Changing my fees system- do you think this is fair?

**Kbrands** · 25-06-2015, 07:16 PM

So currently I charge by the hour. I only take early years children and have 1 of my own, so I can only take 2 children at a time.

It was fine to begin with as I only had full time or full day children.

However, I'm getting a lot of inquiries from people who want to do, say 9.30-1.30 a few days a week. This obviously isn't worth my while as they'd effectively be taking up whole days as most of the nurseries kick out at 12 and it's unlikely I'd be able to fill the space.

I'm not keen to charge per day, but I was thinking about charging half days instead, like nurseries do. So from 9-12.30 and 12.30 until 4 or something like that. Then just my regular rate outside of those hours.

Does anyone else do this or can you come up with a better idea than I did?

**moggy** · 25-06-2015, 07:50 PM

I charge by the hour but if I get an enquiry for hours that don't suit I just say no, and I never take on less than 12 hours a week and preferably no less than 2 full days.

I have never done session-prices (like half-day sessions) because I think it complicates what is currently very simple for me and may lead parents to have to fit into a session time that does not match their needs.

You could say you 'charge a minimum of 3.5-hours a day' (or whatever you are prepared to do) then you can be open to whatever times suit your particular vacancy.

**natlou82** · 26-06-2015, 05:40 AM

I did do a half day and full day rate, but then I found myself working out cheaper session fees for 3-4 hours etc as thought my half day rate was a bit too much. Then I worked out session fees but realised I was doing myself out of pocket when it would be much simpler to charge hourly. So I've switched to hourly! Like moggy I think through the logistics with each client, can I do it? Do I want to do it? I would be thinking about my typical day and how it fits in, how does it affect the other children etc. if I wanted to go ahead I would only charge for hrs used. You could take on a schoolie round these hours :-)

**bunyip** · 26-06-2015, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Kbrands

So currently I charge by the hour. I only take early years children and have 1 of my own, so I can only take 2 children at a time.

It was fine to begin with as I only had full time or full day children.

However, I'm getting a lot of inquiries from people who want to do, say 9.30-1.30 a few days a week. This obviously isn't worth my while as they'd effectively be taking up whole days as most of the nurseries kick out at 12 and it's unlikely I'd be able to fill the space.

I'm not keen to charge per day, but I was thinking about charging half days instead, like nurseries do. So from 9-12.30 and 12.30 until 4 or something like that. Then just my regular rate outside of those hours.

Does anyone else do this or can you come up with a better idea than I did?

Not a criticism, but an observation: hopefully one to provoke a little thought...............

Whenever I hear a CM say "I can't fill the space" my immediate thoughts "how hard have you tried?" That's not to say nobody should ever charge full day, just do look at the possibilities before assuming or (more usually) simply repeating what other CMs say as if it were some holy mantra.

The other thing that occurs to me is there's a bit of a contradiction in your idea. If you're going to charge for a 1/2 day, then you are at least considering the possibility that a morning child will not take up the space for the whole day and that you might indeed find an afternoon child to............er.............. "fill the space."

I've built my entire business on 'bits and pieces' work. I currently have 4 children who do either morning or afternoons (and an enquiry for another to come 2pm-6pm shortly), which fit well around one another. I'm not struggling for business, but I know several CMs who are, and they all insist on mums paying full day "because they're taking up a space" - so a lot of mums won't use them.

I can see the sense in am/pm sessions, but also the problems/contradictions. If your sessions run 9-12.30 and 12.30 until 4 or so, then that 9.30-1.30 client is still paying full day because they cross both sessions. Mum might be even more grumpy about it because she can now argue that she's only 1 hour more in total than a single session.

I fully understand this is how nurseries work, but that can be the difference and the very reason why a client chooses a CM over a nursery. To be fair on nurseries, their logic is based on staffing requirements across sessions to maintain ratios.

As I say, I don't mean to pull your ideas apart, just give some food for thought.

**tess1981** · 26-06-2015, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by bunyip

Not a criticism, but an observation: hopefully one to provoke a little thought...............

Whenever I hear a CM say "I can't fill the space" my immediate thoughts "how hard have you tried?" That's not to say nobody should ever charge full day, just do look at the possibilities before assuming or (more usually) simply repeating what other CMs say as if it were some holy mantra.

The other thing that occurs to me is there's a bit of a contradiction in your idea. If you're going to charge for a 1/2 day, then you are at least considering the possibility that a morning child will not take up the space for the whole day and that you might indeed find an afternoon child to............er.............. "fill the space."

I've built my entire business on 'bits and pieces' work. I currently have 4 children who do either morning or afternoons (and an enquiry for another to come 2pm-6pm shortly), which fit well around one another. I'm not struggling for business, but I know several CMs who are, and they all insist on mums paying full day "because they're taking up a space" - so a lot of mums won't use them.

I can see the sense in am/pm sessions, but also the problems/contradictions. If your sessions run 9-12.30 and 12.30 until 4 or so, then that 9.30-1.30 client is still paying full day because they cross both sessions. Mum might be even more grumpy about it because she can now argue that she's only 1 hour more in total than a single session.

