Tax credits

[purple rain]

nice!!!

i would love to know the ins and outs of the system. It does sem slightly backwards. well im going to write them a letter to tell them. that way if she does get a run on payment they know when the 4 wks are.

i hate that she still gets that money and she will spend it on alcohol and rubbish!!! at least if she was using it for bills or food i would feel better!!!

well if they come asking questions i will have all the answers waiting. that is the one bit of paper work that i know what im doing

[ORKSIE]

I have had a call in the past "Are you still caring for X"
I said "No"
They thanked me and i heard no more.
So they must check now and again.

[TRACEY1969]

i rung tax credits to tell them about 2 of my parents and they said it wasn't up to me. Well 10 months later tax credits rung me about both parents who were still claiming for me. i told them i rung when they didn't require my services and now they want all the information on both of them. i know they just can't take me word for it but it always ask the parents to sign a form stating when childcare finished and if there were any monies outstanding, so i have prove when i finish and if at the end of my tax year they say i have earnt £XX i can say no it's this amount.

Tax credits is a shame and i don't know why the childminder can't claim the money for the family, because we are not likely to committe fraud it's our business at the end of the day.

[Noodles]

i rung tax credits to tell them about 2 of my parents and they said it wasn't up to me. Well 10 months later tax credits rung me about both parents who were still claiming for me. i told them i rung when they didn't require my services and now they want all the information on both of them. i know they just can't take me word for it but it always ask the parents to sign a form stating when childcare finished and if there were any monies outstanding, so i have prove when i finish and if at the end of my tax year they say i have earnt £XX i can say no it's this amount.

Tax credits is a shame and i don't know why the childminder can't claim the money for the family, because we are not likely to committe fraud it's our business at the end of the day.

The thing is some parents have more than one childcare provider and there is a limit on how much they can claim in childcare costs so it would become very complicated if all childcare providers claimed for the child.

[Minstrel]

The thing is some parents have more than one childcare provider and there is a limit on how much they can claim in childcare costs so it would become very complicated if all childcare providers claimed for the child.

Do you think a voucher system would work- parents receive the childcare allowance as a voucher which they pass on to the relevent registered provider- similar to the employers vouchers (busy bees etc).

This way they could receive help,pay more than one provider, only pay registered carers and they wouldnt be any use to parents so fraud claims would go down.

Just my idea but i think it would work. Anything has got to be better than this system we have which has so many holes in it.

[kellsni]

I think that, that is a great idea

[Erika]

It's for security reasons. They do not accept a change of circumstances from anyone other than the claimant or the claimant's legal appointee. It's the claimant who makes the application and subsequent declaration to Tax Credit and it is their responsibility to inform them of any changes. If they fail to do so then it is a case for the fraud department. Third parties are not usually involved in most claims to benefit or tax credit unless the third party is the person's representative or legal appointee.

However, if they receive a telephone call from a third party to inform them of a change which would affect their benefit, such as service no longer provided, death of claimant or anyone named within the claim (child, partner), termination of claimant's employment, then what they should do is place a note on the claimant's account that a change of circumstances has been advised and then contact the claimant or appointee (or in the case of claimant's death, contact the person dealing with the deceased's affairs) to check the information and obtain a declaration either way. If you call to report that a service is no longer being used by a claimant, then they should not simply tell you to go away, but they should thank you and check the information with the claimant. At the end of the day, you're only trying to assist in the crusade against fraud. What they can't do, is tell you anything which reveals the parent has a claim with them - so they shouldn't say "I'll put a note on their account" or "I'll contact the claimant to ask them to verify the information you have given me". They should simply thank you for your time and say they will check if the person has a claim and act accordingly if they do.

If it is a death of the claimant and verification of the death can be provided, such as a death certificate, BD8, interim death certificate, coroner's statement, police statement, a suspension should immediately be placed on the claim until the person dealing with the deceased's affairs can be contacted and any arrears of benefit due assessed.

If the deceased person was paid in arrears, benefit or tax credit may still be due to them, in which case it will be paid to the person who is dealing with the financial affairs of the deceased.

The four week run on applies to most benefits, as most benefits are paid in arrears, only some are paid in advance, but Tax Credit is not one of them.

In addition, someone whose child is born alive but dies shortly afterward (not a stillbirth) may still be entitled to claim up to 8 weeks of Child Benefit, 8 weeks of child tax credit and is still entitled to the Sure Start Maternity Grant, providing the qualifying criteria is met in regard to income/qualifying benefits.

Just a quick word of advice, mainly for new childminders who may not be aware. I would advise any childminders to have their parents sign a form, giving their authority to disclose information regarding the service to Tax Credits. If a parent discovers you have spoken to Tax Credit and disclosed details about them without their agreement, it leaves you wide open to breaching data protection laws. More so if the parent does not have a Tax credit claim for childcare, some don't and the childminder is unaware of it.

Another thing that a lot of people don't consider is when Tax Credit phone them to check a claim. How do you know it's Tax Credit? Do you ask questions that only someone from Tax Credit would know about the parent/child? When they ring you or you ring them, they ask a range of security questions to ensure they are speaking with someone who is either the claimant, the claimant's representative or the claimant's appointee. This is to ensure they don't dicuss or disclose details. If they ring you, you have every right and should, ask them questions to verify who they are. If they refuse, you can ask them to write to you instead. If you don't follow procedures like these and it turns out to be someone who wasn't from Tax Credit at all, again data protection laws are broken and you leave yourself open to legal action.

