first mindee - No payment

[leopardgirlx]

So i have had my first mindee last week. payment was due on friday 1st for the whole of may . Mum told me on monday she'd pay the invoice within a couple of days but i stated it wasnt due till friday . when thursday came i sent a polite text message reminding her that payment was due the next day (as we had agreed in contract as she forgets easily) messaged her friday midday , she said she was out and would sort when she got home 8pm.. messaged her at 9.30 pm. to which she replied she hasnt been paid .. i am using an online system and she STILL hasnt signed contracts and policies.. so i have told her if she doesnt i wont be collecting child tuesday (seem fair?) and i wondered what i should do regarding payment? i feel she is fobbing me off (she told me she gets paid 3 weekly from bursery) she is studying on tuesday do probably will say she cant phone finance then.. shall i say if im not paid by friday that i wont collect daughter from school?

i know it seems a bit pushy and harsh but im a single mum, and this is my business after all. and i know if im not firm in the beginning i might begin to be walked over :/ she pays from breakfast club through scholl and i should imagine they wouldnt tolerate non payment

please advise
x

[lollipop kid]

So i have had my first mindee last week. payment was due on friday 1st for the whole of may . Mum told me on monday she'd pay the invoice within a couple of days but i stated it wasnt due till friday . when thursday came i sent a polite text message reminding her that payment was due the next day (as we had agreed in contract as she forgets easily) messaged her friday midday , she said she was out and would sort when she got home 8pm.. messaged her at 9.30 pm. to which she replied she hasnt been paid .. i am using an online system and she STILL hasnt signed contracts and policies.. so i have told her if she doesnt i wont be collecting child tuesday (seem fair?) and i wondered what i should do regarding payment? i feel she is fobbing me off (she told me she gets paid 3 weekly from bursery) she is studying on tuesday do probably will say she cant phone finance then.. shall i say if im not paid by friday that i wont collect daughter from school?

i know it seems a bit pushy and harsh but im a single mum, and this is my business after all. and i know if im not firm in the beginning i might begin to be walked over :/ she pays from breakfast club through scholl and i should imagine they wouldnt tolerate non payment

please advise
x

As I see it, you've got a few choices. I would call PACEY legal team (or whoever your legal team is) regarding all of these first though:

1. Withdraw the contract offer from her and bill her for the amount owing, accompanied by a 14 day letter (PACEY can advise on wording) Then take her to the small claims court for the amount owing.

2. Give her a date to sign the contract and permissions by and bring her account up to date with you, BEFORE you do any more work (that is, picking up her child) otherwise the contract is withdrawn. Do not pick her child up until this is resolved.

3. Withdraw the contract offer from her and put this down to experience.

Going forwards, make a mental note to yourself to always have at least 4 weeks' deposit and 4 weeks' fees upfront, and all paperwork signed and completed before a child joins your setting. As I understand it, then legally, you shouldn't even be looking after the child without a signed contract and permissions.

Good luck,

L

[Lal]

I would contact her today and make it clear you won't be collecting on Tuesday unless you've had payment and contracts are signed. My MM contracts include permissions as well as money info. I would not be minding any child without signed permission for emergency medical treatment (which is on the MM child record). The contracts are their to protect you professionally, not just financially.

[bunyip]

So i have had my first mindee last week. payment was due on friday 1st for the whole of may . Mum told me on monday she'd pay the invoice within a couple of days but i stated it wasnt due till friday . when thursday came i sent a polite text message reminding her that payment was due the next day (as we had agreed in contract as she forgets easily) messaged her friday midday , she said she was out and would sort when she got home 8pm.. messaged her at 9.30 pm. to which she replied she hasnt been paid .. i am using an online system and she STILL hasnt signed contracts and policies.. so i have told her if she doesnt i wont be collecting child tuesday (seem fair?) and i wondered what i should do regarding payment? i feel she is fobbing me off (she told me she gets paid 3 weekly from bursery) she is studying on tuesday do probably will say she cant phone finance then.. shall i say if im not paid by friday that i wont collect daughter from school?

i know it seems a bit pushy and harsh but im a single mum, and this is my business after all. and i know if im not firm in the beginning i might begin to be walked over :/ she pays from breakfast club through scholl and i should imagine they wouldnt tolerate non payment

please advise
x

A few things jump out at me. I think these need considering before you can be 100% sure what to do next.

You say, "i have had my first mindee last week". Have you already commenced the care arrangement or do you just mean they've verbally agreed terms and not yet begun attending?

Has mum attempted to pay yet? It occurs to me that, over the bank holiday weekend, she could've done an online bank transfer on Friday evening (thinking she's met your deadline) but it wouldn't appear in your account until Tuesday.

