term time only sound right?

[Soper757]

So i am pre reg and finalising my fees etc. I have decided to do tto contracts with the option to book in during holidays for a higher hourly rate. I just want to know if this sounds ok?! and fair!!
I am thinking I would charge 39 weeks and divide by 12 to give a monthly amount? That means during the holidays I wouldnt be paid anything. Is this normal? Or can I say for example That i charge 39 weeks of the year that I work plus 4 weeks that I am entitled to for holidays and then divide that amount by 12 months to give a monthly amount?

phewph this is confusing haha! Now if someone says to me they want an all year round contract, I am happy to do that for them however they would be charged the normal hourly rate for 39 weeks and then the holiday rate for the other 13? Then just give them the option to take holidays when they want but still pay me 100% all year round. Is that ok????? ahh!!!

[Kiddleywinks]

Some minders charge for their holidays, some don't, some parents don't mind paying, and some do - you'll see this pattern a lot, and more so regarding fees
Always remember 2 things: There is no right or wrong way, and how you structure your fees is personal to how you want to run your business.

Things you may like to think about:
TTO contracts, by definition, leave you without that child in the school holidays.
Scenario 1:
You make plans to do some long all day trips out with friends or family due to not having any minded children.
A TTO parent calls the day before and 'needs' care the following day for 4 hours between 10am and 2pm, there's no one else, they're desperate, kids will only come to you (tugging on your heart strings is common )
What do you do?
In your contract/policies you've given the option to provide ad hoc holiday care and parent highlights this point.
Do you a. have an advance notice period of care required in school holidays built into your contracts (need 7/14/21/28 days advance notice)
Do you b. cancel your plans as the 4 hour period required isn't practical for you to still go
Do you c. explain to parents that you are having a trip out, you can still take their LO but they'll have to pay for the whole day and you won't be back till 6pm (ah, bit little Johnny has a dentist appointment at 4.30......)
Do you d. explain to parents that you are having a trip out, you can still take their LO and you won't be back till 6pm but you'll only charge them the 4 hours (Ah, we'll rearrange the dentist appointment then....)
Do you e. let the parents down (as that's how they'll see it regardless of anything you build in for them to give you advance notice)

Scenario 2:
You get a holidays only child filling the holiday space of the TTO child. This means you are now full in the holidays.
Parent calls asking for ad hoc care in 7/14/21/28 days as per your contract, which you can no longer provide, despite telling parents at the start of the contract 18 months ago you would be happy to do adhoc care during the holidays (coz if you said it or wrote it in your contract or policies you can bet your bottom dollar it will become an issue loooong after you think taking on a holiday child won't be a problem)
What do you do?
I have no suggestions to offer here other than panic, and brace yourself for tears and tantrums



Well, actually, I do have a couple of suggestions really....
1. Term time only, means Term time only, leaving you free to have mindeeless holiday or free to advertise for holiday only children.
If a parent DOES call asking if you have a 4 hour space a week next Thursday, and you can do it, great, extra money for you and parent is pathetically grateful, if not, you won't feel bad about saying 'oh no, sorry' and parent was only asking on the off chance so wasn't 'relying' on you anyway
Alternatively....
2. If you are having to 'reserve' a place for a child in the holidays 'just in case' then by rights, it needs paying for, as you would be unable to take on another child during the holidays.
This is called a retainer. How you structure that is down to yourself, it could be a set amount per day eg £10, it could be half your rate for each day retained, it's entirely up to you, BUT, it also means that if a day is retained, you would need to opt for option b,c,d or e in scenario 1 - if you opted for option e you would also have to refund any retainer paid as you are unable to provide the care they've reserved...

I guess what I'm saying is, if you offer it, however loosely, there will come a time when parent will want to use it and you'll have shot yourself in the foot when you can't provide it - you will be the minder slated as being unreliable all over social media when the reality is you have let the parent down once, ever.


Some things to think about when you spread payments over 12 monthly payments for TTO parents...
1. If you're charging for your time off which, say you take during the school holidays when you wouldn't be having their child anyway, how will you justify that to parents? I'm not saying it's wrong btw, many minders do charge for their holidays, but many minders also have parents that were fine at the start of the contract about paying their time off, but when it comes to the 6 weeks holidays have major league fallouts due to parents 'having to still pay when their child isn't even attending'
You are self employed, not employed, so using the 'well you get paid during your holidays' line doesn't always go down too good *See any of the parent based forums for some amusing stories
Alternatively, if you take your holidays during term time, parents will have to pay you AND another provider, again, how will you put your argument across to parents in such a way that they understand and accept your terms.

