Swindon Childminding - Bad experience

**Redstart2** · 26-06-2012, 10:28 AM

I am interested in hearing any negative experiences from childminders in North Swindon. Without discussing all in an open forum I have had a nightmare of a time with a particular childminder. So much so that I am currently having to take the childminder through court. What I am trying to establish is if any other people have had bad experiences with this childminder.

I would be grateful for any contact with experiences youve had and will happily talk by email.

Thanks in advance.

**sarah707** · 26-06-2012, 05:09 PM

Welcome to the forum.

I am sorry you have had a bad time with a childminder.

If there are any issues we can help with please let us know.

You can always complain to Ofsted if you have concerns about a childminder who is not meeting the requirements of the Eyfs - 0300 123 1231.

xx

**Ripeberry** · 26-06-2012, 06:22 PM

If they are that bad they would not be on this Forum for a start and I would not be happy to think that anyone on here would 'gossip' about any particular CM.
Any complaints should go to Ofsted.

**Erika** · 26-06-2012, 07:55 PM

This is a forum which is primarily aimed at supporting others in the childminding profession. As such, it is unlikely that you will find people who have had negative experiences with your former minder. That doesn't mean non chilminders aren't welcome (well I hope not, I'm not a childminder!). I simply mean that other childminders are not likely to have had the experience you are after in relation to this particular person.

Other Childminders who may have minded or presently be minding children who may have been under this childminders care would not be able to contact you about this, even if they are aware of it because they have a duty to maintain confidentiality in regard to private discussions with parents unless there is a welfare concern in repsect of children in which case they can only disclose to the relevant authorities.

There is of course the additional risk people would consider about contacting you in general - nobody knows who you are, what the nature of your complaint is or how you intend to use the information that you hope to obtain from people about this childminder.

You mention that you are going to court. If you intend to use other people's experiences to demonstrate 'bad character' of the childminder to the court, this will not work. Courts are not like what you see on TV. There are very strict limitations on admissibility of evidence. Information obtained from a third party cannot be used in court; it's inadmissible because it is considered 'hearsay', not 'evidence'. If the person is prepared to come to court as a witness of course it would then move on from hearsay - but it is still not evidence of your complaint; it's only testimony of the experience of another individual with the childminder. The court will be concerned only with the dispute between you and the childminder and the evidence which surrounds that.

However, if you are prepared to tell us the nature of the issues you are having (personal details ommitted) we may be able to provide you with some advice.

**Redstart2** · 27-06-2012, 08:33 AM

Apologies, I do realise its difficult to comment without much info. My experience is that I had a fantastic childminder who clearly loves children and is very good for them. Unfortunately we had to change when our second child arrived simply as our existing childminder could not accommodate both children. We met with someone we thought appeared very good. Said all the right things and had been a childminder in excess of ten years. We signed a contract and paid a deposit for a place to start three months later. About 700 which I thought was a lot but paid anyway. Within a week I had spoken to three other plarents all of whom had big issue with the childminder services previously. We spoke to Ofsted and discovered there were five registered complaints since 2007 most of which were not on the website. They included having too many children in her care on two occasions within six months. Along with inspections there are seven instances where registration requirements have not been met. We decided because of this and the fact despite discussions none of this was disclosed we could not use this childminder. We notified her eleven days after the contract was signed and we have been refused the deposit back. On being asked about some of the complaints we have been lied to. I am not for complaining about childminder as the vast majority are absolutely fantastic and provide a great service. I am just incredibly frustrated at the situation we are now in. I have raised my concerns with Ofsted and await their response. Ideally I would like to speak with the people who made prior complaints as I know the reports from Ofsted are quite vague. I find that if people have a concern then it is not always raised however if they are aware of existing concerns then they are more likely to come forward hence my plea. I understand that childminder is a difficult job and one that quite honestly I could not do. Some parents must be difficult to deal with, and worse than the children. At the same time I do not want anyone else having the experience that I have had.

Thanks for taking the time to read all this.

**Mummits** · 27-06-2012, 09:32 AM

If your "nightmare" involves her significantly harming your children, you will probably be better referring the matter to OFSTED and/or the police and letting them pursue it, rather than trying to take it to court yourself. It can be very difficult to win a civil case when the proper course of action would have been to bring a criminal prosecution, which you will not be able to do personally, or after a criminal prosecution has failed.

If on the other hand it is a contractual or financial matter, OFSTED will not get involved as that is outside their powers. I doubt whether police would be interested unless it is a matter of fraud.

Without knowing the substance of your disagreement, it is hard to judge whether it might be feasible to resolve through discussion or arbitration, but asking your local family services to arbitrate might be another option to possibly risky and expensive legal action.