Have you received any money at all yet? eg. A deposit?

You say "she STILL hasn't signed contracts and policies". Has she signed anything? If so, then what? Without a contract, there is no agreement for her to pay you, and no agreement for you to provide care. If she hasn't signed permissions, then you probably have no right to look after the child. If mum has not yet signed basic stuff like a contract, then I'd be wondering if she has bothered to sign consent at the school for you to collect (or maybe not even bothered to tell school.)

I can't be sure what to advise without knowing these details, but my gut feeling on the information provided is that I wouldn't be collecting the child unless mum acts fast and gets everything signed and everything paid - and this late in the game on a bank holiday weekend, I'd be thinking folding-cash or nothing.

If it transpires that you refuse to collect, I'd take the precaution of 'phoning school to tell them. Don't get into arguing a case, simply explain that you don't have an arrangement due to lack of consents/contract/breach of terms by parent (ie. non-payment). Don't leave the door open for mum and/or school to start spreading the lie that you simply forgot or couldn't be bothered to collect.

No, you are definitely not being harsh. Very sensible to begin as you mean to go on: too many people regard childcare as a right and paying for it as optional. Make it perfectly clear that how she gets her money is absolutely none of your concern. Making sure that you get paid is very much her concern, because you don't provide childcare unless and until you get paid.

[leopardgirlx]

Thank you all for your replies
ok so, we met around 3 weeks ago (after pre-reg) before certificate to see if mum and child wanted to use me. we then met the next week without child to discuss further.. i signed up to an online system where i have all contracts and invoices etc on it . i sent her her log in details which she claims she still hasn't received, then she said she couldn't view anything so i logged on using her details and i could see everything she needed to see. I agreed to pick her daughter up last monday from school and we would sort contracts / policies there. she informed me on that day that i was not required for the rest of the week (tuesday,wednesday,thursday or friday which was agreed the previous visit) i got her to 'sign' the system then asked her to log in and manually click on the contract and policies and 'sign' them.. which she has not still done.

she definitely has not paid. she is a UNI student and the NHS pays her living expenses and childcare costs too. she said she 'didn't fill out the form correctly' and required my registration number, but i had to chase her for an explanation. i said to her i have no interest (to be polite) nor is it my business who pays her what and when . i just have to make sure i am paid to meet my living expenses.

and i didn't think to do a deposit system because to be honest as i thought because my fee's were in advance no-one could catch me out (stupid me - i know)

i have told her i definitely WON'T be picking child up if she hasn't signed contracts and the policies, i just didn't want to seem like i was being out of order if i refused because of payment.. ive tried to be understanding but she knew weeks ago this was coming up and i was clear from the start that fee's were paid in advance..


hope this helps

[Mouse]

I would probably put it down to experience and walk away now. Students can be some of the worst clients. They just don't seem bothered about whether childcare works out or not. Obviously that doesn't apply to all students!

If parents can't even be bothered to do even the minimum amount asked of them at the beginning of a contract, it's usually a sign of things to come. If they don't take it seriously (often the case when it's not their own money they're using) you will find it very hard to work with them.

You have already given her several chances to get everything sorted out, so personally I wouldn't go any further with the contract. I would write her a letter (hand deliver if you can) saying that as she hasn't paid the fees and she hasn't complete any forms as requested, any agreement you had no longer stands. You wish to make it clear that you will not be collecting her daughter from school or providing any care for her. It is mum's responsibility to tell the uni that you are not providing care and you will confirm this with them as well. Include a bit about how much she owes you for the work you have done, saying that it needs to be paid immediately.

If mum really does want you to care for her child a letter like that should make her take it seriously and do everything she can to make sure she doesn't lose her care. If she doesn't get back in touch you know it probably wasn't going to work out anyway.

[lollipop kid]

Thank you all for your replies
ok so, we met around 3 weeks ago (after pre-reg) before certificate to see if mum and child wanted to use me. we then met the next week without child to discuss further.. i signed up to an online system where i have all contracts and invoices etc on it . i sent her her log in details which she claims she still hasn't received, then she said she couldn't view anything so i logged on using her details and i could see everything she needed to see. I agreed to pick her daughter up last monday from school and we would sort contracts / policies there. she informed me on that day that i was not required for the rest of the week (tuesday,wednesday,thursday or friday which was agreed the previous visit) i got her to 'sign' the system then asked her to log in and manually click on the contract and policies and 'sign' them.. which she has not still done.

she definitely has not paid. she is a UNI student and the NHS pays her living expenses and childcare costs too. she said she 'didn't fill out the form correctly' and required my registration number, but i had to chase her for an explanation. i said to her i have no interest (to be polite) nor is it my business who pays her what and when . i just have to make sure i am paid to meet my living expenses.

and i didn't think to do a deposit system because to be honest as i thought because my fee's were in advance no-one could catch me out (stupid me - i know)

i have told her i definitely WON'T be picking child up if she hasn't signed contracts and the policies, i just didn't want to seem like i was being out of order if i refused because of payment.. ive tried to be understanding but she knew weeks ago this was coming up and i was clear from the start that fee's were paid in advance..


hope this helps

Some students get extra funding to cover the cost of childcare IF they use a registered childminder. Perhaps this lady was only after your Ofsted number and had no intention of paying you anything, as she wants to just claim the extra money and have a friend or family member pick her child up?