2. If you spread your TTO fees out over 12 equal monthly payments, parents will pay less per month than the actual cost of the care provided for part of the year, catching up/exceeding the shortfall during the 6 week school holidays and beyond.
So if a contract is terminated, before the 12 month structure is up, either the parent will still owe you or they will be due a refund from you.
How will you explain to a parent, (who, as far as they are concerned, has paid you the monthly amount agreed on time every month), how they still owe a couple of hundred £'s?
How will you keep track of the cost of care provided/actual fees received?

If the parent is due a refund, they don't generally have a problem with that

Personally, I do spread payments, but I also do an invoice and show the current balance on there so there is no confusion as to where their fees stand at any one time.
It's quite a simple invoice done on a word document showing

Balance brought forward from (previous month)
Care provided for weeks commencing
a,
b,
c,
d,
e,
Additional charges (late fees charge/late collection charge/forgotten lunch money/trip money/additional hours of care etc)
Fees received
Current balance (taken forward to following month)

In addition, I also show my holiday dates so parents can't say they never knew lol
It's basic, but it works for me


Lots there to think about, but hopefully, it helps

[FloraDora]

I am tto because I do not work in the holidays and therefore do not expect a payment either in holiday weeks. My parents are all teachers and so this arrangement is perfect for them and me.
I think that the arrangement you suggest may put parents off. If I was a parent who works all year round I wouldn't expect to pay more for childcare in the holidays for an under 5, I would therefore find a childminder who charged the same rate all year round.
what would under 5's get extra for their extra payment in school holiday time? is it like booking a holiday, you cost more in peak times?
I can see the logic for school age children and the difference between before and after school care and full days care when they come in holiday time, but not for under 5's who are not yet on a school calendar.

[loocyloo]

My term time only children pay a higher fee for term time only.

This is worked out as follows ... hourly fee £4 x 39 weeks
Plus half fee £2 x 13 weeks

£182 divided by 39 weeks equals
£4.66 per hour .

Then, if holiday care is required, parents are asked to book a few weeks in advance, but they can and some do, ask at the last minute ... If I can do it I say yes, if I can't I say no. No holiday booking is confirmed until I have received payment in advance.

I charge full fees for parents holidays/time off/illness etc and none for my holiday/time off/illness etc.
I put all my holiday dates on my monthly invoices and termly newsletter with as much notice as possible.

[bunyip]

I have TTO clients and still charge them my normal rate. That works for me, but not for everyone, so do what works for you.

Personally, I would strongly advise against your proposal to 'average out' the fees across the year. I've done this before and so have several CM friends of mine. All too often it ends in an acrimonious disagreement about who owes what when the contract comes to an end. Face it: if mum needs an averaged bill , it's because she can't keep track of her finances in the first place - so she's not going to keep track of whether she's up or down in terms of payments versus holiday.

I've reached the point where I'm no longer going to make work for myself doing all the calculations only for mum to tell me I owe her money (which I don't) when the child leaves.

[moggy]

I'd also steer well clear of averaging out invoices over the year- a nightmare to work out when they leave mid-year. And they will very likely leave mid-year: CMing is not like school where everyone starts on a fixed date and stays for 12mths. Families come and go and take a break for a few months and change their days and change their hours and then add a sibling...
Keep it simple: monthly invoices of actual contracted hours for the up coming month, to be paid in advance of care.

[BallyH]

Because I currently take funded children I do all my bills termly as it is easier to deduct the 'free' hours from their bill this way. Sept, Jan, and April are when I do my bills. My Eyfs TTO children pay a half retainer with the knowledge that the space is available if ever needed, they just pay the other half. All my schoolies are TTO and do not pay anything during holidays as I now only want the lo's during that time. However if a parent was desperate and I had the room/felt like helping, I would charge them the hourly rate the lo's pay.

[Soper757]

My term time only children pay a higher fee for term time only.

This is worked out as follows ... hourly fee £4 x 39 weeks
Plus half fee £2 x 13 weeks

£182 divided by 39 weeks equals
£4.66 per hour .

Then, if holiday care is required, parents are asked to book a few weeks in advance, but they can and some do, ask at the last minute ... If I can do it I say yes, if I can't I say no. No holiday booking is confirmed until I have received payment in advance.

I charge full fees for parents holidays/time off/illness etc and none for my holiday/time off/illness etc.
I put all my holiday dates on my monthly invoices and termly newsletter with as much notice as possible.

Do you take a set amount of holidays or just as much as you want when you want?
I am guessing that you also offer 51 weeks contracts? I am just figuring from all comments here that its probably better. As long as I can give some notice to take some time of if i do want a holiday and also at christmas. I am just really struggling now!! So if offer tto in the same way that you mention above, do they pay weekly? if not how do I split it ao that theu do not pay during holiday weeks! ? thank you!! so helpful

[Soper757]

Then, if holiday care is required, parents are asked to book a few weeks in advance, but they can and some do, ask at the last minute ... If I can do it I say yes, if I can't I say no. No holiday booking is confirmed until I have received payment in advance.