**Ripeberry** · 27-06-2012, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Redstart2

Apologies, I do realise its difficult to comment without much info. My experience is that I had a fantastic childminder who clearly loves children and is very good for them. Unfortunately we had to change when our second child arrived simply as our existing childminder could not accommodate both children. We met with someone we thought appeared very good. Said all the right things and had been a childminder in excess of ten years. We signed a contract and paid a deposit for a place to start three months later. About 700 which I thought was a lot but paid anyway. Within a week I had spoken to three other plarents all of whom had big issue with the childminder services previously. We spoke to Ofsted and discovered there were five registered complaints since 2007 most of which were not on the website. They included having too many children in her care on two occasions within six months. Along with inspections there are seven instances where registration requirements have not been met. We decided because of this and the fact despite discussions none of this was disclosed we could not use this childminder. We notified her eleven days after the contract was signed and we have been refused the deposit back. On being asked about some of the complaints we have been lied to. I am not for complaining about childminder as the vast majority are absolutely fantastic and provide a great service. I am just incredibly frustrated at the situation we are now in. I have raised my concerns with Ofsted and await their response. Ideally I would like to speak with the people who made prior complaints as I know the reports from Ofsted are quite vague. I find that if people have a concern then it is not always raised however if they are aware of existing concerns then they are more likely to come forward hence my plea. I understand that childminder is a difficult job and one that quite honestly I could not do. Some parents must be difficult to deal with, and worse than the children. At the same time I do not want anyone else having the experience that I have had.

Thanks for taking the time to read all this.

Unfortunately in this case Ofsted will not be interested as its contractual. If the contract says that a deposit will not be refunded if you change your mind then there's not much you can do about it

**snufflepuff** · 27-06-2012, 10:01 AM

So are you taking her to court because you want your £700 deposit back?

VINASOL · 27-06-2012, 10:06 AM

This does seem to be a contractual issue: you want the £700 deposit paid back from the child minder because of previous complaints made against her (I assume that these complaints were upheld by Ofsted) that she did not make you aware of (which she should have done).

Unfortunately, Ofsted will not get involved with this side of things and if you cannot get your money back from this child minder then court seems to be the only way to go (how is the deposit worded in your contract?)

Tbh I don't think other parents' views of this CM will have any bearing on your case because your child/ren haven't actually been cared for by this CM and at the end of the day it's about wanting your deposit back.

I hope that you find another good (like your first) CM.

**angeldelight** · 27-06-2012, 10:12 AM

It's seems an awful lot of complaints to me

It seems odd considering these that she's actually still minding if she really was that bad?

Ofsted are aware of the complaints you say so she would have to make sure her procedures following any complaints were up to the correct standards and followed through,Ofsted would have made sure of this,no way would she still be allowed to mind otherwise.

So maybe when you went to see her when she said all the right things to you she was actually genuine?She's been a childminder for ten years you say

She must be doing something right then?

Angel xxx

**rickysmiths** · 27-06-2012, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Mummits

If your "nightmare" involves her significantly harming your children, you will probably be better referring the matter to OFSTED and/or the police and letting them pursue it, rather than trying to take it to court yourself. It can be very difficult to win a civil case when the proper course of action would have been to bring a criminal prosecution, which you will not be able to do personally, or after a criminal prosecution has failed.

If on the other hand it is a contractual or financial matter, OFSTED will not get involved as that is outside their powers. I doubt whether police would be interested unless it is a matter of fraud.

Without knowing the substance of your disagreement, it is hard to judge whether it might be feasible to resolve through discussion or arbitration, but asking your local family services to arbitrate might be another option to possibly risky and expensive legal action.

The children have never been in the care of the childminder. This parent just wants her Deposit back.

**loocyloo** · 27-06-2012, 10:43 AM

i'm curious.

are the complaints listed on the childminders registration form on the ofsted website.

if not, then i believe that they not upheld, which means ofsted did not agree/find cause with the complaint.

although i think once upheld complaints are 5 years old, they are removed from view, although will i think, remain on file.

if ofsted did find cause for complaint, then the CM will have had to put things right, before being able to continue to childmind. ofsted will have made sure.

i am just wondering why you didn't look up details/read before agreeing care.

good luck with your case.

**rickysmiths** · 27-06-2012, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by VINASOL

This does seem to be a contractual issue: you want the £700 deposit paid back from the child minder because of previous complaints made against her (I assume that these complaints were upheld by Ofsted) that she did not make you aware of (which she should have done).

