Awkward situation -Not sure what to do?

**GemSar** · 11-02-2012, 06:48 AM

Hi there all,
I really hope you can help me but please bear with me as its a bit of a long one.
We had a child start with us 8 months ago, in the under 5 years catergory, they were 5 days a week.
Everything was going ok for the first few weeks and then we started to both feel that there may be some sort of safeguarding issue afoot.

There are many little things that just made us wonder if this was a safeguarding issue so we docmented it all.
Now the problem is that the child has been taken out of our care this week. The parent has never complained or been unhappy with our services. When asking for feedback they felt that we were undermining them and trying to tell them how to bring up their child.
This has now left me in torment because to us there was an issue and we were trying very hard to subtly say something, without being rude o r taking it further.
Now the child has gone I dont know where we stand and if we shoudl contact safeguarding or if this is not really a safeguarding issue and as we are new to this that we are going to get many more parents like this and we should not challenge other peoples ways of bringing up their children.

If someone could help us we would be so grateful as its really on my mind and this is the second night with no sleep!

Thankyou

< Note from moderator - removed possibly identifying information from post >

**rickysmiths** · 11-02-2012, 10:25 AM

It is very difficult to advise without knowing more detail and you can't post that on a public forum.

Generally if you are sure that the issues identified are child protection issues and the child has been withdrawn from you care from what you say it was without notice and you feel the child is in danger then you have a duty to report it immediately to your local child protection agency. Remember you maybe one piece of a jig saw and the health visitor may have reported concerns or someone else.

The comment that concerns me is the feed back that the parent felt undermined and you were telling them how to bring up their baby. Have you been giving advise and if so why and how? I'm not sure how this comment might tie up with concerns about child protection? Also 8 months is a long time when you say you had enough concerns that you were noting them down when the child had been in your care for only a few weeks.

If you have an Early Year Development worker in your area I think I would suggest you ask for an urgent meeting with them, if not go and ask for a meeting with your local Children's Centre Manager as they are a Designated person. If you do this they will be able to go through the issues you have noted and see if they are child protection ones. If you do this though and they agree they are child protection issues they will be bound to report them even if you don't.

I don't know what else to say.

**The Juggler** · 11-02-2012, 12:17 PM

without knowing the full circumstances of your concerns this is a difficult one to advise on. you have had good advice above from rickysmiths. I too would contact a development worker or ask to speak to the family support worker at the local children's centre (you don't have to give child's name).

However, if you can't get advice in the absence of knowing how serious your concerns were I would say speak to a social worker in the safeguarding team and they would assess your concerns and whether they need to act.

**GemSar** · 11-02-2012, 12:49 PM

Thankyou for your posts.
I just want to say that although the child has been with us 8 months we have gone through times where the parent has been great. This is why we have been so stumped about it.

Rickysmiths - I am also a qualified nurse and when a parent asks me a question in that capacity I do answer them. I remind them that I am not a doctor and they should not take my advice only especially as I am not working in a nurse capacity at that time.

We do not advise as such but we discussed at times for instance the child shoes- we just started a conversation about where to go and how good some shoes are etc to get them thinking.

The fibre issue I sought advice from on of my paediatric nurse friends for informal advice, but that was for my own benefit really.

Do you think that we should not engage in conversations where we may need to give advice? Im confused now lol.
It wuld never have been that we were telling the parents how to raise their child but then is this whats got us into bother by trying too much to help?

If you could reply would be grateful
Thanks

**Tatjana** · 11-02-2012, 03:29 PM

I don't know what to say without knowing what the issues were that you were concerned about.

How have you had this child 8 months when you registered in Aug last year?

**The Juggler** · 11-02-2012, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by GemSar

Thankyou for your posts.
I just want to say that although the child has been with us 8 months we have gone through times where the parent has been great. This is why we have been so stumped about it.

Rickysmiths - I am also a qualified nurse and when a parent asks me a question in that capacity I do answer them. I remind them that I am not a doctor and they should not take my advice only especially as I am not working in a nurse capacity at that time.

We do not advise as such but we discussed at times for instance the child shoes- we just started a conversation about where to go and how good some shoes are etc to get them thinking.

The fibre issue I sought advice from on of my paediatric nurse friends for informal advice, but that was for my own benefit really.

Do you think that we should not engage in conversations where we may need to give advice? Im confused now lol.
It wuld never have been that we were telling the parents how to raise their child but then is this whats got us into bother by trying too much to help?