I'd be careful of this kind of thing in future. If you know the Uni she is at, I would definitely tell them (but be careful of repercussions - e.g. this Mum making a complaint against you to Ofsted as you've spoiled her attempt at getting a gravy train out of this.)

Just tipping you the wink. This kind of fraud does go on, sadly.

All the best,

L

[leopardgirlx]

wow thanks lollipop kid.. i didn't know that.

if i was to ring them what would you advise i say / ask?

i was tempted to ring them and find out the way the work things?( do they need me to provide evidence etc) as a number of things she has said do not add up.. it says in the internet that they provide payment to her after she has paid childcare and need receipts. and on other links it says they do contact the childcare provider to confirm..
i was not planning on telling them who she was just getting general info.. But then i thought maybe its going against the point that i don't care who pays her, i just want her to pay me!

Thanks again, i really appreciate all the advise

[bunyip]

Thank you all for your replies
ok so, we met around 3 weeks ago (after pre-reg) before certificate to see if mum and child wanted to use me. we then met the next week without child to discuss further.. i signed up to an online system where i have all contracts and invoices etc on it . i sent her her log in details which she claims she still hasn't received, then she said she couldn't view anything so i logged on using her details and i could see everything she needed to see. I agreed to pick her daughter up last monday from school and we would sort contracts / policies there. she informed me on that day that i was not required for the rest of the week (tuesday,wednesday,thursday or friday which was agreed the previous visit) i got her to 'sign' the system then asked her to log in and manually click on the contract and policies and 'sign' them.. which she has not still done.

she definitely has not paid. she is a UNI student and the NHS pays her living expenses and childcare costs too. she said she 'didn't fill out the form correctly' and required my registration number, but i had to chase her for an explanation. i said to her i have no interest (to be polite) nor is it my business who pays her what and when . i just have to make sure i am paid to meet my living expenses.

and i didn't think to do a deposit system because to be honest as i thought because my fee's were in advance no-one could catch me out (stupid me - i know)

i have told her i definitely WON'T be picking child up if she hasn't signed contracts and the policies, i just didn't want to seem like i was being out of order if i refused because of payment.. ive tried to be understanding but she knew weeks ago this was coming up and i was clear from the start that fee's were paid in advance..


hope this helps

I'll declare my bias first: I'm a MOG and old technophobe.

I've no idea how these online systems work, but have to say I really don't like the sound of an online contract. It rather sounds as if you present her with the offer of a contract then she can sign it if and when she ever feels like it. Sounds all nice and convenient and all very modern, but I get the feeling the client gets all the convenience while the CM gets all the doubt and uncertainty. Am I near the mark? What happens if you leave the contract open and she logs in and 'signs' it 5 minutes before you're due to collect her DD from school? She then has a contract and you're in breach of it if you aren't there to collect.

It strikes me that you've already paid the price for this system. If you'd had a 'normal' contract, signed in advance, you could've held her to her original start date and would already be getting paid for last week. Instead, she's deferred the start date and you've lost all last week's earning potential.

The other problem is she can now sign the contract in her own home, etc. This may seem irrelevant but it almost certainly means mum has rights under the Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumer’s Home, Place of Work, etc. Regulations 2008. In summary, she has an automatic 2-week cooling-off period in which she can cancel the contract and get all her money back. You must give her written details of her right of cancellation. Failure to do so means:-

1. She has a continuous right to cancel without notice until you do so.
2. You commit a criminal offence.

Messy.

Mouse's point about people not valuing things they don't have to pay for (my paraphrase) is very pertinent. Like Lollipop, I'm very wary of student deals, especially third-party funding (even more so if the college is supposed to pay the CM directly.) I know some CMs find it to be regular and reliable income, but others have had severe problems. I was warned off them by an ad hoc client who works in a student finance office, who told me her manager is forever trying to find ways to not pay childcare settings.

I agree a deposit would be preferable. Personally I also just get payment in advance: at least that way I don't work for nothing, but a deposit gives the further security of preventing the client from walking away without the usual notice.

