before and after school

[Mouse]

Mouse, it's my understanding that, until the child actually starts school full-time, they are still in your early years ratio of 3 children. Once they are start school full-time (so after they have completed the settling in period at school and are attending for the full school day), then they can be counted in your 5-8s.

(I'd hate to see anyone getting pulled up at Inspection in May, June, July or August for having 4 EY children just because one is starting school full-time sometime in September the same year.)

Am I right or have I misunderstood?

In addition, we'd still have to assess this 4 year old until 31st August after his/her fifth birthday (EYFS paperwork), but then we can stop (if we choose to). Am I right in this as well? Can't believe I'm confused on this after all this time minding! (Bring back the old certificates/variations I say! Who needs this confusion?)

Thanks,

L

They only count as a 'rising 5' once they are at school for full days. For some children that's straight away at the beginning of Sept (if the school takes them straight in full time). For some it might not be right until the end of Sept, or even into October if the school does a staggered start or an extended settling in period. It is important to check when they will actually be at school full time as it can impact on any new starters you have in Sept. For example, I have 3 EYs children on a Wednesday, 2 of them are going to school in Sept. I have a new baby lined up to start in Sept, but won't be able to have them until at least one of the current EYs children is in full time school and no longer counted in my EYs numbers.

No one should really be using the 'rising 5' clause before September as the younger children won't be in school then. I know some people try to justify it as saying the children count as a rising 5 once they have left nursery (and at one time we could actually count them as rising 5 in the summer holidays before they started school), but the EYFS framework is quite specific that they have to be in full time school.

Section 3.40 of the framework says that for before/after school care and holiday provision:

Providers do not need to meet the learning and development requirements in Section 1. However, practitioners should discuss with parents and/or carers (and other practitioners/providers as appropriate, including school staff/teachers) the support they intend to offer.

I take this to mean that if you look after reception children before/after school and in the holidays you don't need to do observations, assessment and planning.

[lollipop kid]

Thanks, Mouse.

Your response makes it very clear.

(I'm not in this situation yet, thankfully, but it doesn't harm to have your ducks in a row for when the time comes!)



All the best,

L

[greenfaerie]

Can anyone help me with what is expected of me currently? I am doing before and after school care for a child in preschool. She is in school from 8:50- 15:10. I have set her up a learning journey and intend to observe and plan for the small time that she's here and I'm counting her in my early years ratio. Is this right? She starts Reception in September, so my understanding is that she will be a Rising 5 from then, giving me a free space.

So my question is, does it only count as a full school day when they are in reception and not in a preschool located in a school? And again, section 3.40 was mentioned earlier as saying that before/after school don't have to meet L&D requirements, is this also only from Reception?

My confusion comes from some preschools keeping the same hours as reception and being connected to the reception class, seeming very much like school.

[greenfaerie]

I've started a new thread to see if someone can help me with my query.

[TinyTinker]

I have a set rate for mornings with 2 options 7.30 start with breakfast, or 8am start without breakfast - and then an after school set amount which lasts until 5.30pm, if they want before 7.30 or after 6pm I add on the difference at my normal hourly rate! hope that makes sense.