In a parent pickle. Need advice.

**Childminder8608** · 12-12-2011, 06:42 PM

Hiya,

have just joined the group so totally new but I'm having a problem with one of my parents and I would like some advice on what other childminders would do.

I basically have 2 girls before and after school, 3 hours a day. Mum pays month in advance (i only require week in advance).

When she started in was a tuesday and I explained payment is in advance a full week so hers was a tuesday-tuesday basis. Always been that way, no problem.

She was disputing what my hols were/hol pay at the start of the month. I was explaining what was happening and why and she just piped up with she is overpaying me by a day as she paid 4 full weeks at the start but her girls started on the 2nd day of the week. I explained it was always tues-tues and that on her last wk she will only have 4 days to pay as the monday will already be paid.

She was texting me and emailing pretty much constantly all day on her last payday disputing this. She underpaid me by 1 days wage and then refused to discuss it further.

I sent a letter home with the girls explaining that I wasn't going to change my terms, that the days wage was still due but that as i only require week in advance, that I would give her to the friday the week before its due (23rd) to pay the remaining balance. This is the last day I have the girls then they break off for xmas. I asked her to get back to me on this.

She has just totally ignored me. She is in contact about other things but will not acknowledge this.

I don't really want it to just come to the 23rd, she breaks off on hols, doesn't pay me and then just doesn't return. My contract states if payment remains unpaid that contract will be automatically terminated with no notice so I have a feeling she will do this to be clever and not have to give me notice.

I dont want it to come to that as her girls are really easy to watch, I dont want to force the issue either, I want to remain professional. I would however like to know if they are going to return after xmas hols, I will worry about it all xmas hols if not. I feel I have been fair about this. She was off today and I have a feeling that she was off with the girls seeing a new childminder.

This woman has been pretty demanding and high maintenance in her wishes since the beginning and I am pretty stressed about it. What should my next steps be?

Thanks for anyone who made it through this!

**Wendybird** · 12-12-2011, 07:18 PM

It sounds like there isn't much you can do really. You've stated your terms and she sounds like she's decided she is in the right and there is little you can do to disprove her of this. Does your contract just state that you can terminate with no notice or that both parties can? Surely parents can't just get out of paying a notice period by not paying you what they owe you, thereby having the contract terminated? If it were me I would write another letter about the days wages owed closer to the time and remind her that if she would like to end the contract notice will still be applicable and she would still owe x amount. I assume you don't have any paper trail to prove that you have always charged Tuesday to Tuesday? Sorry this is happening.

**Childminder8608** · 12-12-2011, 07:27 PM

Well its basically coming down to that she is currently paid up to the first week of the xmas hols, she is due me the last day of the 4 weeks, which is the monday of the 2nd week hols, to continue this tues-tues as normal. The paper trail is there in that the contract has start dates and all payments are recorded. She feels I should give her a day back so it is a normal monday to friday now but it has been paid this way since august so she is basically telling me she is docking me a days wage this month!

I have said I'll give her to the 23rd so I suppose I just have to wait it out but they are asking favours of me regularly and it pains me doing it with a smile knowing they plan to leave me hanging just shortly. I can't say this for sure, but it's looking like it. I'm actually due the next months installment on the 30th December so could be relying on that for all my monthly bills (although I have budgeted for that payment not coming!)

The contract says "Payment must be made by the Friday, if it is not paid the latest acceptable time is the following Monday. If it is not paid by then the contract will be automatically terminated and I dont require to give you any notice to do so" Something along those lines. So she will probably have read this, decided just to leave it hanging and let the 23rd come and go without paying so she knows I will be forced to just terminate the contract and she will get out of the 4 weeks notice. I am definitely ammending my wording from now on!

I just don't know what to do. I'm trying to stop myself from being purposely awkward with regards to helping them out! Thanks for your help.

**Zoomie** · 12-12-2011, 08:05 PM

Okay, your contract states weekly in advance, but does it also say starting day ?

I understand where you are coming from in terms of worrying about whether you will get the children back after Xmas, but why is payment due 23rd - is this for the following week, being Xmas week and lots of ?? about what has to be paid re her / your holidays.

I would do a statement of account for this parent, showing all the payments received / weekly childcare provided and provided the parent pays by the Friday prior, or on the Monday am, for each week, she should be within the terms of her contract.

**Zoomie** · 12-12-2011, 08:09 PM

Sorry, I see you did a message whilst I was busy with mine (inc putting my LO to bed).

What makes you think they are not coming back in the new year?

You could always refuse care on the last day (the Friday?) until payment is received ??????

**Childminder8608** · 12-12-2011, 08:21 PM

Well as she has paid the month they should be up to date for their 4 weeks... tuesday to tuesday, taking them to Mon 2nd Jan. But she has docked a days wage so they are only paid until the Friday before, 30th December. Meaning that in the wage that was due Friday 3rd December they still have the last day to pay.