As an example case study:

Lone parent has a child who attends school and goes to Childminder before and after school. Childminder receives a call one particular day from someone claiming to be from Tax Credits checking the person's claim. He asks if a certain child is placed with you, what hours per week the child is cared for and asks about fees, asks all the "right" questions you would expect someone from Tax Credits to ask. Has a professional telephony manner and maybe even makes a joke or two on the phone, which relaxes the childminder further. The next day, the childminer is unloading children from the car after the school run when a man appears out of nowhere and snatches one of the children who is standing on the footpath. The same child whom the phone call was about. It turns out the man is the child's father who the mother has a restraining order out on.

How did it happen? He happens to have found out the local area where the mother lives, and set about searching for local childminders. He finds the care services list, complete with names, contact numbers and childminder registration numbers. He has also obtained a care services list from the Social Work department which details addresses of childminders. It's easy to match them up. He plans to spend the morning ringing around childminders to find the one that cares for his son. By sheer luck, the second number he calls is the right one. The childminder unwittingly gave him all the information he needed. The fact that she cared for the child, confirmed the mother's name, gave him the hours per week - from the hours per week, and the age of the child, he was able to work out that it was possibly before and after school care and took a chance that it was. Behind the scenes he has managed to find out what time the school day ends and simply waits for the childminder to return from the school run.


Scary, isn't it? You can be so security concious yet let your guard slip for that second.

Tax credits have security in place for various reasons. One being the above, it could be simply anyone calling. One of the main problems they have is debt collectors pretending to be from other govenment agencies. They know all the right jargon to use and speak in terms that are only used by the Tax Credit office, easy to penetrate if anyone lets their guard down.

[Tatjana]

I'm sorry but this sounds like an urban myth to me, he would have to be really slick to carry this off or the cm quite dim as the questions would have to be precise.

Where would he get the cm address from? Surely the childminder would be 'confirming' information not giving it out.

xx

[youarewhatyoueat]

Well put Erika, I can't believe how many cm's believe its their business to inform tax credits etc we should not presume to know the parent's personal details, that's just it they are personal!!!! Caroline

[Joannechildmind]

I wouldnt have the time to sit at the end of the phone and inform them, its bad enough trying to get through when i need to discuss my tax credits, let alone someone elses.

[Erika]

CM's addresses are present on the Social Work list of childminders.

The minute you confirm something it is a breach of the data protection act, as you have just confirmed something which someone did not necesserily know.

If for example, a person rings a benefit office with a query, the benefits officer should never say they want to confirm a certain personal detail such as an address or a date of birth. What they should do is ask between 4 and 6 security questions, two of which are classed "high security", such as how their award is made up, and one which must be "medium security". They should not at any stage advise that the person has confirmed all the details. They are advised that they have either passed the security check or have failed it, and they shouldn't say which question has been failed on.

Secondly, any time a benefit or tax credit office calls someone whether it is the claimant themselves or a third party, they have to ask security details to ensure they have the right person and it's secure to discuss the case. They wouldn't just ring up and ask for details without asking security questions, and if they do, they are placing their jobs on the line, it is classified as gross misconduct in the world of benefit advisors, thus an advisor who does this can have their employment terminated with immediate effect. If the security questions are answered satisfactorily then they continue the call, if not they explain that the security check has failed and they are unable to continue the call but will follow it up in writing.

But the point I'm trying to make is they ask security questions for a reason. to protect the security of the claimants details. Therefore a childminder should do the same. If they speak to Tax Credit without and disclose details whether through simply confirming information or offering it, without the parents consent then I'm afraid the parent can take civil action. There are so many cases of compo culture in this world and ridiculous legal battles for things that can be easily prevented. Childminders get a hard enough time as it is, I'm only offering advice to those who may be quite new and not aware of how easy it is to land yourself in the hot stuff unwittingly.

If you have a parent sign an authority giving you as a childminder permission to confirm details and discuss the childcare element with Tax credits sticky situations can be avoided. Ringing up tax credit to tell them a parent no longer uses the service, although morally right is legally wrong if you have no authority to disclose their personal information to a third party.

The questions in the case study are ones which would be expected: "How many hours per week is childcare paid for?", or "Is it still 15 hours per week?" childminder: "no, it's 17 hours per week" and "What are the fees?" (The fees are a throw off - he doesn't need to know this but knows it is one of the questions asked by official bodies). A person who confirms information isn't necesserily dim - it happens all the time in jobcentres, council benefit sections, tax credits where people call up pretending to be from another department when they are in fact usually debt collection agencies or tracing agents. That's why security questions are asked, to ensure info is given to the right person. Any call thought to be from a "bogus caller" has a report written about the call, the number they called from (caller ID on benefit phones), what the nature of the conversation was ect, sent to the security advisor who follows it up.

The case study was an extreme example but in reality it's quite simple to trace a person or assume an identity on a few personal questions and confirmation of details.

[kellsni]

In the case of some one ringing me asking for children's details then I would say I cannot does this as I do not know who you are and say that you are going to ring tax credits yourself so you know that you are talking to someone from the tax credits.

I did this once when someone rang from housing asking about my children, ages, date of birth, and lots of other personal details, I said that I was not prepared to answer these as I do not know that you are who you say you are so I said that I would rig housing myself to confirm that i am speaking to someone in that department.

[sparkibobs]

I also rang the normal hotline number and the lady couldn't have been more helpful.
Recently had a parent not pay me and lie to me and I teminated contract. So I rang for advice (didn't want the parent to keep claiming especially as I hadn't been paid).
The lady took all my details and all relevant details I could supply on the parent and child. She also asked would I like to rename anonymous and if I feared I was at risk from the parent.
she took my registration number and as I said before was lovely and very helpful.

Maybe they are like Ofsted inspectores, it depends on which one you get!!

[sparkibobs]

Just wanted to add, after reading Erikas great post that I do have a form that parents sign stating that it is their responsibility to inform Tax Credits but if I have reason to believe they won't then i will do so.
Not quite worded like that but I'm sure you get the point.
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