Unfortunately, Ofsted will not get involved with this side of things and if you cannot get your money back from this child minder then court seems to be the only way to go (how is the deposit worded in your contract?)

Tbh I don't think other parents' views of this CM will have any bearing on your case because your child/ren haven't actually been cared for by this CM and at the end of the day it's about wanting your deposit back.

I hope that you find another good (like your first) CM.

This is the bit I don't understand. If the complaints are not listed on the website then it means they have not been upheld by Ofsted. The childminder has to keep a record of them but does not have to tell a prospective parent because they have not been upheld. If she has gone over numbers as this parent states she has been told or broken other terms of her registration these are undeniable breaches and would be an Upheld Complaint and be listed on the website with the cms Report (tough they are removed after 5yrs) and the parent would have been able to see them.

I am highly suspicious of what this parent is saying because if the complaints are not listed and not Upheld Ofsted would never discuss them with a third party who was not involved in them.

It seems to me that it is a simple issue on what we have been told.

The parents signed a Contract, paid a Deposit, changed their mind about the childminder (the reason actually doesn't matter) and is mad because they have lost their Deposit.

Well I'm sorry tough, if that was a condition when you signed the Contract that is what you agreed to and one of the reasons a cm takes a Deposit is to safeguard themselves against a parent who changes their mind.

It sounds from the information that has been given that the parents wants to dig some dirt with which to beat a childminder she has not used.

I don't see how posting on this Forum she could possibly expect to find out anything. Even if we knew who she was talking about any information we might have would be confidential. Also with respect we don't know the Poster from Adam so again could not disclose potentially incriminating information about another childminder without seeking Legal advise ourselves.

I suspect if this is the only reason the parent is going to court then as long as the cms Contract is good she won't stand a chance.

Someone else had mentioned Hearsay, well if this parent has not used the cm what complaint can she have from her own experience? The cm is still registered with Ofsted and so obviously considered by them to be a suitable person to care for children. They will have investigated the complaints thoroughly and if they have decided there is no evidence to support the complaint then they do not Uphold it why would they. We all know that malicious complaints are made by parents and others for all sorts of reasons but often ones to do with money rater than care.

I hope this poor cm has some good support, with someone launching a case like this against her, she will need it goodness knows how she is feeling.

**rickysmiths** · 27-06-2012, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by loocyloo

i'm curious.

are the complaints listed on the childminders registration form on the ofsted website.

if not, then i believe that they not upheld, which means ofsted did not agree/find cause with the complaint.

although i think once upheld complaints are 5 years old, they are removed from view, although will i think, remain on file.

if ofsted did find cause for complaint, then the CM will have had to put things right, before being able to continue to childmind. ofsted will have made sure.

i am just wondering why you didn't look up details/read before agreeing care.

good luck with your case.

Absolutely

**mama2three** · 27-06-2012, 11:06 AM

redstart sorry you have had a negative experience .
It seems that the court really are the best ones to get to the bottom of whether the cm held back any information from you which she should have given before the contracts were signed.
£700 deposit isnt excessive for 2 children , and many of us have it written into our contracts that this is non-refundable should you not take the place up.
It is fortunate that you found out these things before placing your children in her care if you have such misgivings. But i dont understand how complaints which werent on the website are relevant as these have not been upheld. they have been investigated by ofsted and the cm was operating within the registration , doing nothing wrong. Look at the most recent report , what does it say - the cms practice may be good but she misunderstood the numbers ( it happens) - or she may be awful and regularly over her numbers - this will be clearer from the wording on her report.
.

**rickysmiths** · 27-06-2012, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Redstart2

Apologies, I do realise its difficult to comment without much info. My experience is that I had a fantastic childminder who clearly loves children and is very good for them. Unfortunately we had to change when our second child arrived simply as our existing childminder could not accommodate both children. We met with someone we thought appeared very good. Said all the right things and had been a childminder in excess of ten years. We signed a contract and paid a deposit for a place to start three months later. About 700 which I thought was a lot but paid anyway. Within a week I had spoken to three other plarents all of whom had big issue with the childminder services previously. We spoke to Ofsted and discovered there were five registered complaints since 2007 most of which were not on the website. They included having too many children in her care on two occasions within six months. Along with inspections there are seven instances where registration requirements have not been met. We decided because of this and the fact despite discussions none of this was disclosed we could not use this childminder. We notified her eleven days after the contract was signed and we have been refused the deposit back. On being asked about some of the complaints we have been lied to. I am not for complaining about childminder as the vast majority are absolutely fantastic and provide a great service. I am just incredibly frustrated at the situation we are now in. I have raised my concerns with Ofsted and await their response. Ideally I would like to speak with the people who made prior complaints as I know the reports from Ofsted are quite vague. I find that if people have a concern then it is not always raised however if they are aware of existing concerns then they are more likely to come forward hence my plea. I understand that childminder is a difficult job and one that quite honestly I could not do. Some parents must be difficult to deal with, and worse than the children. At the same time I do not want anyone else having the experience that I have had.

