can you offer some advice

**aquariel** · 18-04-2011, 12:11 PM

Hi

I’ve been on previously and now on again looking for further advice regarding my childminders fees and was wondering if I could ask for some (impartial) advice from other minders?

My childminder currently has my two children under a part time contract (contract for 22 hours per week) with contract hours between 3pm and 6.30pm.

With the easter holidays upon us I asked 3 weeks ago if she would be willing to amend her hours for the first week of the holiday from 3pm - 6.30pm to 9.30am - 6.30pm for the Monday and Tuesday only for those two days of the week. She agreed (verbally) and as far as I was aware the fees for swapping my hours would be covered by my 22 “contracted hours” despite it being outside my regular contracted hours.

On Friday I gave four weeks written notice terminating our contract (this is due to the reasons in my other post which I won’t go into here), and while there I asked her to confirm if the would still be able to take the children as per our previous agreement and she said she’d need to confirm this and get back to me. I asked if she could let me know as soon as possible.

Yesterday at 5.45pm she sent me a text to say that if I wanted her to take the children between 9.30am and 6.30pm for Monday and Tuesday the total costs for this week would be £144.00 for the Monday and Tuesday plus the regular £176.00 amount as per contracted hours totalling £320.00 for this week. I was prepared at worst to accept being charged for the hours outside of the contracted hours (e.g. between 9.30 and 3pm @ £4.00p/h per child) but she is essentially double charging for the hours between 3pm and 6.30pm.

As a result of not being able to agree to her fees and her late “confirmation” I have had to ask my parents (who live over 60miles away!) to look after the children for the half term holidays. I had to call my parents at 7pm last night and luckily my father was able to drive down and collect them but this has caused immense stress and upheaval all round in the family.

She states that the charges are on the advice of NCMA based on the “assumption” of a term time only contract, however nowhere on our contract does it state this will be term time only, she may be referring to my original request of her to take the children term time only but this was cancelled out at her request to be paid for 22 contracted hours each week term time or not.

The main thing I am asking is can she double charge or would most people agree that at most my fees for this week should be £264.00 (Monday + Tuesday 9.30 – 3pm + £176.00 for my contracted 22hrs.

Thank you in advance for any advice and assistance and big thanks for anyone who took the time to read all my ramblings.

Aquariel

**The Juggler** · 18-04-2011, 01:01 PM

I'm not sure what type of contract you have hon. Do you still pay her for 3pm-6.30pm all year round even though you don' t take them in the holidays. Or do you have a purely term-time only contract?

If I charged all year round then your £176 fee for holidays would work as a retainerIf this is what she is doing then normally any ours outside of this would need to be paid for in full. But she can only charge for additional hours you are using i.e. 0900-1500 - she can't charge you twice for the same day and hours.

So I would say contractually you'd pay your normal fee plus 0900-1500 for both Monday and Tuesday.

However, it may be that you have a term-time only contract with her and she is only charging you for 39 weeks per year it may be that your normal monthly fee £176 is only covering you for 39 weeks but the cost is spread over 12 months in which case you would owe her for the full amount of hours in the holidays.

Best thing is to have a look at your contract first.

**caz3007** · 18-04-2011, 01:06 PM

Did you have to pay the 22 hours, between 3 and 6.30 during the holidays anyway. If so surely she cant charge you double. I have lots of parents who are term time only with after school and I charge any ad hoc time at an hourly rate.

Even if you did pay for the afterschool hours during the holidays, surely she should only charge you up to 3 pm for the additional hours, as those hours are already charged and paid.

This lady seems to want it all to suit her. I would have been willing to come to a compromise, after all over £300 for 2 days work is extortionate, even if it is for 2 children.

I read your other post and hope you have found a different childminder with it more suitable pricing structure.

Penny1959 · 18-04-2011, 01:08 PM

Very difficult to comment with seeing the actual written contract or being party to any verbal agreement between you and your childminder.

Therefore my comment is based on the facts that you have presented on here - and more importantly on my own childminding setting and what I would do in this situation.

I can not and will not be a judge as to if your childminder is charging the correct fee or not.

However based on what you have said I would charge extra for the hours up to 3pm on the Mon and Tues and then charge you your normal fee from 3pm .

In fact if you came to my setting the maximum you would pay would be £198 for the week which is my full time rate for 2 children. BUT that is my rules in my setting not your childminders rules in her setting.

The best advice I can give you is to check out the potenial fees for situations in advance and get the hours and fee agreed to in writting - as they will protect you and the childminder.

Penny

**aquariel** · 18-04-2011, 01:15 PM

Hi

My contract states that the children are under a "part time vacancy" charged at 22 hours per week (charged at £4p/h per child) totalling £176.00 per week. There is no mention for charges for unsociable hours or for care outwith contracted hours (e.g any care I might require for school holidays).

The contracted hours are 3pm to 6.30 pm (she collects the children when they finish school at 3.15pm). In my mind it would be impossible to reach the 22 "contracted" hours on this basis.