If you could reply would be grateful
Thanks

Gem it is absolutely fine to give advice I think that it is the 'how' that is important. It's always such a sensitive issue especially when there is a huge gap between our own parenting expectations and those of mindees parents. If they see our way as OTT then they could feel that our care of their little ones in the setting is undermining their own attempts at home.

**Carol M** · 11-02-2012, 04:41 PM

It is such a sensitive part of our job and one I have found difficult at times. It is a fine line between parents thinking you are genuinely offering help and ideas and parents feeling you are being judgemental. I too have often agonised over how to approach parents on issues I know I'm knowledgeable on and also when it is right to involve other professionals such as the Local Safeguarding Board or the Police.
You definitely need to discuss your concerns with your DO , if you have one, or talk in confidence to your Local Safeguarding Board duty social worker if you feel the need.
Good luck
Carol xx

**GemSar** · 11-02-2012, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Tatjana

I don't know what to say without knowing what the issues were that you were concerned about.

How have you had this child 8 months when you registered in Aug last year?

Sorry 6 months then my mistake was very late when i posted.

**GemSar** · 11-02-2012, 04:47 PM

Thankyou all for your advice, i think its just a case of learning to come accross in the right way. Its a very big learning curve for us and one that we will be very mindful of in the future.

**lynnfi** · 11-02-2012, 05:48 PM

Hi Gemstar,
I think we all do our best to give advice when we see it is needed.
I would definitely call the numbers on Safeguarding children that you have or will find on internet according to your locality.
You do have the duty to report anything that seems a bit strange, even if you have no proof or anything.
The person you will be calling will know from what you say, if they take it further or not. It is their job to decide.
Yours is to report really. And it could be vital for these children.
As for the parents, no one is going to incrimate you for giving any advice. I think they may be suspicious that if the child spends more time with you, you may have something more substantial in your hands to call the social services with.
Of course this may not be the case. But what percentage is it that it it?
I would say go for it.

**rickysmiths** · 11-02-2012, 07:21 PM

I am lost know. Sharing information and helping with advise is not usually a Child protection issue. Where does that come into the picture and and if you have concerns on this score you must act on the.

**The Juggler** · 11-02-2012, 07:46 PM

ricky I'm guessing that OP means that she has had concerns and tried to advise mum to help and see if concerns/issues might have got better if parents were using her advice.

**stardust** · 11-02-2012, 08:14 PM

Tbh if i had a possible safe guarding issue I wouldn't be discussing it with any friends in any capacity. My first port of call would be to ring social care and ask to speak to a social worker or ask someone to ring me urgently. I would the discuss my situation (without using identifying information such as names or addresses) and ask the social worker what he/she thought and if they believed in there qualified understanding of child protection if I should take this further. If he/she said yes, I would then give him/her the information needed and take his/her contact details in order to send them copies of all the information I had gathered and a written statement.
But under NO circumstances would I be discussing anything I deemed a safe guarding issue with anyone other than a professional who is trained to deal with it. Simply because you don't know, who know who and you can never know anyone 100%.
Millions of children slip through the net each year because parents up and leave at the earliest sigh that someone has cottoned on to what is happening. Every type of abuser whether child, adult, elderly ect are sly and will do anything and everything to cover their tracks.

If you have concerns contact your local social care team and ASK for a social worker - the person who answers the phone will most likely be a receptionist who will not have the training to give you a definitive decision.

**lynnfi** · 11-02-2012, 08:31 PM

You may have the booklet entitled "what to do if you suspect a safeguarding issue/ a child is being abused/neglected". If you do not have it, you can find it on the web, and type your region as well.
You will have the precise number to call. They will either be able to listen to you directly, or will give you the exact number to call. I am well trained in the matter.
If you have sleepless nights, do call them. The weight will come off your shoulders the minute you've done it. They are professionals taking things in their hands. And you legally are obliged to report, so be on the safe side.

**rickysmiths** · 11-02-2012, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by tara_louise1990

Tbh if i had a possible safe guarding issue I wouldn't be discussing it with any friends in any capacity. My first port of call would be to ring social care and ask to speak to a social worker or ask someone to ring me urgently. I would the discuss my situation (without using identifying information such as names or addresses) and ask the social worker what he/she thought and if they believed in there qualified understanding of child protection if I should take this further. If he/she said yes, I would then give him/her the information needed and take his/her contact details in order to send them copies of all the information I had gathered and a written statement.
But under NO circumstances would I be discussing anything I deemed a safe guarding issue with anyone other than a professional who is trained to deal with it. Simply because you don't know, who know who and you can never know anyone 100%.
Millions of children slip through the net each year because parents up and leave at the earliest sigh that someone has cottoned on to what is happening. Every type of abuser whether child, adult, elderly ect are sly and will do anything and everything to cover their tracks.