Thanks for taking the time to read all this.

But they must be being met now or she would not still be registered by Ofsted. If they have not been upheld by Ofsted then they will have investigated and discovered that she was meeting all their requirements. If a complaint is not upheld then the cm does not have to tell you about it because there was found not to be an issue.

It would be like expecting someone who had been questioned about a murder and then released because it was found they were not a murderer, to be expected to divulge that information for the rest of their lives and of course they would not and why should they.

It is exactly the same for this cm. If unfounded complaints were made against her then she will have gone through a lengthy investigation by Ofsted at the time and would have had to produce a lot of evidence and information, Ofsted do not take complaints lightly.

It seems to me you are actually questioning Ofsteds ability to Regulate Childminders aren't you to justify your wanting your Deposit back. Is it really worth all the time and heartbreak and money for the sake of a £700 non returnable Deposit?

**nikki thomson** · 27-06-2012, 11:51 AM

I'm going to disagree with the vast majority of posts on here, looking at it from a parents view point not a cm.
If I was going to leave my children in the care of a complete stranger and I found out there had been several complaints about her then no matter whether they were upheld or not and whether she seemed nice there's no way I would leave them with her.
Now I appreciate the mum paid £700 deposit and as non of these issues were disclosed she feels kind of mislead and wants her money back I would as well but if the contract said non refundable then on that issue I think it may be difficult.
I also appreciate that cm do get malicious complaints made against them which are completely untrue upset the said cm and I've read on hear about some of them and it's just awful but as I said as a mother I would be the same in all honesty and I think alot of cm on here who are parents deep down if they wern't in this profession would do the same.
As for £700 well as a cm I personally wouldn't keep it but that's just me, I wouldn't feel right keeping it, I don't ask for deposits or retainers so I would never be in that position anyway.

BucksCM · 27-06-2012, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by rickysmiths

But they must be being met now or she would not still be registered by Ofsted. If they have not been upheld by Ofsted then they will have investigated and discovered that she was meeting all their requirements. If a complaint is not upheld then the cm does not have to tell you about it because there was found not to be an issue.

It would be like expecting someone who had been questioned about a murder and then released because it was found they were not a murderer, to be expected to divulge that information for the rest of their lives and of course they would not and why should they.

It is exactly the same for this cm. If unfounded complaints were made against her then she will have gone through a lengthy investigation by Ofsted at the time and would have had to produce a lot of evidence and information, Ofsted do not take complaints lightly.

It seems to me you are actually questioning Ofsteds ability to Regulate Childminders aren't you to justify your wanting your Deposit back. Is it really worth all the time and heartbreak and money for the sake of a £700 non returnable Deposit?

I have to disagree here RS. I know of a cm who repeatedly had the same actions on 3 of her reports, to "maintain a daily record of the names of the children looked after on the premises and their hours of attendance"
"devise a written statement of the procedures to be followed for
the protection of children, intended to safeguard children being
cared for from abuse or neglect (Arrangements for
Safeguarding Children" "make the following information available to parents: copies of the written statements of safeguarding procedures and
complaints procedures." "Ofsted is taking enforcement action to safeguard the welfare of children." was written at the end of the 2008 report BUT at no point was she closed down!! Not allowed under 5's but still minding and getting new people in...she doesn't show them her ofsted reports though...and I thought this was a requirement!! If I read them as a parent i wouldn't go near her with a barge pole!

It does raise the question of whether the op was given refrences etc and actually followed them up?

VINASOL · 27-06-2012, 12:00 PM

Our local after school club has had lots of upheld complaints (one even from their own compliance team who complained

)...they are still open and running...still getting children in despite safeguarding issues; health and safety; employing appropriate people...the list goes on....and they are not providing copies to parents (I was never given copies); I happened to bump into an inspector one day (just after I pulled out my own child from there) who said "Ofsted is not in the business of closing childcare providers down; we will work with them again and again to make sure they get it right"....

**Bridey** · 27-06-2012, 12:01 PM

As professional registered childminders, we know how we feel about contractual disputes but our comments are not going to help and I am wondering if we ought to step back from this conversation? The original poster has already stated that she holds childminders in general in very high regard and I would hate for anything we say to change her mind on that