She is very thurough and on my case about the littlest thing, on a daily basis. Anything she isn't happy with, especially money, she just stalks me! But I have had silence. We discussed it all day on payday, then her phone cut out (she was down in England for weekend). I had told her if she was refusing to pay it had to be dealt with then as it was payday. So I left her a voicemail saying I wasn't prepared to change my dates/terms from what they have always been, for no reason other than her feeling she is getting her own way (I didnt say that bit) and that when she got the voicemail could she get back to me to confirm she got it and understood this days wage was still due. Nothing. I gave them a letter home on the Monday explaining my terms again, that I wasn't really happy that she had just decided to tell me she was underpaying me, that I didn't want to part ways as I enjoyed working with the kids and that I wanted to move forward. Could they please get back to me. Nothing (that was 5th Dec).

Their stepdad stopped coming to the door and would just sit in the car so they didn't have to face me. This went on until they started needing me to do favours for them again and they got in touch, but with no mention of anything to do with this.

I feel I am entitled to contact them again but as I said I will allow them to the 23rd I don't want to just seem impatient and pushy, but I don't' think its fair that they are leaving me on a string here.

They are clever people and I think they will have seen in my contract terms the loophole so to speak, that if they refuse to pay what they are due then I will automatically terminate with no notice. Then they get out of giving me any notice. She text me today saying she had taken the day off of work and would take the girls to school and pick them up, I have a feeling they were meeting with a new childminder as this is very unlike her and I feel they are just not telling me anything so I dont'know anything for certain and so will keep doing them favours. Grr, it's so disrespectful.

**sophia36** · 12-12-2011, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Zoomie

Sorry, I see you did a message whilst I was busy with mine (inc putting my LO to bed).

What makes you think they are not coming back in the new year?

You could always refuse care on the last day (the Friday?) until payment is received ??????

I would definately refuse care on the last day if payment is not made beforehand. I would be really upfront about my intention to do this. I would tell her this at the earliest opportunity so that she has advance warning. Hopefully this will avoid any conflict. I invoice my parents the last week of every month. They then pay by the end of the following week for the month ahead. I invoice for the month ahead as i have been stung so many times! Good luck

**Childminder8608** · 12-12-2011, 08:27 PM

Sophia because it is tuesday to tuesday the last day of care that is unpaid is the Monday, which falls in week 2 of xmas hols so I can't even really refuse to take them as they won't be there. It will just be a case of if it is not paid by boxing day then it is obvious they won't be returning as the contract will be automatically terminated due to non payment then.

The day she is due me is a hol and so half pay. All this fuss over £10.50.
She is due that on 23rd Dec then £378 on 30th December so I guess if I don't get the £10.50 then it's clear what is happening. I will then just pop a letter through their door on the tuesday 27th saying re the contract the kids wont be returning.

**little chickee** · 12-12-2011, 09:20 PM

I think it depends on how much you want to keep on this contract.

If you are willing to lose these kids stick to your guns and yes i agree that as she owes you a days pay you should not work the final day and then technically you are even.

i f you want to keep these kids you need to decide if you are prepared to back down and give up on the days payment. This however will make the mum feel that she was in the right and that you were wrong.

If you do back down issue a letter stating very clearly that you are in the right and that you are only letting it go to keep the peace.

From next year charge Monday to monday and it should clear it up.
I think at the beginning of the contract i would have taken 4 days pay the first week and then 5 days mon to monday.

**little chickee** · 12-12-2011, 09:22 PM

Although the last day that has not been paid is the Monday she is due you a days pay - it doesnt matter which day you dont work to make it even. Just don't have the kids on the last day before they finish.

**Childminder8608** · 12-12-2011, 09:26 PM

I feel like "the damage" is already done really, I think she has taken firm objection to being told no and so has spat the dummy.

I would need to find out her intentions to know what to do first really. I think what I'm asking is, should I...

contact her again? (if so, what do I say and how?)

leave it and contact her on 23rd if payment not made?

send out a letter saying I back down now in the hope we can resume as normal?

I don't know what to do. I'd be sad to see the girls go, and angry that she pushed this into being an unworkable situation, but I'd be a bit glad to see her go. My other half however is pretty annoyed with me for jeapordising £100 weekly.

**miffy** · 12-12-2011, 09:28 PM

Either she's completely batty or she's looking for an excuse to get out of the contract.

Surely you can prove the amounts she's paid you and what period they were for. You could put all this in a letter to her but it does sound like she's determined not to pay you that day so you might have to accept that the contract is over anyway.

I'd hope you will be able to find some much nicer parents in the future.