I charge full fees for parents holidays/time off/illness etc and none for my holiday/time off/illness etc.
I put all my holiday dates on my monthly invoices and termly newsletter with as much notice as possible.[/QUOTE]

Reading the above, i assume if you took a holiday during the 13 weeks in which £2 is paid, you woukd refund those days to the parent? even if they hadnt booked in with you?

[Kiddleywinks]

Reading the above, i assume if you took a holiday during the 13 weeks in which £2 is paid, you woukd refund those days to the parent? even if they hadnt booked in with you?

No.
What loocyloo's trying to say is that she charges a higher rate for term time only children, and that's how she's worked the rate out.

By parents paying a slightly higher rate during term time Loocyloo could potentially put 66p per hour away during term time to cover her 'wages' over the time she's not needed in the holidays.
It's a popular way of calculating fees for term time only/part timers contracts, without the hassle of asking for a retainer and then not being able to take a holiday only child on.

[loocyloo]

Do you take a set amount of holidays or just as much as you want when you want?
I am guessing that you also offer 51 weeks contracts? I am just figuring from all comments here that its probably better. As long as I can give some notice to take some time of if i do want a holiday and also at christmas. I am just really struggling now!! So if offer tto in the same way that you mention above, do they pay weekly? if not how do I split it ao that theu do not pay during holiday weeks! ? thank you!! so helpful

yes, I offer 52 weeks of the year contracts, at my regular hourly fee. Everybody is invoiced each month, for those months hours, at either my regular hourly fee, or my term time only fee ( as mentioned above - they ARE paying for the holidays, but within the termtime only fee ). I have one parent who pays cash weekly ( at drop off, for first session of the week ) everyone else pays by the 1st of the month for that months fees. ( when I invoice, if I need to refund, or charge for extra hours, it is added to the following months fees )

I take 4-5 weeks holiday a year ( although, I think it may well be closer to 6 this year! ) I say I will give a minimum of 4 weeks notice of holidays, but I give as much notice as possible, so my parents have known since Easter when I will be off at Christmas ( 1-2weeks depending on how the holidays fall, and our plans ), and will know by Christmas, when I will be off in the summer ( 2 weeks ). I usually take a week at Easter, and generally, it is always the 2nd week of the school holidays. I usually end up taking a couple of days in Autumn and May half terms, due to DDs competition dancing - these I either say I am taking them as holiday, and then if DD isn't dancing, I have a day off, or, more usually, I say I may be taking these days off, and as soon as I know when DD is dancing, I then know what days I am available to work. some parents make plans for alternative childcare, and if they don't need me, I don't charge, but sometimes, parents prefer the child to come to me, and then I get paid the problem with this is, that I can give parents the dates I might not be working, but I can't usually confirm until 10 days before the competition! nightmare!

good luck x

[Soper757]

No.
What loocyloo's trying to say is that she charges a higher rate for term time only children, and that's how she's worked the rate out.

By parents paying a slightly higher rate during term time Loocyloo could potentially put 66p per hour away during term time to cover her 'wages' over the time she's not needed in the holidays.
It's a popular way of calculating fees for term time only/part timers contracts, without the hassle of asking for a retainer and then not being able to take a holiday only child on.

Got you! So we wouldnt say its a retaining fee but more of a discount for them as they are not attending those weeks. Or would you just say.... i charge 4.66 for term time only and not explain that! Thanks for this its all so helpful!

[Kiddleywinks]

You'd just say your rate for part time/term time only is £4.66 or, work out the fees based on the hours they've asked for based on £4.66 an hour and just say 'that would be £xx amount per week and I include x, y, and z (food and whatever else you include)

[loocyloo]

No.
What loocyloo's trying to say is that she charges a higher rate for term time only children, and that's how she's worked the rate out.

By parents paying a slightly higher rate during term time Loocyloo could potentially put 66p per hour away during term time to cover her 'wages' over the time she's not needed in the holidays.
It's a popular way of calculating fees for term time only/part timers contracts, without the hassle of asking for a retainer and then not being able to take a holiday only child on.

:-) Thanks Kiddleywinks xx

[samb]

I have 1 school age child TTO. For school children I charge a sessional rate. Then I take holiday bookings 1 holiday ahead (so in summer I took bookings for oct half term). They pay for this at time of booking on usual hourly rate. I have 1 child school age who is holiday only, just books when each holiday booking opens and pays hourly rate. Then all else pay hourly rate once a month.