There is no provision on our contract for care for non term time. At the time of signing my contract I was under the assumption that if I was to require care during school holidays I would only have to pay for hours beyond my 22 hours that I pay every week and that the actual hours would be agreed prior to being required.

As I'm at work just now I don't have my copy of the contract to hand but I can check when I get home on anything specific.

**Polly2** · 18-04-2011, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by aquariel

my fees for this week should be £264.00 (Monday + Tuesday 9.30 – 3pm + £176.00 for my contracted 22hrs.

This is what I personally would have charged you - however as others have said it is hard to say why she is charging you more without having all the paperwork.

**candylove13** · 18-04-2011, 02:01 PM

I would have given her a call and asked for a breakdown. She may have a reason why its so high or may have even just put the wrong amount down in a text. She wouldn't be the first person to make a mistake, especially in a text.

If it was my setting I would have charged you the normal hours and from 9.30-3pm per child on top. I think unless your contract states 22hrs p/w at anytime you can't pick and choose what hours you would like. Its 3-6.30pm and depending on what it says about school holidays; additional hours.

I have two after schoolers who don't attend in the holidays, its down as a term time only contract; with care offered in holidays when needed if space is availble.

It sounds like your unhappy with other issues as you've handed in notice, so I would now leave it and perhaps have it in mind if you choose another childinder. I always try to discuss and make it clear in contracts what is expected from parents and the care I can offer.

**aquariel** · 21-04-2011, 11:28 AM

Hi,

Firstly can I thank people for taking the time to respond to me, I've been really busy with work so not able to reply till now. I know people probably won't be able to help but still thought I'd post what my contract states:

Contracted hours: Mon - Fri 3.00pm - 6.30pm
Charges: Hourly childminding rate: £8.00
Weekly childmingin rate: £176.00
Payment Day: Friday

Additional notes for the contracted hours and any other agreements that apply to the contract:

22 hours contract for each child
however in cases such as sickness, school closeure, adverse weather conditions - full payment will be made for that day

Additional Charges:

crossed out

Charges for absence:

Due to child/parent/guardian illness/occasional days off: Full payment

Childminder paid time off: 4 weeks full pay
Parent/Guardian time off: 4 weeks full pay

Holidays/Paid time off: Notice required (on both sides): four weeks
For available statutory public holidays, what rate will be charged: £full pay

Hope this reads okay to anyone who is interested. I have put in italics the information that has been written on the contract.

We did call as soon as we received the text message asking for a breakdown but her response was that the amount quoted was as advised by NCMA based on a term time contract (which is not stated anywhere on the contract).

Thanks again for all the responses.

**Mouse** · 21-04-2011, 12:34 PM

Looking at the details there, I would say you have to pay her £176 every week, regardless of whether the children are there or not. As you're having to do that, she should be keeping the space available for you, so 3pm-6.30pm is yours to use. For the two days when you need extra care, she would be charging for the additional hours you use from 9.30am-3pm on top of the £176.
Some childminders would be happy to swap the hours for you (ie. use your 22 hours for the 2 full days), but some wouldn't. But then again, a lot wouldn't charge a full fee retainer for the school holidays if you weren't using it.

Is it an NCMA contract she is using? You could try giving them a ring and see whether they could advise you on how the contract reads and where you stand.

**cs01** · 21-04-2011, 03:11 PM

I would have thought it was only reasonable to charge for the extra hours, ie 9.30 till 3. You are already being charged from 3-6.30.

Good luck with this one!

**Minstrel** · 21-04-2011, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by cs01

I would have thought it was only reasonable to charge for the extra hours, ie 9.30 till 3. You are already being charged from 3-6.30.

Good luck with this one!

Agree!

**AliceK** · 21-04-2011, 03:28 PM

I would be charging your standard fees plus the additional charge for the hours you don't usually use so an additional cost from 9.30 - 3pm so I think that would make it the usual £176 for the week plus an additional £88 for the additional hours for 2 days so £264 in total for the week. I don't see where she has got the £144 from?
Some childminders will Swop hours around, others like myself who lets say have been burnt in the past will not

I hope you manage to sort this out with her

xxxx

**ZoeAlli** · 21-04-2011, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Mouse

Looking at the details there, I would say you have to pay her £176 every week, regardless of whether the children are there or not. As you're having to do that, she should be keeping the space available for you, so 3pm-6.30pm is yours to use. For the two days when you need extra care, she would be charging for the additional hours you use from 9.30am-3pm on top of the £176.
Some childminders would be happy to swap the hours for you (ie. use your 22 hours for the 2 full days), but some wouldn't. But then again, a lot wouldn't charge a full fee retainer for the school holidays if you weren't using it.

Is it an NCMA contract she is using? You could try giving them a ring and see whether they could advise you on how the contract reads and where you stand.

I agree with Mouse.
Hope you get it sorted quickly.