take on a cousin of a current child even though I did not have a space at that time.

Of course it is expected that we would return to normal ratio's as soon as possible - and part of our decision making has to be about how long this exception will be needed.

However Christine has raised a very important point - we must all be certain that we are happy that we are meet all the requirements of the EYFS 12. In this case Christine would not e happy that she was meeting them so would not apply an exception in these circumstances. I would be happy (confiden) that I was - so I would apply an exception. Bluelion (and everyone else) must ensure that they are PERSONALLY sure that they are meeting all the requirements of EYFS 12 before applying an exception.

At the end of the day - it is our own decision -not that of me, Sarah or anyone else on the forum, of our development worker or any other advisor - or indeed of Ofsted (although of course Ofsted will act if we have made the wrong decision) - so as it is our own 'head on the block' we must be sure

Penny

[christine e]

It is interesting that we all read the same thing differently

I use the following sentence from the Ofsted guidance sheet

We will normally interpret an exceptional circumstance as relating to the continuity of care for children and/or where sibling children are not babies.

It does not say can not relate to new business - it says or when sibling children are not babies. I read this to say if siblings need to stay together then you can apply a exception.

I also refer to the email I had from Ofsted where it says that Ofsted intend to retain the same flexibility as now - and I have personally been granted variations in the past to :- care for siblings that were new business and I only had one space, and to take on a cousin of a current child even though I did not have a space at that time.

Of course it is expected that we would return to normal ratio's as soon as possible - and part of our decision making has to be about how long this exception will be needed.

However Christine has raised a very important point - we must all be certain that we are happy that we are meet all the requirements of the EYFS 12. In this case Christine would not e happy that she was meeting them so would not apply an exception in these circumstances. I would be happy (confiden) that I was - so I would apply an exception. Bluelion (and everyone else) must ensure that they are PERSONALLY sure that they are meeting all the requirements of EYFS 12 before applying an exception.

At the end of the day - it is our own decision -not that of me, Sarah or anyone else on the forum, of our development worker or any other advisor - or indeed of Ofsted (although of course Ofsted will act if we have made the wrong decision) - so as it is our own 'head on the block' we must be sure

Penny

Hi Penny

I have taken the exert

1.Paragraph 3.29 in the EYFS also allows childminders to care for more children in the early years age group through an overarching ‘exceptional circumstances’ statement. We will normally interpret an exceptional circumstance as relating to the continuity of care for children and/or where sibling children are not babies. These are times where it may be in children’s best interests to be with their brothers and sisters who are already with a childminder, or to remain with the same childminder where circumstances may change the number of children the childminder can care for, such as a parent extending their working hours. This type of arrangement would end when either the parent adjusted their hours or a child left the childminder’s care. It does not give the permission to operate with more children in the early years age group at all times.


Re the bit in bold it states where their brothers and sisters are already with a childminder.

I really believe this whole variation situation is going to get totally out of hand when it is down to each individuals interpretation and of course Ofsted Inspector's interpretations!

[Penny1959]

[QUOTE=christine e;1138523]Hi Penny

I have taken the exert

1.Paragraph 3.29 in the EYFS also allows childminders to care for more children in the early years age group through an overarching ‘exceptional circumstances’ statement. We will normally interpret an exceptional circumstance as relating to the continuity of care for children and/or where sibling children are not babies. These are times where it may be in children’s best interests to be with their brothers and sisters who are already with a childminder, or to remain with the same childminder where circumstances may change the number of children the childminder can care for, such as a parent extending their working hours. This type of arrangement would end when either the parent adjusted their hours or a child left the childminder’s care. It does not give the permission to operate with more children in the early years age group at all times.


Re the bit in bold it states where their brothers and sisters are already with a childminder.

I really believe this whole variation situation is going to get totally out of hand when it is down to each individuals interpretation and of course Ofsted Inspector's interpretations![/QUOTE]

I agree completely with you on that point Christine - it will be a mess.
Everyone will apply own understanding - and even if done completely above board and without any intention to break conditions of registrations - and only to meet the needs of parents - may come unstuck.

I can see that some will decide it is just not worth the risk and will never apply an exception - just in case

And then there will be those who will just take on more children without even trying to understand the 'rules' - just to bring in more income.