If you have concerns contact your local social care team and ASK for a social worker - the person who answers the phone will most likely be a receptionist who will not have the training to give you a definitive decision.

You can't do this any more. The 'What if' option has long gone . If you ring the Child Protection Line you have to give the full details of the child concerned and your full details.

You local Children's Centre manager is a Designated person and so is trained to deal with these situations but the way things are reported she if she thought the concerns warranted it would be obliged to report them even if you didn't.

The only people who might do a 'what if' call are the NSPCC.

**stardust** · 11-02-2012, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by rickysmiths

You can't do this any more. The 'What if' option has long gone . If you ring the Child Protection Line you have to give the full details of the child concerned and your full details.

You local Children's Centre manager is a Designated person and so is trained to deal with these situations but the way things are reported she if she thought the concerns warranted it would be obliged to report them even if you didn't.

The only people who might do a 'what if' call are the NSPCC.

When did they change it?? It stupid that they have as they are the best people to give you advice as they deal with it day in day out. I suppose they are over stretched though.

**GemSar** · 11-02-2012, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by tara_louise1990

Tbh if i had a possible safe guarding issue I wouldn't be discussing it with any friends in any capacity. My first port of call would be to ring social care and ask to speak to a social worker or ask someone to ring me urgently. I would the discuss my situation (without using identifying information such as names or addresses) and ask the social worker what he/she thought and if they believed in there qualified understanding of child protection if I should take this further. If he/she said yes, I would then give him/her the information needed and take his/her contact details in order to send them copies of all the information I had gathered and a written statement.
But under NO circumstances would I be discussing anything I deemed a safe guarding issue with anyone other than a professional who is trained to deal with it. Simply because you don't know, who know who and you can never know anyone 100%.
Millions of children slip through the net each year because parents up and leave at the earliest sigh that someone has cottoned on to what is happening. Every type of abuser whether child, adult, elderly ect are sly and will do anything and everything to cover their tracks.

If you have concerns contact your local social care team and ASK for a social worker - the person who answers the phone will most likely be a receptionist who will not have the training to give you a definitive decision.

Hi Tara, thanks for the advice. I'm a little confused by the start of youtr post as I havent been discussing it with any type of friends?

Ive posted on here because I wasnt sure whether I was thinking too much into it which is easy to do.
I would never under any circumstances discuss this with friends.
I havent got into alot of detail on here I've just asked advice.
Thanks all for your help

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 11-02-2012, 11:50 PM

My council had a referral service which I have to ring if I was making a referral giving names etc...

I can also call it for advice, without giving names unless I want to.

TBH I think if I were you I would ring and let them know what you are concerned about. If there isn't a case open at least they will know that there may be some issues and just record it.

Remember Victoria Climbia died because so many people didn't get the information out and share it. Everyone knew a bit of information but had it been shared maybe she would be alive today

What is the worst thing that can happen if you report it? That you might be wrong? A risk worth taking I think.

The parent may have thought you were getting too close and left.

**Chatterbox Childcare** · 11-02-2012, 11:53 PM

I have just reread the whole of this post and am surprised at the amount of responses that say "discuss it with your DO".

Do you know that you are breaking not only data protection laws but your registration by talking about someone without their permission.

Surely your Safeguarding training should kick in now and you should be talking to the professionals at the Referral Unit? No one else should know what is going on.

Rant over...

**GemSar** · 12-02-2012, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Chatterbox Childcare

I have just reread the whole of this post and am surprised at the amount of responses that say "discuss it with your DO".

Do you know that you are breaking not only data protection laws but your registration by talking about someone without their permission.

Surely your Safeguarding training should kick in now and you should be talking to the professionals at the Referral Unit? No one else should know what is going on.

Rant over...

I honestly thought these forums were for support.
I have not mentioned any names and what I have mentioned is nothing specific so tell me where I am breaking data protection laws?For all you know this could be a training excercise I have to do because I have not mentioned anything which could be linked back to anyone.
Yes I am aware of my safeguarding training and I will seek the appropriate channels however I wanted to see if anyone else had been in a similar situation and what the outcome was, is that so bad?
No need for ranting messages
The post was intended for advice not for anyone to make me feel worse about the situation.