I fully understand this is how nurseries work, but that can be the difference and the very reason why a client chooses a CM over a nursery. To be fair on nurseries, their logic is based on staffing requirements across sessions to maintain ratios.

As I say, I don't mean to pull your ideas apart, just give some food for thought.

I agree with this. I used to say a child took up a full space but now I fill up on a day here or half a day there. If a parent wants a day or X amount of hours I tell them what I can do if it does not suit they arrange around me or find somewhere else it will suit

**shortstuff** · 26-06-2015, 03:37 PM

I also have my diary filled with lots of part days. I personally charge by the hour as that is what suits both me as a small business and the parents.

To add a little more to Bunyips answer I actually have a family who requires collecting their LO at 2.30. I had a parent of a little who required 2.30 till 6. So they fitted around each other. Another case is a LO who is collected before 1 and I collect another from preschool at 1.

**k1rstie** · 26-06-2015, 07:19 PM

My children have always been a jigsaw. I have only once had a full time child.

I have even had funded children fit into my small unfillable spaces.

**Dragonfly** · 29-06-2015, 07:15 AM

Just a thought that if you have a child at nursery 9- 12 and don't charge whilst they are there.Bunyip you say you could fill that space whilst they are there?, but what happens if say the nursery is closed for example bad weather ( winter) PD day and that child needs to come to you and you have filled that space whilst they are at nursery What do you do?. Also school hols they need that space so yo can't fill it- unless term time only in that case I don't charge whilst at nursery.

**bunyip** · 29-06-2015, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

Just a thought that if you have a child at nursery 9- 12 and don't charge whilst they are there.Bunyip you say you could fill that space whilst they are there?, but what happens if say the nursery is closed for example bad weather ( winter) PD day and that child needs to come to you and you have filled that space whilst they are at nursery What do you do?. Also school hols they need that space so yo can't fill it- unless term time only in that case I don't charge whilst at nursery.

It's a very good thought.

I never take on any client who doesn't have a 'Childcare Plan B' up their sleeve, whether that's gran, a friend or simply the balls to stand up to their boss for their parental leave rights. Emergencies are emergencies, and they need to be prepared, just like they need to be prepared to collect a sick child from nursery whom a CM would also be excluding from her/his own setting. In the case of a preschool/nursery closure I would help if possible, but strictly within regulations and the understanding that, like any other non-contracted hours, I'm under no obligation (it is, essentially, ad-hoc if nursery closes.) I'm happy to be an emergency contract, but without making any guarantee. I always put it to a parent that the same thing that might cause my local preschool to close might well cause me to close too: e.g. a power cut or loss of water supply would likely affect us both, so I'm not necessarily the best person to use as a safety-net.

In my case, I have so many TTO clients that the school holidays just aren't a problem.

The one thing I really try to avoid is becoming a pick-up service for mums who find a 'cheap' nursery purely to save money, with me covering the times nurseries find less economical to stay open. I only do it if I believe there is a genuinely child-centred reason why the group setting will give the child something I cannot.

**Dragonfly** · 29-06-2015, 07:44 AM

I tend to charge if they are term time children and need a space when nursery is closed whether for holidays, boiler broken etc, need a space for holidays, I take and collect from nursery.

Another one I feel guilty about is charging when they are on holiday ( i don't charge when I am on holiday or for bank holidays ) I do however do it other wise I would be out of pocket.

I always try to put myself in the parents position and be fair about whether I charge or not.

hence I have a lot of part time children but I have happy parents and a happy environment.

**bunyip** · 29-06-2015, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

I tend to charge if they are term time children and need a space when nursery is closed whether for holidays, boiler broken etc, need a space for holidays, I take and collect from nursery.

Another one I feel guilty about is charging when they are on holiday ( i don't charge when I am on holiday or for bank holidays ) I do however do it other wise I would be out of pocket.

I always try to put myself in the parents position and be fair about whether I charge or not.

hence I have a lot of part time children but I have happy parents and a happy environment.

The holiday thing is quite a debate in its own right amongst CMs. I don't charge for parents' hols, but I know it's quite a loss of earnings for a CM, especially with so many TTO children. My TTO clients are contracted to pay for TTO, then take holidays as ad hoc. All-year-rounders get up to 4 weeks' equivalent where they don't pay if they are away. All within some Ts&Cs to stop it getting out of hand.

From listening to parents a lot, I'm well aware that one of their biggest gripes is (to paraphrase) "paying my CM to do nothing" and I don't see any point in practising the CMing equivalent of 'doing a Ratner'.

Sadly, human nature is such that you can give an inch and they want to take a mile (and the P as well, while they're at it.) Which is why I still get the odd moan from the occasional TTO parent, "but I booked Disneyland in term time to save money, and now I have to pay you while I'm away."

That said, I think some CMs are guilty of the same thought process. In particular, those who label clients as "cheeky" for booking their own holiday to coincide with the CMs so they don't have to pay because the CM is closed anyway. I once had this conversation with a pacey staffer who was adamant we were entitled to 4 weeks' pay holiday for ourselves, then every parent should also take their children out of the setting for an additional 4 weeks and pay us for that too. I fail to see how demanding parents pay us for 8 weeks of care they're not getting will make our service attractive.