[lollipop kid]

wow thanks lollipop kid.. i didn't know that.

if i was to ring them what would you advise i say / ask?

i was tempted to ring them and find out the way the work things?( do they need me to provide evidence etc) as a number of things she has said do not add up.. it says in the internet that they provide payment to her after she has paid childcare and need receipts. and on other links it says they do contact the childcare provider to confirm..
i was not planning on telling them who she was just getting general info.. But then i thought maybe its going against the point that i don't care who pays her, i just want her to pay me!

Thanks again, i really appreciate all the advise

I'd wait a couple of weeks (see Bunyip's post). I'd say write to her first and withdraw the contract offer. (Then I would just phone the College to let them know that the lady has no contract for Childcare with you. This should put a stop to any further claims she makes. If the College says they need receipts from you, then she would be stuffed at this point anyway, unless she fakes something.)

Chalk it down to experience and move on. I don't give my Ofsted number to anyone in advance - they only get it when they sign my Contract as it appears on there. They sign the contract in my living room at the same time as completing all of the other paper work and paying their deposit and fees up front. I do contract meetings on the weekend so it can be a child-free time on both sides, as this bit can take a couple of hours. But given your current experience, if you start doing it this way, then I'm sure you'll find it time well-spent.

I hope this helps.

L

[Merlot]

I had a student once. She was only on a 9 week course and clueless about life, let alone me getting payment! She hadn't completed the paperwork correctly with the college but had met with me and signed all my paperwork. It was done through Sure Start so I was confident in getting my money. I had contacted the college who put me in touch with their finance. I was assured I was getting paid but the girl hadn't completed the paperwork. Long story short, the course finished before I had my money. I had to chase it up but was eventually paid. Took about 3 months in total. It was a total pain and the young girl didn't even want to do the course, let alone worry about me getting paid! I wouldn't bother with students again. They don't appreciate this is your earnings when they don't have to pay the bill.

btw, I have had someone after Ofsted numbers for tax credits. Downside is, they can look on Ofsted website if they want the information. Plus side is I occasionally phone tax credits to confirm who's on my books.

[lollipop kid]

I had a student once. She was only on a 9 week course and clueless about life, let alone me getting payment! She hadn't completed the paperwork correctly with the college but had met with me and signed all my paperwork. It was done through Sure Start so I was confident in getting my money. I had contacted the college who put me in touch with their finance. I was assured I was getting paid but the girl hadn't completed the paperwork. Long story short, the course finished before I had my money. I had to chase it up but was eventually paid. Took about 3 months in total. It was a total pain and the young girl didn't even want to do the course, let alone worry about me getting paid! I wouldn't bother with students again. They don't appreciate this is your earnings when they don't have to pay the bill.

btw, I have had someone after Ofsted numbers for tax credits. Downside is, they can look on Ofsted website if they want the information. Plus side is I occasionally phone tax credits to confirm who's on my books.

With you on that one, Merlot. I've had the tax credits one as well - then child leaves within one to two weeks. It's a good idea to phone every now and again. Just look out for any parent getting caught out, realising you've phoned and then making a bogus complaint to Ofsted (got the T-shirt!).

All the best,

L

[Kittycat]

So i have had my first mindee last week. payment was due on friday 1st for the whole of may . Mum told me on monday she'd pay the invoice within a couple of days but i stated it wasnt due till friday . when thursday came i sent a polite text message reminding her that payment was due the next day (as we had agreed in contract as she forgets easily) messaged her friday midday , she said she was out and would sort when she got home 8pm.. messaged her at 9.30 pm. to which she replied she hasnt been paid .. i am using an online system and she STILL hasnt signed contracts and policies.. so i have told her if she doesnt i wont be collecting child tuesday (seem fair?) and i wondered what i should do regarding payment? i feel she is fobbing me off (she told me she gets paid 3 weekly from bursery) she is studying on tuesday do probably will say she cant phone finance then.. shall i say if im not paid by friday that i wont collect daughter from school?

i know it seems a bit pushy and harsh but im a single mum, and this is my business after all. and i know if im not firm in the beginning i might begin to be walked over :/ she pays from breakfast club through scholl and i should imagine they wouldnt tolerate non payment

please advise


x

Where you are going wrong for a start is the contract, use paper, I would never use a online system and let them sign it on their own, before childcare even starts you should have given her your Policys to read over & then back to sign the contract together
Always as a future lesson payment in advance for the month ahead
no payment No childcare
Without a signed contract you can't take it anywhere to be honest

[agency12]

Hi leopard

I kind of concur with the comments, if mum has
not signed a contract then you have not got permission from the parent to look after that child, with all the legal implications that entails,
you may not be insured even..