Oh and to be clear re taking on siblings when only have one place - as stated in my reply to Bluelion - this should only be considered if parents can not find the specific care they need elsewhere - and should not be done without considering all other requirements of EYFS 12

Penny

[catminder]

Thank you Penny, that is really helpful

Alison x

[christine e]

[QUOTE=Penny1959;1138558]

Hi Penny

I have taken the exert

1.Paragraph 3.29 in the EYFS also allows childminders to care for more children in the early years age group through an overarching ‘exceptional circumstances’ statement. We will normally interpret an exceptional circumstance as relating to the continuity of care for children and/or where sibling children are not babies. These are times where it may be in children’s best interests to be with their brothers and sisters who are already with a childminder, or to remain with the same childminder where circumstances may change the number of children the childminder can care for, such as a parent extending their working hours. This type of arrangement would end when either the parent adjusted their hours or a child left the childminder’s care. It does not give the permission to operate with more children in the early years age group at all times.


Re the bit in bold it states where their brothers and sisters are already with a childminder.

I really believe this whole variation situation is going to get totally out of hand when it is down to each individuals interpretation and of course Ofsted Inspector's interpretations![/QUOTE]

I agree completely with you on that point Christine - it will be a mess.
Everyone will apply own understanding - and even if done completely above board and without any intention to break conditions of registrations - and only to meet the needs of parents - may come unstuck.

I can see that some will decide it is just not worth the risk and will never apply an exception - just in case

And then there will be those who will just take on more children without even trying to understand the 'rules' - just to bring in more income.

Oh and to be clear re taking on siblings when only have one place - as stated in my reply to Bluelion - this should only be considered if parents can not find the specific care they need elsewhere - and should not be done without considering all other requirements of EYFS 12

Penny

So where does it say that you could take on siblings as new business if you only have one place? - I am not being picky I just want to understand it

[sarah707]

[QUOTE=christine e;1138561]

So where does it say that you could take on siblings as new business if you only have one place? - I am not being picky I just want to understand it

I have no idea on this one Christine - it is not a rule I have heard of.

It's not in the EYFS or in any of the literature I have received from / conversations I have had with Ofsted.

Someone did ask me about whether twins take up 1 or 2 spaces and I checked with Ofsted and the answer was clear - each child is unique and takes up 1 space.

I think Penny means if you are asked to care (on different days - for continuity of care) for sibling babies and the babies are twins and you have space in your under 5s ratios then you can take them both on.... but I might be wrong.

Hth

[christine e]

[QUOTE=sarah707;1138567]

I have no idea on this one Christine - it is not a rule I have heard of.

It's not in the EYFS or in any of the literature I have received from / conversations I have had with Ofsted.

Someone did ask me about whether twins take up 1 or 2 spaces and I checked with Ofsted and the answer was clear - each child is unique and takes up 1 space.

I think Penny means if you are asked to care (on different days - for continuity of care) for sibling babies and the babies are twins and you have space in your under 5s ratios then you can take them both on.... but I might be wrong.

Hth

Getting a bit confusing with all these quotes been back and checked on posts and Bluelion asked 'could she take on two new children who were siblings but not twins' and below is Penny's reply

Sorry - did not read properly

So again I think it will be as now (but remember this is just my personal understanding)

The answer is yes to siblings - provided there is a very good reason why using you - such as no one else offers the times that parent needs, or maybe you speak their language, or provide transport to from home etc.- in other words they could not find anywhere else that met their needs

In all cases - it should be exceptional not the norm - and you certainly could not advertise that able to take on siblings when only have one place

Hope I have explained that ok - if not ask again

Penny

I would say NO because this is new business - but we all seem to be interpreting things differently!

[Winnie]

any chance someone could put it in Word pretty please....i can not open docx

bumpety bump

[Chimps Childminding]

[QUOTE=christine e;1138570]

Getting a bit confusing with all these quotes been back and checked on posts and Bluelion asked 'could she take on two new children who were siblings but not twins' and below is Penny's reply

Sorry - did not read properly

So again I think it will be as now (but remember this is just my personal understanding)

The answer is yes to siblings - provided there is a very good reason why using you - such as no one else offers the times that parent needs, or maybe you speak their language, or provide transport to from home etc.- in other words they could not find anywhere else that met their needs

In all cases - it should be exceptional not the norm - and you certainly could not advertise that able to take on siblings when only have one place

Hope I have explained that ok - if not ask again

Penny

I would say NO because this is new business - but we all seem to be interpreting things differently!