Miffy xx

**Childminder8608** · 12-12-2011, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by little chickee

Although the last day that has not been paid is the Monday she is due you a days pay - it doesnt matter which day you dont work to make it even. Just don't have the kids on the last day before they finish.

That's what I want to do, however that would mean not working the Friday 23rd, the day payment is due. If I get in touch to say I am refusing to work it, it could be that they were paying that day! Or if I choose a day before it is due I am sealing my fate really. It's just such awkward timing!

If you were me, would you try to address it again before the 23rd approaches? I need to have a clearer idea of their intentions to know how to move next really.

**miffy** · 13-12-2011, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Childminder8608

If you were me, would you try to address it again before the 23rd approaches? I need to have a clearer idea of their intentions to know how to move next really.

Yes, I would - I think you need to try and clear this up or it's going to pray on your mind over Christmas. I'd get all payments made and dates written down to show them and then ask for a meeting to discuss.

Good luck, it would be nice to clear this amicably.

Miffy xx

**mama2three** · 13-12-2011, 08:21 AM

if you really dont want to lose the girls ( and income) then maybe you could find a way to back down without admiting you are wrong ( not that you are!)

How about ringing her and saying that obviously you two are not going to agree over whether the £10 id due or not , but regardless that you feel that you should both put the girls first - and that you wouldnt see them having to settle elsewhere when they are clearly so happy with you for a measly £10. You get the moral high ground that way. tell her that from january payments run monday to monday - and itemise each day on your invoices so she cant object / nitpick.

Then put up your prices soon so you get back the £10 that way!

Pipsqueak · 13-12-2011, 08:30 AM

given what you are saying.. this parent is treating you with utter disdain and NO respect... she is ignoring you as a person, her childminder and a business.

If another business sent her a 'demand' letter or notification she would not and could not just ignore it so why is it so different with you... oh thats right because she has no respect for you.

I could not and would not want to work any longer with this person. She is a rude ignorant bullying domineering BAG.
OK so you try to compromise or back down on this issue... whats going to be next.

she is treating you like her employee

get shot

**AgentTink** · 13-12-2011, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Childminder8608

My contract states if payment remains unpaid that contract will be automatically terminated with no notice so I have a feeling she will do this to be clever and not have to give me notice.

If you want to keep the contract then I would make sure that you speak to the family way before the 23rd of December to say something along lines of that you do not want to fall out over the £10.50, so as a gesture of good will you will not chase this days payment and will start January Monday to Monday. This will then mean that the above clause will not come into play and she would have to give you 4 weeks notice like anybody else.

In your above wording it states if it remains unpaid.... how long do you give the parents in this clause until they have to pay?

**Childminder8608** · 13-12-2011, 09:57 AM

Is it unprofessional though to send out a letter saying, I won't be changing my terms. This is why. I need to you to reply to this. Wait, then send another letter saying "ok I will let you off with it and we can start from scratch"?

This woman has pushed and wormed every little thing she can get from me, for £3.50 p/h her kids are getting picked up from school, then sometimes back an hour later for the other to finish music class, dropped off again an hour later some days for sports. They are with me 3pm-5pm but do sports all evening so she pretty much demanded I feed them a full hot cooked meal even though that is not my policies. She has text me twice to let one of them phone London (I'm NE Scotland!) in the 1 hour they are with me in the morning so that she can speak to her cousin!! She's crazy, and very money orientated. I don't' feel I should have to give into her all the time for it to be a workable relationship.

I get what ur saying that this would make them liable for their 4 weeks payment then but what they would probably do is just wait until the following friday when they are due me a months payment and do the same!

My contract states when payment is due on a friday, they have till the monday and if it is not paid by then, then I have the right so to speak, to automatically terminate with no notice.

I'm thinking now that I might send a letter on the Weds 21st saying that as they will be breaking off whilst they are due me a days wage, that I want it brought with the girls on the morning of their last day. I'm not sure if I can do that because they will have paid for that week, and the following week that is a hol, but that's the last working day I have within this period. So why should the day I am not getting paid from come out of my hols? What do you think to that?

Pipsqueak · 13-12-2011, 10:43 AM

Still stand by what i say - get rid of her and find a family that appreciate you.

you don't need this poop in your life
you work for yourself - not them
she doesn't respect you and never will
she will keep trying to get more and more out of you/her own way/walk all over you

send a letter terminating and wishing them a very merry christmas (let them see if they can find greener grass)

**The Juggler** · 13-12-2011, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Pipsqueak

Still stand by what i say - get rid of her and find a family that appreciate you.

you don't need this poop in your life
you work for yourself - not them
she doesn't respect you and never will
she will keep trying to get more and more out of you/her own way/walk all over you

send a letter terminating and wishing them a very merry christmas (let them see if they can find greener grass)

what she said