I see it the same as you!!! If you had a mindee who's parents then had twins and you only had 1 space available that would be ok! But to take on 2 new children (who themselves are siblings, but NOT siblings of a child already in your care) then this wouldn't be allowed!!

Thanks for the letter/form Penny, really helpful

[Penny1959]

[QUOTE=christine e;1138561]

So where does it say that you could take on siblings as new business if you only have one place? - I am not being picky I just want to understand it

Hi Christine

I know you are not being nit picking - and like the rest of us you are trying to get your head round it all

In this instance we are all taking a different understanding - and as I have repeatedly said it is just my understanding
So again I think it will be as now (but remember this is just my personal understanding)

So from my previous post -

The answer is yes to siblings - provided there is a very good reason why using you - such as no one else offers the times that parent needs, or maybe you speak their language, or provide transport to from home etc.- in other words they could not find anywhere else that met their needs


In all cases - it should be exceptional not the norm - and you certainly could not advertise that able to take on siblings when only have one place

You are right it does not specifically say so anywhere - but EYFS gives us the flexibility to meet parents needs - and I am applying my personal take on this - if no one else can meet the parents requirements then I believe you could take siblings on (providing meeting all other requirements of EYFS 12)

In my opinion - and it is only my opinion - I think it is more honest and more professional to make the decision to take on both children from day one - rather than to say to the parent - well I will take on one of the children now - and maybe your friend / relative / other childminder can have the second one - and it does not work out - I will then apply an exception to take on second one (which as you point out is mentioned in the guidance document)

And I am sure a few people already do that now and have for years - start one child - then apply for a variation to take the second child.

As I say only my opinion - and I shall be applying this type of exception - if it ever happens

Why put a child through separation from a sibling ? Why create extra stress and hassle for the parent?

Why not just try to help the parent find alternative childcare for both children - and if you can't to do a full assessment of all children's needs and all requirements of EYFS 12 - and if confident can meet these apply a variation to take second child from day one.

I would say that was in the children's best interests.

BUT please do take on board this is my understanding - my reasoning - and not yours - if your understanding is different to mine - you must go with your understanding and your decision.

Penny

[Penny1959]

bumpety bump

Opps sorry - forgot

It is in word but a newer version - I post again in an older format - let me know if still can't read it

Penny

[Penny1959]

My documents in an older version of word

Penny

[loocyloo]

thank you penny.

very helpful. i had written a similar letter, but your letter makes sense

xxx

[Bluebell]

Sorry!! didn't mean to cause confusion and its probably me that's nit-picking because I was picking up on something Penny had written earlier in the thread and wanted to clarify my understanding of it.

I do not require any 'exceptions' at this present time but I am sure it won't be long - I've been minding full time for less than a year and have had 3 variations already!

I want to make sure I completely understand the guidelines because it does seem it is open to interpretation.
But as Penny says although we can ask advice and opinions the only person who is now responsible is us and the main rule is ensuring the children's safety and wellbeing.

As Penny has lots of experience her capabilities (and therefore interpretation of the rules and what is manageable) will be different from mine - and she has prescedence from variations granted to her that she can base decisions on.

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my ongoing queries I'm probably fretting more than I need to!!

[Penny1959]

As we have several differing views on taking on siblings when only have one space - and I would hate anyone to make a decision based on my personal view (if that view is not correct)

I have emailed my contact at Ofsted for clarification - I have had an automatic reply to say the person is on annual leave - so will be a couple of weeks at least before I would except a response. Once I do get a response I will post it so we will all know one way or another - and if I am wrong in my understanding I will apologise - and if my understanding is correct then at least you can be reassured that Ofsted agree with me.

I have copied Sarah into my email so that she will hopefully see the response.


Penny

[KarenM]

Can I also ask about using assistants. I have two assistants so am covered at all times during the working day, and had an increase in numbers to 4 under 5 when working with either of them. Can I now increase my numbers without having to apply for a variation one I've measured space, ra etc and spoken to parents? I have one child whose parent keeps asking when I'm going to expand so her son can come more hours.